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Author Topic: A new collection Agency working with getty  (Read 18423 times)

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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A new collection Agency working with getty
« on: July 07, 2012, 10:01:23 AM »
A user on my facebook group ( not the ELI FB page) submitted this on Thursday, I'm not in a position to do much research but wanted to share. Feel free to do some digging, or I'll get on it when I get back..Just another sleaze ball company that deserves some ELI love and free PR.

" I just had a letter from a company called 'Atradius Collections' on behalf of Getty. They are demanding payment again. The last letter i received prior to this was August 11th and that is a gap of 11months. Is that a bit weird? Is the company a legit company?"
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

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Moe Hacken

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2012, 11:16:39 AM »
That was easy given the company name. They're an international company that offers debt collection services:

http://www.atradiuscollections.com/products/debtcollections/debt-collections.html

Reading this page you can see what their debt collection services include:

Quote
Atradius Collections helps collect outstanding invoices and:

  • Improves the cash flow of your business
  • Relieves you of a time- and energy-consuming collection process
  • Maintains your sustainable relationship with your customer for future business

However, no matter how much lipstick Getty puts on it, the issue here is not a debt that is not being paid. What they're trying to do is claim a settlement amount for an alleged copyright infringement.

I think it would be safe to say your facebook friend can tell Atradius Collections they have no outstanding invoices with Getty and to stop sending letters or calling or trying to contact them in any other way because this matter is closed and if they insist, a complaint will be filed with the appropriate consumer protection agencies and even the BBB and FTC.

Of course, Atradius now qualifies for the distinction of being included in our trolling debt collection agency list. I find it quite interesting that they're an international outfit that covers most of Getty's target markets. I guess you could say they're a one-stop-shop for the Getty debt collection trolling approach.

By the way, can you believe the last point? "We're going to troll you on behalf of Getty, after which we can all still be friends!"
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 11:18:38 AM by Moe Hacken »
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Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2012, 12:05:35 PM »
I am curious Robert, did the person who received this letter reside in the United States or are they located elsewhere? Since this is an agency that collects debts and is an international company this could be just to Getty is using if the person resides outside of the United States and within one of the countries the business operates in.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2012, 12:32:47 PM »
From their website:

Quote
Facts and Figures
 

A global leader in business to business debt collections
> 350 Collections specialists worldwide provide customers with local expertise
Single point of contact for our customers
20 Offices worldwide
Part of the Atradius Group with 160 offices in 42 countries
We serve more than 12,000 customers
We handle more than 100,000 cases a year
One global process and IT platform for fast and efficient handling of your debt
Worldwide average success rate* of 55,84%
* Debt collection success rate = The value of collected payments expressed as a percentage of the total debt received, excluding insolvencies and withdrawals

here's a list of countries in which they maintain offices worldwide:

Belgium, Canada, Czech Republic, Mexico, Denmark, USA, France, Germany, Oceania, Hungary, Australia, Ireland, Italy, Asia, The Netherlands, Hong Kong, Poland, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

it says on their website that the company was originally founded in the Netherlands in 1925.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 08:15:47 PM by Greg Troy (KeepFighting) »
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2012, 07:53:07 PM »
I'm not sure where he is from, I did refer him here, and he responded that he would share with us...we'll see
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

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SoylentGreen

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2012, 08:24:31 PM »
Here's some interesting info.  It's from a commercial site, and I'm not affiliated with it.
Normally, I prefer not to post anything too commercial, but I think that the info is really worth reading in regard to debt collection in the United States.

"What if the person asking you for the money, "Bob", is a lawyer?
Under the FDCPA, even if Joe hires a lawyer or law firm to collect a debt from you, the lawyer or law firm is still considered a collector and must adhere to the FDCPA."


http://www.creditinfocenter.com/rebuild/debt_validation.shtml


In this case, I see "Bob" as being "Timothy McCormack" and "Joe" as "Getty Images".
As such, McCormack is acting as a "collection agency" and is subject to the FDCPA.


Now, get this:

"The Right to Validate Your Debt
Under the FDCPA, you are allowed to validate this debt, and the creditor (in this case, the collection agency) must show you proof that you owe the debt to the collection agency (not to the original creditor.)"

The specific section of the FDCPA:
FDCPA Section 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]
(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector."

"Plus, they must show proof positive that you owe them this debt. It's not enough to send you a computer-generated printout of the debt."

---


In conclusion, when Timothy McCormack has been "assigned" a phony debt by Getty images, he's acting as a "debt collector" plain and simple.
Because Timothy McCormack cannot Validate such a debt, he has 30 days to prove such debt upon written notice (he can't), and he must cease contacting you.

S.G.






Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2012, 08:48:07 PM »
That is indeed a very interesting article SG and a great find!  The implication of this is great indeed, if Timmy doesn't provide you with the proof, you can add the FTC to the list in addition to the attorney general, bar associations and BBB for your complaint letters.

Hopefully before long the only thing Timmy will be asking for is to know if you want to Biggie size that. :) :)

Again, great find SG!
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Moe Hacken

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2012, 10:34:38 PM »
Good find, S.G. The fine distinction is whether the troll approaches one with a legal claim or attempts to present one with an invoice for a debt one has not incurred. If it's the latter, then the troll is a debt collector no matter what other job he may pretend to hold.

If the claim is in the form of a legal claim for copyright infringement, I would still demand proof that the party enforcing the copyright indeed has the legal right to enforce it, and that should include the author's information. "We'll show you during discovery" is just ridiculous. I don't think any reasonable judge would fault one for not writing a check without any proof being shown.
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Moe Hacken

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2012, 11:22:21 PM »
In reading the article that scraggy posted on the thread about class actions against the porn trolls, one of the complaints filed made a very interesting point.

If the troll is attempting to extort money through the telephone and has no right to collect a debt or settle a lawsuit, they are committing wire fraud. This is item 27 of the facts in the complaint:

Quote
18 USC. 1343 makes it unlawful to use wire transmissions in a scheme or artifice to attempt to fraudulently obtain money from another.

This is on page 7 of the following complaint filed against some California porn trolls:

http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/uploadedFiles/Reuters_Content/2012/07_-_July/barkervcolliins--complaint.pdf

It sounds to me like anyone who calls on the phone claiming to be collecting a debt better have the right to do so or they're exposing themselves to a complaint for wire fraud.

So Timmy should be VERY careful calling anyone attempting to "collect on a debt." I wonder if wire transmissions include contact by email as well.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 11:40:12 PM by Moe Hacken »
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SoylentGreen

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2012, 11:37:13 PM »
Good discussion.  There's certainly a distinction between a "legal demand" and a "debt collection".
However, I think that one needs to look closely at what McCormack is actually doing.
The problem for him is that he's sending literally hundreds of these letters out.  But, he does no actual litigation in regard to these.
He sends letters and makes phone calls trying to get money for years until the limitation expires.

Additionally, these same cases are then "assigned" or "sold" to collection agencies.
This really blurs the line between a "legal demand" and a "collection".
I think that Getty's made a big mistake by doing this.

I feel that McCormack is actually in the "collection" business, regardless of how he words it.  Other people may think so too. 
If he's essentially doing the same thing as a collection agency, the FDCPA may be interested.
Here's a thought experiment; try running what's essentially a collection agency, but abuse the rules and use the excuse "I didn't say 'collection agency' or 'debt' anywhere.
You'd be put out of business, lawyer or not.  I'm pretty sure that the litmus test for this is not just "wording" in the letters.  It's what a person is actually "doing".
Now we know why he's worried about his phone calls being recorded.  I totally get it now.
He better be really careful.

S.G.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 12:09:38 AM by SoylentGreen »

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2012, 11:07:12 AM »
Great find, great discussion..for every letter the copyright cow Timothy Mccormack sends out, we can now send out like 5 complaints! His sphincter is probably so worn out from puckering at this point, he's probably got himself a butt plug....well actually he may have already had one of those.....just say'in
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2012, 11:55:02 AM »
Glad to see you posting again Robert we've missed you and there's even more places you can send letters to than that! My current list of letters of I have for Getty consist of the Washington State Atty. Gen.'s office, the Ohio State Atty. Gen.'s office (since they sent their letters to me across state lines to where I do business and Ohio's laws are much more defined and put up with less of the crap that Getty tries to pull than the Washington state laws), the Washington State BBB, be Ohio State BBB, the senator and congressman for my district as well as their Ohio counterparts and of course the office of the president of the United States. Since it is an election year I thought what the heck, I would send out the last batch letters appropriately modified to reflect how Getty is hiding behind copyright law and using extortionist practices to inflict harm on individuals and small businesses trying to recover in these economic times. I tell them that a simple Google search in addition to looking at the Eli forms will show that this is widespread and affecting many people and ask that this be looked into with the possibility of Senate and Congressional hearings to make Getty come in and account for themselves. And I let them know that this issue as a voting business person is very dear to my heart as I am affected by it.

Of course now I can add to this the list of potential buyers for Getty and send letters to them as well as I mentioned earlier.

And I am really hoping that Timmy will send me a letter as I would enjoy sending complaint letters to all of the above mentioned places in addition to the Washington, Idaho and Oregon State Bar associations. Come on Timmy I'm waiting, I'm starting to get Robert I twitch and my finger is hovering over the print button ;).

I am ready and prepared to give serious butthurt to Getty and anyone that allies themselves with them. I think Eli should adopt the old Civil War flag of the rattlesnake coiled up ready to strike with the slogan underneath it saying Don't Tread On Me :)

Great find, great discussion..for every letter the copyright cow Timothy Mccormack sends out, we can now send out like 5 complaints! His sphincter is probably so worn out from puckering at this point, he's probably got himself a butt plug....well actually he may have already had one of those.....just say'in
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

Moe Hacken

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2012, 12:54:01 PM »
Quote
I am ready and prepared to give serious butthurt to Getty and anyone that allies themselves with them. I think Eli should adopt the old Civil War flag of the rattlesnake coiled up ready to strike with the slogan underneath it saying Don't Tread On Me

... or we'll "thread" on YOU!  8)
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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2012, 03:18:14 PM »
I like that one even better Moe! :)

Quote
I am ready and prepared to give serious butthurt to Getty and anyone that allies themselves with them. I think Eli should adopt the old Civil War flag of the rattlesnake coiled up ready to strike with the slogan underneath it saying Don't Tread On Me

... or we'll "thread" on YOU!  8)
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

Moe Hacken

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Re: A new collection Agency working with getty
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2012, 03:35:11 PM »
Can't wait for Buddhapi to talk about Timmy's butthurt on the air!  ;D
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