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Author Topic: Publicly Shaming Trolls?  (Read 6626 times)

The-Gobbler

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Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« on: August 06, 2015, 02:41:53 PM »


As a publisher with a reasonably well read blog I feel empowered to shed some light on this copyright troll issue.  We had our own back and forth with a troll last year which I ended up (perhaps foolishly) settling with.  At any rate, I'd very much like to publish some of the email exchanges I had with these clowns as part of a series of articles simply as a way to illustrate their tactics, aggression, and expose their idea of ethics.  Basically I want to shame the industry for what it's worth.

I know a lot has been republished here despite troll's claims that such things are private and so on. Curious if there is any real risk in angering the troll post settlement here.  I'm guessing no, since I never signed anything promising to keep it private, but it would be helpful to hear best practices on this!

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2015, 03:29:00 PM »
i shame these fucktards on a regular basis over on copy-right.trolls.com, the more the merrier! be sure to drop a link here after you write your post!
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
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stinger

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2015, 03:58:35 PM »
You are welcome to take and use anything I have contributed to this site in your message.

luanne415

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2015, 07:55:20 PM »
Please feel free to shame the trolls. It's good for everyone involved.

Besides, if you didn't sign an NDA, the written word is boss.

If you wrote it and did it, then you gotta own it. It's just too bad for the troll  ::)

My first post on this great forum was dedicated to the Getty Images trolls and minions that included screenshots of their fucktard ways in doing "business"

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2015, 09:23:45 PM »
The letters/email were addressed to you, unless you signed a confidentiality agreement restricting the sharing of the correspondence then it is yours and you can do what you want with it.  I published all of mine.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Matthew Chan

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2015, 07:32:25 PM »
I encourage you to share information. If you are concerned about sharing certain information, then you can send people to ELI and the ELI Forums where there are many anonymous contributors of information.

There are many ways to skin a cat.  ELI specializes in being a vexatious force against those that try to take unfair advantage.

If it means anything, since Week 1 when ELI launched in 2008, I have adopted a philosophy of naming names and calling out people on all levels from the lowly clerks to lawyers to managers and executives.

In my view, anyone is fair game if they come after me. I take an aggressive view of those people and enemies who attack me and I believe in mowing down anyone associated with such actions.  I will use every legal tactic available to me.  For me, the First Amendment, search engines, and publicity are my friend and available to anyone being attacked / extorted.

As a publisher with a reasonably well read blog I feel empowered to shed some light on this copyright troll issue.  We had our own back and forth with a troll last year which I ended up (perhaps foolishly) settling with.  At any rate, I'd very much like to publish some of the email exchanges I had with these clowns as part of a series of articles simply as a way to illustrate their tactics, aggression, and expose their idea of ethics.  Basically I want to shame the industry for what it's worth.

I know a lot has been republished here despite troll's claims that such things are private and so on. Curious if there is any real risk in angering the troll post settlement here.  I'm guessing no, since I never signed anything promising to keep it private, but it would be helpful to hear best practices on this!

I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

UnfairlyTargeted

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2015, 07:05:52 PM »
I think now is a great time to re-shame the once very vocal troll Tom Schwabel.  A small timer trying to act like big bad Getty.  After my shaming of him last year he disappeared for a bit, not appearing in any forums to spew his garbage on how to sue, i mean steal from, people and not posting any more photos (mostly knocked off or possibly stolen photos) on his website, but he's back at it again.

I love this site, all of his potential "customers" and extortion targets find this site as his #2 hit.  I suspect that's why he went underground for a while.  He couldn't get anyone to respond to his stolen picture scams.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2015, 07:44:13 PM »
I think now is a great time to re-shame the once very vocal troll Tom Schwabel.  A small timer trying to act like big bad Getty.  After my shaming of him last year he disappeared for a bit, not appearing in any forums to spew his garbage on how to sue, i mean steal from, people and not posting any more photos (mostly knocked off or possibly stolen photos) on his website, but he's back at it again.

I love this site, all of his potential "customers" and extortion targets find this site as his #2 hit.  I suspect that's why he went underground for a while.  He couldn't get anyone to respond to his stolen picture scams.

yeah you really shamed him alright!!..all the while making yourself look like a complete idiot! wouldn't surprise me if the photographer just took a step back, collected some screen shots from your original ranting posts, and building a case against you.

For those that need a reminder: http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/tom-schwabel-copyright-equivalent-of-nigerian-scam/msg18442/#msg18442

it's not very often that we side with the trolls..
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

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UnfairlyTargeted

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2015, 08:36:28 PM »
I think it would be useful to have a look at his manifesto before you judge me as an idiot and him as a saint:
http://rebeccalatsonphotography.me/2011/12/26/copyrighting-your-photography-its-so-important/

I don't care if I look like an idiot, the point is to expose him and destroy his ability to extort others.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2015, 08:49:12 PM »
expose him for protecting his work?? my opinion stands..you continue to make a fool of yourself.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

UnfairlyTargeted

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2015, 01:53:21 AM »
No, he's not protecting his work.  Heck, it's not even his work.  He took a photo of a tree that 1000 other people took before him.  How does that make it his work?  There's a million pictures of it on the internet.  Most of them are freely downloadable from hundreds of sites.  None of his work is original.  It's all ripped off.  It's unfortunate if the law allows him to claim essentially copied work as his own.  He is operating because the laws are too f*cked up to put an end to his schemes.  He's certainly not operating to the spirit of the law and it's probably not the only unethical thing he's doing.  I won't go into it, but know that I have triggered investigations into him by several authorities for various illegal items.

Let's take apart his manifesto for a moment:

He goes into great detail on how to write a threatening letter to scare his victims into forking over hush money:
"It is amazing how the threat of a $150,000 lawsuit over a registered copyright brings compliance."
Wow, how is that not extortion?!  He talks of how to chalk the value of his work far beyond what it is worth.  His work is not top-shelf high-value exclusive stock yet he prices his work that way when it is common microstock.

He mentions how profitable the extortion scheme he documents can be.

He talks about choosing an amount that will "guarantee a settlement" and how he should have chosen a higher number.  It's clear he's NEVER going to court and NEVER intended to.  The way I see it, you are INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law.  Not you are innocent until Tom Schwabel says you are guilty and holds your website ransom.  Don't pay this scammer a single red cent!!!!  Report him on this forum and any others you can find.

Even if there was a crime committed, and I argue not since this work is NOT original, Schwabel's proposed penalty does not match the crime.  At most, anyone would owe him a couple of dollars.  His photos are unoriginal, clichéd, and common stuff.  No models, no high priced shoots, nothing.  Nothing that demands a $2000 price tag, or even $200.

I pity any poor slob who choses to work with this guy.  He'll probably eventually turn on them and extort them too.


Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2015, 08:31:45 AM »
Your time trolling on this forum has come to an end, take your non-sense rants elsewhere. It's very apparent you are ignorant about copyright, copyright law and seemingly just about everything you state.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

Matthew Chan

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2015, 01:54:04 PM »
Robert has a photographic memory. I have no recollection of the name Tom Schwabel. But I saw how Robert provided a link and I had to re-read to jog my memory. I cannot believe how much I wrote in that thread!

I have to give you credit for your participation because it is probably the first time in ELI history where I was compelled to the opposing position and DEFEND Carolyn Wright of Photo Attorney.

You take an extremist position that most of us at ELI cannot support. It is true we are very AGGRESSIVE attackers and defenders of many in the stock photo industry. However, we do so because they are often sloppy, indiscriminate, take unfair advantage, unreasonable, make bullshit arguments, and ask for too much money in their letters.

Every content owner has a right to defend and assert their ownership and copyright. They even have a right to legally threaten someone. But there is a right way and a wrong way.

You certainly used your ability to post and call out Tom Schwabel and his views but in many ways, your position actually only helped his position by making us here at ELI argue the opposing side. If the majority of people who visit ELI took your views, ELI would probably shut down as few of us could support your views.

95% of people we deal with feel bad/guilty about their infringements, are very apologetic, have no qualms about removing the images, willing to pay some minimal amount to dismiss the claim, and "learned their lesson" going forward.

But it is positions such as yours that hurt the other 95% because it forces the other side to paint with a heavy-handed broad brush.

Robert has not minced words where your position is concerned. I am being a bit more diplomatic because your participation has given ELI the opportunity to really shine and discard the false notion we are against copyright enforcement or we are anti-copyright.

We have never had to be so explicit in stating our positions against another ELI reader/participant before.

We are naming and shaming people for those that go too far and have a reputation for doing so.  Not simply because they are asserting ownership, copyright, and support copyright enforcement. 

Regarding my thoughts on Tom Schwabel's "manifesto", believe it or not, I agree with a significant portion of it although it is heavy-handed in certain sections. I like that he seems pragmatic especially when it comes to watermarking and registering copyrights.  It is perfectly acceptable to recommend that. I like that he discusses the pros and cons and the low-key approaches.

I don't believe Tom is "scamming" anyone. At worst, he might be heavy-handed in his enforcement. You, on the other hand, appear to have no ownership or culpability.

Honestly, you are helping Tom's position, not hurting it but you might not be able to see it from where you are sitting.

I think now is a great time to re-shame the once very vocal troll Tom Schwabel.  A small timer trying to act like big bad Getty.  After my shaming of him last year he disappeared for a bit, not appearing in any forums to spew his garbage on how to sue, i mean steal from, people and not posting any more photos (mostly knocked off or possibly stolen photos) on his website, but he's back at it again.

I love this site, all of his potential "customers" and extortion targets find this site as his #2 hit.  I suspect that's why he went underground for a while.  He couldn't get anyone to respond to his stolen picture scams.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Publicly Shaming Trolls?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2015, 03:12:25 PM »
I've had a change of heart and have un-banned "unfairly targeted", so be it if he/she wants to look like a complete asshole in his/her thinking..
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

 

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