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Author Topic: Altered Image Case  (Read 9111 times)

andersonoo7

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Altered Image Case
« on: June 06, 2013, 12:26:24 AM »
A company I have done work for received 'THE LETTER'. Appropriate step have been taken in terms of cease and desist. I'll admit, I was like everyone else that receives this letter, scared shipless. I did a small bit of research into the topic before calling Getty (which I know regret). Perhaps I mentioned some things I probably shouldn't have regarding my acquisition of the photo from Google, etc...

Anyway, they reduced their settlement offer from $780 to $525. Now, for the past couple of nights, I've been reading this site and its various resources in an effort to compile a better 'defense'. It turns out the image they claim I infringed upon is vastly different than the one from the website they claim is the same.

I may not have it down to a science the way some of you do, but here's my response to their $525 offer. What do you think?

Dear, Mr. Bieker,

Thank you for your quick response to our phone conversation we had June 3, 2013 (the text of which is attached to this letter). First, let me reiterate Fullmotion Physical Therapy’s most sincere apologies. Second, without admission of any guilt, the image in question was removed from the published web page, Fullmotion Physical Therapy’s servers, and local computer backups. Having said this and complied with your cease and desist demand in a timely manner, I had, quite honestly, hoped for a more sympathetic response in regard to your monetary settlement demand. In our conversation, I thought I had made it quite clear there was no intentional copyright infringement. I would have hoped you, as an employee of a company that claims to have the best interests of photographers (many of whom are small business owners), would understand the struggle small businesses encounter in doing business, one of them being the cost of high quality marketing materials, including a quality web presence. A simple cease and desist letter would have sufficed in this case.
   
Fullmotion Physical Therapy sincerely wishes to reach a mutual understanding on this case and put this behind it. With that in mind and the details I’m sure you took from our phone conversation; I humbly ask you to consider Fullmotion Physical Therapy’s settlement offer of $100.00 with no further obligation. The image you claim to represent, image number 10159398 appears in several places all over the internet and is even offered for sale on some websites, which is explicitly prohibited in the restrictions listed in the image details (see image below). Perhaps this is a better target for Getty’s resources.

(Image)
 
   Let me also point out the stark differences between the image in question and your catalog image number 10159398. First, the clouds in the sky of the image in question are very different than those in the image number 10159398. Second, the ground and water beneath the elephant and ball of the image in question are very different than those in the image number 10159398. Third, the beach ball the elephant appears to be balanced on is vastly different in the image in question and the image number 10159398. You can see these differences in the image to the right, which is taken from your initial letter to Fullmotion Physical Therapy. (Image)

   Fullmotion Physical Therapy’s feels its settlement offer is fair and reasonable based on the facts of the case, the time and effort involved in researching the case, and its desire to rectify any misunderstanding between itself and Getty Images.

(Begin text copied from email.)
FOR SETTLEMENT PURPOSES ONLY
RE: 1353983 - Fullmotion Physical Therapy
 
Dear Nick,
 
Thank you for your time on the telephone today. After careful consideration, Getty Images is willing to accept $525.00 as full and final settlement of the demand that was recently presented to Fullmotion Physical Therapy.  This offer is made conditionally and it will automatically be withdrawn if full payment is not postmarked by June 11, 2013.
 
Getty Images hopes that the added consideration given to reduce this settlement demonstrates our mindful attention to the circumstances; as such we encourage prompt payment of this settlement as offered.  The terms of this settlement offer shall be kept confidential, except as may be required by law.  Getty Images expressly reserves all rights and remedies available under copyright law.  Thank you again for your time to this matter.
 
Best regards,
 
D. Bieker

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2013, 06:11:36 AM »
Douglas Bieker from Getty Images Copyright Compliance Team is a scum sucking douche-nozzle, who will have no sympathy for you or your case...he most likely works on a shitty commission and is dependent on extracting as much cash from so called infringers. It could easily be a giraffe standing on it's head vs an elepahnt on a ball and he would still demand payment....welcome to the merry go round, known as Getty Images.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
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stinger

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2013, 09:00:44 AM »
What I do not understand is that, if the images are sooooo different, why are you offering any settlement at all?

You clearly must believe they are the same, or do you simply feel giving them $100 is worth it to get them off your back?  If that is the case, please send me your contact details as I too can use a free $100.  ;)

There is a chance that Douglas Bieker hasn't even looked at the images and that picscout may have made a mistake.

Or, did you or someone you know take the Getty image and modify it before publishing it?

andersonoo7

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2013, 10:46:05 AM »
What I do not understand is that, if the images are sooooo different, why are you offering any settlement at all?

You clearly must believe they are the same, or do you simply feel giving them $100 is worth it to get them off your back?  If that is the case, please send me your contact details as I too can use a free $100.  ;)

There is a chance that Douglas Bieker hasn't even looked at the images and that picscout may have made a mistake.

Or, did you or someone you know take the Getty image and modify it before publishing it?

The said elephant balancing on the ball is clearly the same elephant. So, if they do (doubtful) own any sort of rights to the image number 101...., then a portion of the image in question is the same. That is why I offer the $100 settlement to get them off my back.

No, I do not hand out $100 bills. Sorry, stinger. Someone else may have modified the image. Perhaps it was the Getty client themselves that modified a public domain photo and passed it on their own.

This letter has not yet been sent as I am currently out of ink in the printer. Any more advice on what to include or not would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 10:49:28 AM by andersonoo7 »

stinger

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2013, 03:27:25 PM »
I do not believe it matters what you say in the letter.  They are going to keep coming at you to try and get paid.  They will use tactics designed to scare you and get you emotional.  I suggest that any letters you send should be business-like and make it clear that you wish to get this matter sorted out, but you do not wish to be harassed. 

Think of it like this.  Any letter you write, if it is to have value for you, that value will be in showing a judge that you are not a common thief and wanted to get to the bottom of this.  I don't expect that it will go to court, but my 1.5 years on this forum lead me to the conclusion that most letters do not result in any real change in Getty's position or tactics.  So position yourself, in the extremely unlikely event that this does go to court, to show that you are reasonable and they are not.

I am not a lawyer, but that is how I would handle your situation if I found myself in it.

andersonoo7

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 09:11:19 PM »
Getty has shockingly denied my settlement offer of $100.  ;) And 'after some internal discussion' they have come to the conclusion they cannot accept the offer because it doesn't cover the cost of licensing the image and 'policing' the matter.

In doing more research for my response to this second letter, I found Getty offers two versions of the same image on its own website by two different artists. Now what? I'll ask for proof of original artist in order to make sure 'damages' go to the correct photographer. I know they will skirt the issue and not provide me with any information at all. With this discrepency at Getty itself, who's to say none of the 10 other derivatives I've found were the original artist?

Getty Images Search query for 'elephant balance':
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=creative&p=elephant+balance&assetType=image

Look for elephant balancing on one foot on beach ball; one on grass, the other on sand.

Getty's response to my $100.00 offer:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/152817095/1-3-Getty-Response-Redacted

And my response to them:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/152855281/1-4-Second-Letter-to-Getty
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 02:17:41 AM by andersonoo7 »

andersonoo7

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2013, 07:09:24 PM »
My 'due' date was 7/31/2013. I did not pay, but sent the letter above shortly (within days) of the post above. Have not heard back from them, but my 'case is not available for online payment.'

Does this mean anything or just that my 'due date' is past? Could it be that they'll no longer pursue me?

Anyone, any ideas?

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2013, 08:34:55 PM »
hard to say, but my bet says they are not done with you...get ready for a letter from asshat and seattle copyright troll Timothy B. McCormack.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

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Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2013, 09:23:08 PM »
The post about the two identical images occured when my comnputer died and I was waiting for a new one and I must have missed this when catching up after receiving my new one.

I have made a note of this and added it to my information, I find it very interesting as these are definitely the same elephant and Getty is always saying you can't even take part of the image yet we have two different artist listed claiming rights to the same picture.

Oscar if you read this I would like to hear your thoughts please.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2013, 09:52:49 PM »
Also that was a great response letter you sent to them! 8)
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

andersonoo7

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2013, 10:03:54 PM »
Robert, normally, I'd agree that the next step is the letter from the lawyer. However, I've not yet even received a threat of escalation.

Greg, thanks for the props. Hope you don't mind I stole your nomenclature for scribd. I'll be waiting for my extortion letter from you.  ;)

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2013, 10:14:07 PM »
Glad it was of use to you and hope you continue to fight and keep us posted.

Greg, thanks for the props. Hope you don't mind I stole your nomenclature for scribd. I'll be waiting for my extortion letter from you.  ;)
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Mulligan

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2013, 11:40:42 AM »
Robert, normally, I'd agree that the next step is the letter from the lawyer. However, I've not yet even received a threat of escalation.

Be patient. They like to time their threats so you're just at the point where you think, "Ah, that's the end of that BS... and then, pow, the next day you get a new letter."




Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2013, 03:26:46 PM »
Robert, normally, I'd agree that the next step is the letter from the lawyer. However, I've not yet even received a threat of escalation.

Be patient. They like to time their threats so you're just at the point where you think, "Ah, that's the end of that BS... and then, pow, the next day you get a new letter."

All in the hopes that when you recieve said letter you will shit your pants... Mulligan you're slipping!
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Altered Image Case
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2013, 11:54:16 AM »
It looks like both images might have been photoshopped from an original.  Perhaps they have permission from the original artists but I doubt it. This is a #gettyflubs issue in my opinion. The due dates are irrelevant.  But expect a Tim McCormack  letter in a month or so. If he writes you I would raise the two images issue directly with him and see if he responds to it.   

 

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