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Author Topic: School tutor  (Read 9167 times)

Figaro14

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School tutor
« on: March 22, 2017, 09:01:41 AM »
I am a retired teacher and I tutor grade school and high school students in my retirement years.  I maintain a webpage for my students through the Vistaprint Company.  On February 16, 2017 I received in the mail what at first I thought was “junk mail” with a return address from the Getty Images Company in Seattle, Washington, but when I read it, I saw that had an old photo capture from about a year ago of the webpage I had first made.  This page was no longer in operation.  They had singled out one small photo and claimed the photo belonged to them and I was in violation of their copyright.   I became very concerned and contacted them at their email address.  I told them 1.) The page no longer appears.  2.)  I received all my images from Vistaprint’s image gallery – the gallery that Vistaprint makes available when you subscribe to its web services.  I received back an email stating that I owed GettyImages $815.00 for the use of the image.  This amount seemed unusually high for an unremarkable generic image of the back of a  public speaker, so I investigated their site and found that hundreds of similar images were for sale for anywhere from $12 to $33 per image.   I replied with a polite letter offering a settlement of $20 based on their costs.   The company told me that they would “make this all go away” if I bought one of their annual subscriptions at a cost of around $1000.  My other choice was to pay the $815 or they would sue me.  They declined my offer. 

I am aware that one can only ask the “fair market” price of anything and I asked why they would seem to think that this one image was worth 1000 times more than other similar images.   They did not explain their reasoning only that they owned the image and that’s what they charge.

I began to think that this sounded like an extortion racket.  Should I pay them or wait to see what happens?  This is very distressing! 

stinger

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2017, 09:31:06 AM »
There are lots of choices.  First off, don't panic.

Ignore any deadlines they give you.  They are phony anyway. 

Take the time to learn your options by delving into the Getty Forum here.  Only you can decide what you can stomach.

Cease all contact with them till you have decided your plan to deal with this.  They use what seems like normal negotiation communication to phish you out.  They have already learned that you are a real person and how to contact you.  They have an inkling that you might have a conscience or be legally averse.  Deal with them only on your terms.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2017, 11:01:47 AM »
If the image was indeed offered up via Vista Prints gallery for use, contact Vista Print, and have them deal with it directly for you.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

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Figaro14

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2017, 12:18:22 PM »
I did contact Vistaprint, and they told me to let GettyImages know that they have a license for all images they provide for their customers.   

I followed up with GettyImages when they rejected my offer to say that Vistaprint would be in contact with them and if they did not dismiss this immediately and continued to contact me, I would consider it harassment and take the appropriate action.

It probably will do nothing, but I've gone ahead and filed a complaint with the Washington Attorney General and with the Seattle Better Business Bureau.  Just an FYI:  GettyImages has an F RATING with the Better Business Bureau and dozens of complaints filed against them already according to the BBB page. 

I will hold tight and not contact GettyImages any longer.    I continue to find thousands (no exaggeration) of similar public speaker images that sell for $10 - $33.  I assume if this were to go to court, the issue of "fair market value" would be important to the case.  (Who in their right mind would pay $815 for a $12 image????)

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2017, 05:30:00 PM »
IF it went to court, I doubt the fair market value would even get mentioned...file for dismisal on the grounds that vista prints holds a license for their clients..end of story... this won't go anywhere, I'm inclined to think they won't even contact you again.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

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Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2017, 08:05:23 PM »
This is typical Getty Images, it doesn't matter what you say it is just about the money with Getty. I think you made a good choice in filing a complaint with the Washington state Attorney General's office and they will probably leave you alone after this. Either way I would just ignore them they are not going to take you to court over this especially when they know this was through Vista print.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

Matthew Chan

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2017, 03:49:35 AM »
Figaro14,

If your image came from Vistaprint and you have informed Getty Images of this, Getty has a duty to check to see if that image was, in fact, licensed to Vistaprint.

It would be very foolish for Getty to take any meaningful legal action while this cloud of uncertainty exists.  Getty automatically gets lots of negative publicity for lawsuits.  Adding the cloud of Vistaprint sourcing your image will make them look like schmucks.

But the lower ranks really don't care much as they now hide their names. But the lawyers who actually have to put their names on any lawsuit will probably think twice.

All in all, Getty generally doesn't want bad PR of this kind.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Figaro14

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2017, 10:53:33 PM »
Thanks for the reply!   I

I did get an email reply today from Washington's State Attorney General's office.  GettyImages replied to them regarding my complaint with what appears to be a standard legalese form letter defending their position.   I have contacted Vistaprint and have received a personal reply from their copyright office there.   Their rep asked for copies of the letter I received from GettyImages, and I supplied it.   I hope(!) that Vistaprint will follow up by providing proof of ownership of all their image gallery images that I can forward on to GettyImages.   I'm not planning on initiating any more correspondances with GettyImages.  In summary, I've told them the following:  I did not take an image from GettyImages.  Other than photos I personally took, all my images and graphics came from the Vistaprint gallery.   2.  I told them that the copy of my email page was over two years old, one of the first I ever created, and the image in question couldn't have been on the page for more than a few days before I updated my website and the image was no longer there.  3.  I told them I was not admitting any guilt, but if they really just wanted to settle the matter, I'd send them $20 based on comparable images they sold (I found over 100) for a price range of $12 - $33 just to avoid all this hassle.    I let them know I filed a complaint with the Seattle Better Business Bureau and with the State Attorney General because their letter sounded like extortion tactics -- telling me that all this would be dismissed provided I purchased one of their annual subscriptions to their service (at a cost of around $1,000! but they did offer me a "coupon."  If I acted on their offer within a few days ( I think they gave me 3 days to respond to the offer) they would discount the offer.   More and more I thought, this sounds like a total scam.   Some people have talked about the idea of cases going to court, but my understanding from the vast majority of people who have experienced this is that they simply take this to "collections."  I've never owed a penny in my entire life.  There must be a way to rebut an erroneous or spurious attempt to collect money from an individual?   I wouldn't think that a company can simply make a "claim" you owe them money and take this to collections.   If GettyImages does hand this over to an attorney, I plan to mail the attorney all my correspondences along with my Vistaprint letter that establishes that the images were the property of Vistaprint.   

stinger

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2017, 10:21:38 AM »
If the contacts or letter are from an attorney, I would contact the Washington State Bar Association.  You would need to point out to them that extortion violates the WSBA code of conduct.

Getty will respond with some boilerplate about advocating on their client's behalf and the WSBA will contact you indicating that if they don't hear back from you in 30 or 60 days, they will consider the matter closed.

This is where you press your case.  Give them the details and explain why this is extortion.  In my case, the Getty attorney had to get another attorney to represent them before the WSBA.  I never heard another word from Getty or their attorney about my case.

Figaro14

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2017, 02:09:37 PM »
Thanks for the advice.  So far, only two letters in the physical mail and at least 3 via email, all from GettyImages -- no attorney.  The second physical letter was triggered because I sent my reply letter arguing my case both in an email and through physical mail.   I now think that rather than send them what Vistaprint provides me, I'd simply wait to see if they do bump this up to some attorney.  I'm tired of getting these two page boilerplate replies from them.  Just as aside, GettyImages apparently don't care what their Better Business Bureau rating is.  They never responded to that complaint.  They hold an F rating with the BBB.   If GettyImages is trying to drum up business, this is certainly the wrong way to go about it.  I've also found numerous articles that documents that GettyImages has been sued on multiple occasions for their "Settlement Demand Letters"   Copyright lawyers have proven that GettyImages is using "unfair, deceptive schemes."  Would be nice if there was a class action suit against this company.

Matthew Chan

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 02:54:06 PM »
VistaPrint has something to lose. If it turns out that VistaPrint keeps getting customer complaints that they are being wrongfully pursued by Getty Images, it will become a PR nightmare and drive customers away in droves from VistaPrint.

The folks at VistaPrint better hope they see this thread and get on the stick to resolve whatever conflicts/disagreement/issues they might have with Getty Images.

I do think you are on the right track in seeing how VistaPrint responds. I would push the issue with them. In fact, you should warn them that you might consider writing a complaint that warns people if they use an image from VistaPrint, they might get nastiness from Getty Images.

That kind of accusation (IT MUST BE TRUE & SUPPORTED, THOUGH!) would spread like wildfire if VistaPrint doesn't do their part to get to the bottom of it.

But for now, you should let Getty know that you have been in contact with VistaPrint over this matter.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Figaro14

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2017, 10:57:43 AM »
Thanks Matthew!  My last email to GettyImages informed them that Vistaprint would be providing me with proof that they had the license to all images in their gallery, and the image in question came from their gallery.  I have heard nothing back from GettyImages since I sent that email.  I sent Vistaprint a copy of GettyImage's first letter to me with the image in question attached.  Vistaprint has provided a reply that the image belongs to them.  I'm now in wait and see mode.   I found your video you posted on Vimeo also very informative.   I know far more about GettyImages than I ever cared to know and am systematically building my defense file folder.   Every time I find another article about GettyImages practices or a lawsuit against them, I add it to the folder.  I assume that IF they turned this over to one of the attorneys that they retain, I would then send their attorney everything I have to counter this.  My letters from Vistaprint, etc.   But for now, I think I'd rather simply see if this has brought matters to a halt.  It seems like when I initiate letters to them, it only generates boilerplate replies from them about how they are well within their rights.   Thanks again.

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2017, 01:45:14 PM »
Getty is typically not overly litigious and given the fact that you appear to have done your part on asserting and pursuing VistaPrint over this matter, I do think even the dumbest Getty numbskull has to take pause.

I would be very surprised if this matter got escalated or pursued given VistaPrint's involvement in all this.

Over the years, we have heard from folks who got nasty letters because they bought website templates from third-party providers that supposedly licensed images for resale which caused a similar mess that you are going through.

And regarding "Getty's" exercising their so-called rights, the victim also has lots of rights and they hate that we discuss "home grown (and entirely legal) remedies" that go outside hiring a lawyer.

That is why we at ELI keep telling people "Get Educated" which does not always mean jumping to THEIR hoops.  You do what you must and move on. You don't let them jerk you around endlessly.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Figaro14

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2017, 10:28:01 AM »
I received a reply letter from the copyright department at Vistaprint that stated that they had a license for "all the images in their image gallery."  Since my website was a combination of my own pictures and generic pictures of school students that I had taken from Vistaprint, I decided to do a search using Microsoft Edge.  Something I did not realize you could do -- but a very handy tool!  I don't think you can search photos like this with other browsers.  But if you right click on the image and select "Ask Cortana" she will match the image with the exact image found elsewhere on the web.  If there is no match, she will provide images that come the closest to your image.  If your image is your own, she probably will reply that she cannot find anything on that image.  I found at least five other images that matched images in the Vistaprint gallery and were also the EXACT images that GettyImages claimed were theirs and listed for fairly high costs ($500+).  I immediately took the images down and wrote to Vistaprint about those as well.  So who owns these???  Vistaprint or Getty or both???

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Re: School tutor
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2017, 07:00:20 PM »
I don't imagine that Vistaprint actually "owns" any images themselves. I think they "buy" or "license" them for use for their customers. Again, that is my suspicion.

I received a reply letter from the copyright department at Vistaprint that stated that they had a license for "all the images in their image gallery."  Since my website was a combination of my own pictures and generic pictures of school students that I had taken from Vistaprint, I decided to do a search using Microsoft Edge.  Something I did not realize you could do -- but a very handy tool!  I don't think you can search photos like this with other browsers.  But if you right click on the image and select "Ask Cortana" she will match the image with the exact image found elsewhere on the web.  If there is no match, she will provide images that come the closest to your image.  If your image is your own, she probably will reply that she cannot find anything on that image.  I found at least five other images that matched images in the Vistaprint gallery and were also the EXACT images that GettyImages claimed were theirs and listed for fairly high costs ($500+).  I immediately took the images down and wrote to Vistaprint about those as well.  So who owns these???  Vistaprint or Getty or both???
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

 

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