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Author Topic: Getty For sale  (Read 17573 times)

Couch_Potato

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Getty For sale
« on: July 06, 2012, 09:23:54 AM »
Apparently.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/04/us-getty-images-idUSBRE8621CZ20120704

Perhaps we could have a whip round and make a cheeky bid.

scraggy

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2012, 02:30:43 PM »
Wise move!

They are selling before the shit hits the fan! Their "business model" cannot continue unhindered for much longer. The new owners may have to clean up a lot of mess.
"Strategic abuse of intellectual property rights" has even been noticed by law professors in the USA . See , for example, the following quote from page 31 of the recent article ( THE RELATIONAL CONTINGENCY OF RIGHTS ) , that mentions Getty by name!

The authors are Gideon Parchomovsky ( Jr. Professor of Law, University of Pennsylvania Law School & Professor of Law, Bar Ilan University School of Law, Israel) and Alex Stein ( Professor of Law, Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law, Yeshiva University )

https://bspace.berkeley.edu/access/content/group/e675b947-6067-425e-adbf-10e8922547b9/03.%20Jan%2030_Alex%20Stein%20-%20The%20Relational%20Contingency%20of%20Rights/RCR_1_18_12.pdf

Quote
Importantly, the cost advantage enjoyed by owners of large copyright portfolios

has a profound effect on their primary behavior. First, it induces owners to create

and acquire large portfolios of copyrighted works. For instance, Getty Images

Inc. recently acquired Flickr’s entire collection of images. Following this

acquisition, Getty established an international network of enforcement agencies

and started asserting its rights against users of digital photos all over the world.87

This strategic move is consistent with our analysis, but it is not necessary

disconcerting. Second and much more troubling, certain corporations and

individual actors reportedly adopted a “business model” under which they wait

for certain works to become “viral,” or in ordinary parlance, enjoy wide

distribution over the internet. Works typically attain this status due to the fact that

initially they are distributed freely, often under permission from the original

creators. At this point, profit driven actors, typically corporations, acquire the

rights to the works and launch an aggressive enforcement attack against

unsuspecting internet users.88 The companies’ cost advantage in litigation secures

the attack’s success in virtually every case.89


SoylentGreen

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2012, 02:40:26 PM »
Interesting.  Sounds like Getty's a bit overvalued, though.
99 percent of the market demand will be for microstock products very soon.
Getty won't be able to sell much of its rights managed content at high prices.
In addition, Getty hasn't been successful in its court forays.
So, it's difficult for them to extort large ransoms under the phony guise of "infringement".

S.G.



Moe Hacken

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 04:19:53 PM »
Great post, scraggy! That's the most subtle definition of copyright trolling I've read to date. The quotes around "business model" seem somewhat snarky, yet it's a very polite description of how "certain corporations and individual actors" have picked up on this modus operandi.

It's also quite generous by stating that they wait until the work goes "viral". Of course there is no evidence to suggest unclean hands yet, so the analysis is quite measured and fair, as one would expect from distinguished law professors.

I find it very intriguing how they describe that the works attain the "viral" status "due to the fact that initially they are distributed freely, often under permission from the original creators."

This speaks to my suspicions about how Vincent Khoury Tylor's images could possibly be found in hundreds if not thousands of websites being offered as free wallpaper. The one person I have spoken to who posted a derivative work on her website based on one of his images told me she got the image from a royalty-free stock photography CD she purchased at a retail store some 10 years ago. She offered the derivative work as a free background image for years, unknowingly "seeding" for VKT.

Assuming this is true, the image could not have been included in a CD without VKT's blessing, and he probably got paid for it at that time. It may be that half his portfolio was included in the CD, which would explain why so many of his photos are so incredibly ubiquitous in the free wallpaper market. Most of the VKT images that are so commonly disseminated are at least 10 years old.

This line in particular fits Hawaiian Art Network LLC like a glove:

Quote
At this point, profit driven actors, typically corporations, acquire the rights to the works and launch an aggressive enforcement attack against unsuspecting internet users.

The same paper also makes this statement, which is pretty much the way I see it:

Quote
Although copyright law is supposed to balance the interests of copyright holders against those of users, numerous scholars have noted that the design of copyright law is slanted in favor of copyright holders.

On another note, S.G.'s comment is right on the money, so to speak. The price being asked for Getty is definitely high, which is why Bain Capital LLC is not showing interest. Private equity firms make money by buying troubled companies at low prices, then making them viable by cutting costs (usually firing half the staff), taking advantage of whatever support they can get from public sources, and then selling high. Bain Capital did not get so rich buying high from their competitors.

The price structure for Getty's stock photography approximates the costs of hiring top-shelf photographers to shoot custom work for a project. Why anyone would pay Getty instead of hiring a skilled photographer can only be explained by deadline pressure, a common ailment of the communications industry. When you need the shot at lightning speed in the age of instant communications, a service like Getty's would seem like a lifesaving resource, albeit one that will cost dearly.

Enter the competition pushing prices way down in the form of microstock companies. Getty refused to lower their price structures and instead tried to position themselves as a high-quality source. However, the demand for that level of photography dropped way below the level of commercial viability and they had to troll for money in order to monetize the company and get it ready for the selling block before it became obvious they can't survive in the flooded stock photography market we have today.

As S.G. mentions, they probably haven't made enough money trolling, and their model weakens with every failure. The time came to sell the ship before potential buyers realize it's taking water. At this point, the Getty brand is all about its glorious past. I doubt anyone will fork over 3.5-to-4 billion bucks for that portfolio. It will be interesting to see who, if anyone, would bite, and how low Hellman & Friedman LLC are willing to go.

I'd like to add that the timing is precious due to the class action in Israel, which could have a chilling effect on future trolling operations by Getty and the rest of the "corporations and individual actors" who have adopted their "business model."
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 04:30:16 PM by Moe Hacken »
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Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 05:59:22 PM »
I remember reading an article back in May about the possibility of Getty going public and being sold but I haven't really heard any more about it so thanks for the post and the update.

After reading the new article I think I'm going to expand my letter writing campaign to include the companies listed in the article as potential buyers. I'm going to let them know that they should look into Getty's current business model of demand letters, look into complaints filed with the Atty. Gen.'s office as well as stop by Eli or just do a simple Google search about the company that they are interested in buying and take a look at what pops up on the first page. Remind them as I'm sure that they know Getty already has a class-action lawsuit against them in Israel and that there's a movement growing in the states for the same thing. So unless they're looking to purchase this company to clean house they might want to consider abandoning ship because Getty should be renamed the Titanic and at this stage in the game the captain has just ordered more speed and they're heading blindly into the ice fields. If Getty wishes to continue pursuing their current business model I don't think it will be too long until they hit the iceberg.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

doggycase

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2012, 02:42:12 AM »
If I am the highest bidder and might officially acquire Getty Images as the new owner, I have one thing to do:

I'll call Undertaker from his coffin and bury this troll alive!

Soon enough, R.I.P. Getty Images!!!

stinger

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 10:01:49 AM »
Greg:

Great idea publicizing Getty's business model to potential buyers.  Here are two offshoot ideas for consideration:
  • Let's publicize the contact names and addresses of those potential buyers on ELI so we each can write letters talking not only about Getty's business model, but also our personal experience with the firm, what we think of it, etc.  Letting potential buyers know the myriad of dastardly things Getty has done to firm up it's position in the Troll business, and how we all feel about that.
  • Send a group settlement offer to Getty and their attorneys.  Something like, "If you offer to settle and hold harmless the below named individuals and companies from all all actions currently on the table including any alleged copyright violations, the individual group will refrain from publicizing your business practices with potential buyers of Getty Images.  We can include some of the write-ups we are contemplating for point 1 above.  I know that sounds somewhat extortion like, but it is certainly no worse than what they do.

What do you all think?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 10:11:23 AM by stinger »

Couch_Potato

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 10:42:09 AM »
The potential buyers are private equity firms. They would have already done sufficient research into Getty's activities and most private equity firms only care about profit, not ethics.

The one avenue I thought might be worth a look is checking their accounts with companies house and seeing if it listed how much of it's income was through settlements.

Only problem there is if they are approaching settlements as retrospective licences they may just list that as normal income which would include income from genuine sales.

It may be the case that a potential buyer may not be aware of how much of the income on Getty's accounts is through "retrospective licences" which is an unsustainable business model and open to legal challenge.

If you want to approach potential buyers in private equity approach it from the angle of their bottom line, not their ethical approach.

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 04:24:21 PM »
Stinger, I am actually running an experiment I came up with based on this idea but do not wish to discuss it just at this time as I have given Getty a deadline to respond to me. I will know one way or the by the 18th of this month and will make public my experiment as well as the results.

I am also currently compiling such a list of names and addresses in addition to the ones I already have to be used in such a letter writing campaign. Keep your fingers crossed and wish me luck and I'll let everyone know on the 18th.


Greg:

Great idea publicizing Getty's business model to potential buyers.  Here are two offshoot ideas for consideration:
  • Let's publicize the contact names and addresses of those potential buyers on ELI so we each can write letters talking not only about Getty's business model, but also our personal experience with the firm, what we think of it, etc.  Letting potential buyers know the myriad of dastardly things Getty has done to firm up it's position in the Troll business, and how we all feel about that.
  • Send a group settlement offer to Getty and their attorneys.  Something like, "If you offer to settle and hold harmless the below named individuals and companies from all all actions currently on the table including any alleged copyright violations, the individual group will refrain from publicizing your business practices with potential buyers of Getty Images.  We can include some of the write-ups we are contemplating for point 1 above.  I know that sounds somewhat extortion like, but it is certainly no worse than what they do.

What do you all think?
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 04:54:21 PM »
Couch_potato, while I agree with you that the private equity firms are driven by profit and I'm sure have reviewed Getty's financials I still think that they would have to stop and take notice if they started receiving an influx of angry letters in regards to company they are thinking of acquiring. They are going to be looking to invest their money in companies that can show the a return on their investment and a recently filed $12 million class-action lawsuit in Israel, articles about the possibility of a similar suit in the states, as much negative information about the company showing up on search engine results as other information and then combined with a flood of letters may actually see some results. I have read articles that say Getty is overvalued and with all of these things hitting it once these equity firms wish to continue with the purchase may end up reducing the offer hurting Getty even more.

The letter writing campaign may end up being nothing more than a little salt but a little salt in an open wound hurts like hell. And I'm going to continue to be that irritant to Getty until they back off.

The potential buyers are private equity firms. They would have already done sufficient research into Getty's activities and most private equity firms only care about profit, not ethics.

The one avenue I thought might be worth a look is checking their accounts with companies house and seeing if it listed how much of it's income was through settlements.

Only problem there is if they are approaching settlements as retrospective licences they may just list that as normal income which would include income from genuine sales.

It may be the case that a potential buyer may not be aware of how much of the income on Getty's accounts is through "retrospective licences" which is an unsustainable business model and open to legal challenge.

If you want to approach potential buyers in private equity approach it from the angle of their bottom line, not their ethical approach.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

Moe Hacken

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 11:51:29 PM »
Greg, nothing wrong with being the fly in Getty's ointment. I totally agree that any private equity firm is going to look at the purchase of Getty through an economic microscope inside a perfect ethical vacuum. That's what they do.

Their only concern is risk. Their only goal is profit.

Heightening the perception of risk at this delicate time is a very valid way to apply butthurt to the basterds who pioneered the "strategic litigation" and "extortion letter" business model. They're trying to dump the ship before it takes too much water. Their model must be failing or they wouldn't be looking to bail out. The present owners are also a private equity firm and no one could be more aware of the risk involved with Getty's current "value" than they are.

I think your letters could make a difference. Make a strong point and be specific when you tell potential buyers that Getty is a dinosaur at the shore of a massive tar pit. They're top heavy, fat, slow and stupid. They're about to become a fossil, and it's just not worth that much money for a stock photography portfolio that's worth pennies on the dollar due to vicious competition and a legal liability portfolio that grows with every class action likely to be filed against them.

Don't forget to mention PicScout could be challenged on constitutional grounds and lose virtually all of its productive value in the US market. They can figure out what the risk is. That's what they do.
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stinger

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 09:31:56 AM »
Greg, I like your salt in an open wound analogy.  To get the maximum effect, I always recommend rubbing the salt into the open wound with some extremely coarse sandpaper.

Safe to say, my fingers and toes are crossed.

Let's do this!

Couch_Potato

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2012, 11:39:49 AM »
Something I'm curious about that perhaps someone here could help with.

I've been searching for more information about Getty's potential sale and came across this website

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304708604577504923941988382.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

Nothing much of interest but out of slight boredom I read through the comments. The last comment mentioned that the picture in the article which is accredited to Getty Images is actually a public domain image and provide a link to http://www.lbjlibrary.org/collections/photo-archive.html

If you run a search there for Lyndon Johnson you'll find the image in question. Click it and it confirms the image is public domain and can be used free of charge.

Is it possible that Getty can own the commercial rights to the image but non commercial use is public domain?

Moe Hacken

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2012, 11:54:32 AM »
Excellent catch, Couch_Potato! However, a couple of things need to be checked out.

First, whether or not it's really in the Getty catalog. It could be an editorial error by the WSJ. Those things happen during deadline crunch time.

Another is whether or not Getty Images is offering licensing for the image as a rights-managed image, or just a "legal guarantee" for a public domain image in case a copyright owner shows up and sends an extortion letter.

I can't check on it at this time, but if someone else wants to follow up on it, it could be an interesting case study.
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Couch_Potato

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Re: Getty For sale
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2012, 11:59:54 AM »
I found it on the Getty site under the editorial images rather than creative images which means you can use them in editorials but not for advertisements.

Not sure about licensing but they do charge for the images use if you run it through their quote engine but not sure if that's just the legal guarantee. Leaving work now so can't check it myself until tomorrow, perhaps somebody else could.

 

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