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Author Topic: An Experiment Against Getty  (Read 94867 times)

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #105 on: August 29, 2012, 09:58:39 PM »
As promised here are links to the two most recent letters I have received. The first is from the Washington State Atty. Gen.'s office and basically states that they have done everything they can do at this time.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/104353537/2-3-Response-From-Washington-State-AG   

The next letter is the reply I received from the Ohio State Atty. Gen.'s office after they initially declining to get involved I sent the follow-up letter and now they are stating they will contact Getty images.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/104353754/4-3-Response-From-Ohio-Atty-Gen
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 07:15:23 PM by Greg Troy (KeepFighting) »
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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stinger

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #106 on: September 10, 2012, 11:36:48 AM »
Today I received another letter back from my state senator.  It included a copy of an email from Pamela J. Russell, Legislative Counsel for the Library of Congress.  The library acknowledged having received my letter (which the senator's office had forwarded to them) and forwarding of it to the Copyright Office.

They indicate that they are "not in a position to provide legal advice" to me.  But they also did read the letter as they state "He is concerned that Getty and law firms are citing, and perhaps abusing, copyright laws in their efforts to collect money from individuals and small businesses that wish to avoid nuisance suits."  And they acknowledge that I "...appear to be seeking a legislative solution."

So "the beat goes on . . ."  Let the paperwork shuffling continue, and let's hope enough people in the Copyright Office have heard enough complaints about this issue that they will take some positive action.

I encourage you all to contact your representatives about this issue.

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #107 on: September 10, 2012, 08:50:05 PM »
@Stinger,

That is great news! Would you be willing to share the contact information and address of who you corresponded with at the Library of Congress as I did not send the letter to them with my original series of complaint letters. If I can get that information I would be happy to send a letter to them as well so that we can work on getting the number up to a point where they will take action.

Again great work and keep fighting!
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

stinger

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #108 on: September 11, 2012, 09:12:10 AM »
Greg, I didn't actually send my letter to the library of Congress, my Senator's people did.  But I did get a copy of an email from:

Pamela J. Russell
Legislative Counsel
Congressional Relations Office
Library of Congress
202.707.0026
prus@loc.gov

Her email said that she was forwarding my letter to the Copyright Office for their information.  So she might be a great place to start.

Hope that helps.

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #109 on: September 11, 2012, 09:31:40 AM »
Perfect, I will get a letter together and my info this weekend and send it out on Monday.  Thanks!
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Oscar Michelen

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #110 on: September 11, 2012, 06:34:11 PM »
Not surprised at the Washington AG's response with a form letter Greg, but"Keep Fighting!"  It is important that the Copyright Office receive some feedback from folks who are hit with trolling letters as they are undoubtedly getting hit with a wave of communication and suggestions from the other side's lobbyists.

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #111 on: September 17, 2012, 08:22:51 PM »
Just a quick update for everyone, today I received a letter from the Ohio State Atty. Gen.'s office stating that they are still awaiting a response from Getty to my complaint with their office.

I wonder if Getty is going to send the same form letter response as they sent to all the other agencies I've complain to them about or if they are revamping it since they know I send a follow-up letter ripping them apart for not addressing the issues I brought up, a couple of out right lies and the major typos where they have my company name wrong as well as the amount they are claiming. I will let everyone know how Getty responds to this complaint.

I had incredibly busy weekend and was not able to get my packet together to send off to the Library of Congress's legislative Council that Stinger was able to provide but should have that finished up and off in the mail in just a few days and as always will make the letter as well as any responses available on my  Scribd account.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #112 on: September 17, 2012, 08:38:10 PM »
Just a quick update for everyone, today I received a letter from the Ohio State Atty. Gen.'s office stating that they are still awaiting a response from Getty to my complaint with their office.

I wonder if Getty is going to send the same form letter response as they sent to all the other agencies I've complain to them about or if they are revamping it since they know I send a follow-up letter ripping them apart for not addressing the issues I brought up, a couple of out right lies and the major typos where they have my company name wrong as well as the amount they are claiming. I will let everyone know how Getty responds to this complaint.

I had incredibly busy weekend and was not able to get my packet together to send off to the Library of Congress's legislative Council that Stinger was able to provide but should have that finished up and off in the mail in just a few days and as always will make the letter as well as any responses available on my  Scribd account.

I have a feeling you will hear nothing but crickets from them from this point on..they have to many other soft targets and low hanging fruit to take advantage of...
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

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Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #113 on: September 18, 2012, 12:19:47 PM »
I would have thought that Getty would not just ignore a complaint filed with the AG, unless they are thinking that since there is not the volume of complaints filed with the Ohio AG as with the WA AG they will never reach the tipping point triggering an investigation.

Just a quick update for everyone, today I received a letter from the Ohio State Atty. Gen.'s office stating that they are still awaiting a response from Getty to my complaint with their office.

I wonder if Getty is going to send the same form letter response as they sent to all the other agencies I've complain to them about or if they are revamping it since they know I send a follow-up letter ripping them apart for not addressing the issues I brought up, a couple of out right lies and the major typos where they have my company name wrong as well as the amount they are claiming. I will let everyone know how Getty responds to this complaint.

I had incredibly busy weekend and was not able to get my packet together to send off to the Library of Congress's legislative Council that Stinger was able to provide but should have that finished up and off in the mail in just a few days and as always will make the letter as well as any responses available on my  Scribd account.

I have a feeling you will hear nothing but crickets from them from this point on..they have to many other soft targets and low hanging fruit to take advantage of...
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #114 on: October 01, 2012, 10:28:43 PM »
Today I received a letter from the Ohio State Atty. Gen.’s office in response to my complaint against Getty images. One thing I found interesting in reading over Getty’s response which shows to me that they actually do read our forums as well as my posts. I have been blasting them for sending out there form letter time after time in getting the name of my company wrong as well as the amount they are claiming against me as well as other errors in their letter. This new letter while based on the framework of their standard form letter response has been modified and corrected. Besides getting my company name right and the amounts they are claiming one of the issues I was nailing them on was they continually stated that I had found the image in question through a Google in Internet search. While this paragraph was left intact they did stick an additional sentence on the front of it correctly stating that I found it on a website where was offered for free but the rest of the paragraph is exactly the same as it was before.

They are still claiming that they cannot provide me with proof due to confidentiality agreements between themselves and their artists yet they still forget to mention the fact that I had offered to sign a confidentiality agreement binding me not to discuss or disclose any of the information except for the purposes of trying to settle in their response to this was that it would take too much time and cost too much money to provide me with the proof.

A copy of the Atty. Gen.’s letter and Getty’s response may be found here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/108649883/4-4-Getty-Response-to-Ohio-Atty-Gen-Complaint

And my reply countering their arguments and requesting to be added to the file may be found here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/108652664/4-5-Reponse-to-Gettys-Reply-to-Ohio-AG-Complaint-Redacted

I sincerely hope that other extortion letter recipients will use the examples I have provided and join in the fight sending out as many complaint letters as possible because together we can make a difference and I truly believe in the long run between recent court decisions, rulings and other agencies starting to take notice change will come. Stay strong and keep fighting!
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

stinger

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #115 on: October 02, 2012, 09:04:16 AM »
Great letter Greg.  You lay out your case quite clearly and provide lots of detail in the links.

It's interesting how with a little time and organization, the arguments of the people on the ELI forums get stronger, while Getty just appears to jabber around the same old BS.

OK, maybe they do read this forum and have cleaned up a couple of things, but really, if they wanted to stop unauthorized use of their images, they would be much farther down that road today than they are.  They are just in it for the Trolling money.  I wonder if there is a way to discern how much revenue they raise in trolling versus legitimate licensing?

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #116 on: October 02, 2012, 07:03:43 PM »
Thank you for the kind words Stinger.

As far as determining the revenue I think it would be rather hard since Getty is a private company and not required to release financials like a publicly traded company. I have searched quite extensively for their financial records and can only find them posted back before they went private after that there is nothing. The only hint I have as to the revenue that they make from their extortion demand letters is that 2009 Los Angeles times articles where Lisa Wilmer states that they catch approximately 42,000 cases of cha-ching infringement a year. If we take into consideration the range of what Getty's considers to quallify as their pound of flesh it seem to be on average between $850 and $1250, so let's average that to an even $1000, that leaves Getty with the potential earnings of $42 million. I would imagine with the use of Pic-Scout now they have even more.

I do not know if they send letters to the majority of the pictures they find as I'm sure some are licensed and I seriously doubt if they send their extortion demand letters to large companies with legal staff that can defend themselves or even sue Getty, these companies probably get a C&D letter if anything. I'll tell you a figure I would be interested in finding out is what is the actual percentage that knuckle under and pay Getty.


Great letter Greg.  You lay out your case quite clearly and provide lots of detail in the links.

It's interesting how with a little time and organization, the arguments of the people on the ELI forums get stronger, while Getty just appears to jabber around the same old BS.

OK, maybe they do read this forum and have cleaned up a couple of things, but really, if they wanted to stop unauthorized use of their images, they would be much farther down that road today than they are.  They are just in it for the Trolling money.  I wonder if there is a way to discern how much revenue they raise in trolling versus legitimate licensing?
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #117 on: October 03, 2012, 11:56:24 AM »
Even if Getty were not a private company is anyone here even sure how they would reflect in their accounts?

Jerry Witt (mcfilms)

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #118 on: October 03, 2012, 01:59:44 PM »
Greg, I didn't hold out much hope for contacting the state AG's. And I know some people on here were even more pessimistic, considering any interaction with government agencies a complete waste of time. But I must say this "Experiment" is proving to be quite effective in raising awareness. Of course it yields the added bonus of putting a bee in the Getty bonnet.

Good work!
Although I may be a super-genius, I am not a lawyer. So take my scribblings for what they are worth and get a real lawyer for real legal advice. But if you want media and design advice, please visit Motion City at http://motioncity.com.

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« Reply #119 on: October 03, 2012, 10:10:41 PM »
Thanks Jerry! It has been a very interesting experiment and I have learned quite a bit from it. This experiment was designed so that I could learn how the different agencies worked, what results I could expect to receive from my letters as well as trying to determine how far up the letters would seem to go. I still advocate for letter recipients to send out complaint letters as the more that are received the sooner we will hit the tipping point where action may be taken.

I now have a new enhanced packet which contains much more relevant information and packs a considerably bigger punch ready to go should Getty or any representative of Getty like Timmy be foolish enough to contact me again. Without revealing too much information or tipping my hand I will say one of the issues that I discovered during my experiment is that the complaint letters don't seem to get into the hands of the people who can actually do anything about it. I also question the filing system and organization of some of the agencies such as the Washington state Atty. Gen.'s office. When Robert sent his request for copies of all the complaints filed against Getty it took nearly 3 months for him to receive it, if all the information was together in one Getty complaint file it would not have taken that long. This begs the question how do they know how many complaints are on file if they have them scattered all over the place. One of the major differences with my new packet is I have correlated a lot of this information to show how many different complaints there are with the different agencies in addition to recent court rulings and cases lending credence to my contention that what Getty is doing is abusing the copyright law and practicing what I consider to be legalized extortion.

I also believe I now have a way of delivering these packets directly into the hands to the main people of several agencies and congressional committees bypassing the hordes of overworked and well-meaning underlings who are doing the very best job they can but keep this information from moving up the chain of command where it can make a difference.

So for me the experiment is over and I am ready to begin the real fight, I am just waiting for Getty to provoke the next round where much like Gen. Maximus I intend to unleash hell and will be much more than a bee in the Getty bonnet.

At my signal, unleash hell....




Greg, I didn't hold out much hope for contacting the state AG's. And I know some people on here were even more pessimistic, considering any interaction with government agencies a complete waste of time. But I must say this "Experiment" is proving to be quite effective in raising awareness. Of course it yields the added bonus of putting a bee in the Getty bonnet.

Good work!
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

 

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