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Author Topic: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?  (Read 8196 times)

Moe Hacken

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Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« on: June 29, 2012, 11:46:36 AM »
While comparing the different definitions of "royalty-free" provided by different vendors, I found something on iStockphoto that blew my mind: They offer ... COPYRIGHT TROLL INSURANCE!

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Every royalty-free file licensed on iStockphoto includes a free Legal Guarantee. This is our promise that content, used within the terms of the license agreement, will not infringe any copyright, moral right, trademark or other intellectual property right or violate any right of privacy or publicity.

If you receive a threatened or actual claim that your use of iStockphoto content (used within the terms of the license agreement) is infringing any rights mentioned above, notify us of that claim and, with your consent, we will defend you and be responsible for your damages and expenses up to $10,000.

Wait a minute. We've seen people get trolled for more than $10,000 for a single image. Don't worry. For a little extra cash, you can buy peace of mind with the iStockphoto EXTENDED Copyright Insurace Plan!

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If you need a little extra peace of mind from iStockphoto, the Extended Legal Guarantee increases iStockphoto's responsibility for your damages and expenses up to $250,000. This Extended Legal Guarantee comes free on any file purchased from the Vetta Collection or Agency Collection, and can be added to any other file outside of those collections.

There is no financial cap to iStockphoto’s liability under the Pump Audio Content License Agreement.

You can license (or purchase) an Extended License when you first download content or anytime afterwards. Please note, when purchasing the Extended License at a later date, you will be required to re-license the file.

If you need to ask, the extended plans are not cheap. I'm flabbergasted that they will sell you an image and admit that you can STILL get trolled for it and you would need to get protection (or even extended protection) for the image you licensed from THEM!

Now here's a scenario to consider: You buy a Standard License image from iStockphoto, figuring you don't need to pay the extra cash to be covered for more than $10,000, then parent company Getty sends you a letter demanding $20,000 for the infringement.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, this is the craziest thing I've read about licensing from a stock photo company in my life. See if you get the same notion from reading this page:

http://www.istockphoto.com/help/licenses

If this is the case, I see a very ugly conflict of interest in the scenario where Getty Images claims you infringed by using an image you licensed from iStockphoto. Let's not forget that Getty Images owns iStockphoto.
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SoylentGreen

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2012, 12:02:25 PM »
The Getty Images brand has offered something like this for some time.
There's a prior discussion on the forum.

Actually, this "insurance" isn't enough to cover some of the latest extortion demands.
So, it's actually a method of limiting their liability, while making it seems as if they're offering sufficient "protection".

S.G.


lucia

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2012, 12:17:06 PM »
I think the plan looks reasonable in some ways. Consider car insurance.  If someone claims you are at fault in an accident, your insurance will pay if you are at fault. But they will dispute the claim if they think you are not at fault.  I suspect if Getty sends you a letter and you have something from IPhoto, IPhoto will request stuff from Getty just as anyone should. This puts a buffer between an inexperienced photo user and Getty.   Getty knows it can't win much beyond actual damages and minimum statutory damages from an inexperience photo user who bought a license that turned out to be flawed.  No one in the world could consider any subsequent copyright violation "willful".

I'd leave it to Oscar to explain what would happen if you bought a license from IPhoto, and Getty sued and won damages from you. Maybe you could sue IPhoto for your damages even if they didn't provide this guarantee? I'm not going to speculate.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 01:07:10 PM by lucia »

Moe Hacken

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2012, 12:42:46 PM »
I understand that iStockphoto is attempting to limit their liability. To me, that's Strike One. If I buy a license from them, why should I be liable for a copyright infringement committed by them? I understand that's how the law may work. I don't agree it SHOULD be like that.

If Getty, the PARENT COMPANY of iStockphoto, hits ME with a copyright insurance claim, I'm supposed to believe iStockphoto is going to do their best to defend ME? They're trying to limit their liability in the first place! Strike Two.

Now look at the price structure. Almost worth taking the chance. Strike Three, you're out, iStockphoto AND Getty.

I'm going back to Fotolia or better yet, hiring the photographer and/or taking my own pictures. The "work for hire" contract will protect me from the photographer, and I control my own copyrighted images.

The real injury here is the insult to our intelligence as consumers.
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lucia

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2012, 01:11:54 PM »
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If Getty, the PARENT COMPANY of iStockphoto, hits ME with a copyright insurance claim, I'm supposed to believe iStockphoto is going to do their best to defend ME? They're trying to limit their liability in the first place! Strike Two.
If they didn't, your later suit to make iStockphoto cover your loses based could be pretty funny.

I don't see how iStockphoto offering a 'guarantee' would necessarily shield them from a suit that alleges their product caused you harm by not being fit for the purpose it was sold for. The entire purpose of the license is to prevent you from being found guilty of copyright infringement. If child company sells you a license and then their parent company  sues you for a flawed license... that looks really, really bad for those two companies.   That would start to look an awful lot like some sort of 'scheme'.

SoylentGreen

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2012, 02:19:50 PM »
Here's a link to a prior discussion.
I always refer to older discussions when possible because many of these were quite in-depth, and Oscar had more participation at that time.
http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/getty-images-gets-a-taste-of-its-own-medicine/

Additionally, Buddhapi posted a link to an article discussing Getty's insurance program:
http://www.fastmediamagazine.com/blog/2010/05/17/getty-images-lauches-stockphotorights-com/

The thing that people need to keep in mind is that if there's a legal dispute, 10k won't even cover your legal costs.
If you can get Getty/iStock to settle the dispute for less than that, then it might be ok.

S.G.


Moe Hacken

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2012, 02:44:20 PM »
lucia, I understand what you're saying, but I don't have a budget to play lawsuit musical chairs, nor do most consumers. Of course I could sue anyone for any kind of "injury" caused to me by their flakiness, lack of diligence, or outright corruption. They would defend themselves by saying "those were the terms you agreed to." My point is that I would NEVER agree to such ridiculous terms.

Besides, I don't think Getty or iStockphoto or any of their trolls worry nearly enough about looking bad. We have to club them on the head really hard to make them back off just a little bit, then they turn around and do it again when they think no one's looking.

S.G., thanks for the old links. I'll be sure to read those posts carefully. You're absolutely right that a $10,000 "guarantee" is a joke when you look at what it really costs to take the trolls to court or defend oneself from them.

It seems this "insurance" is another part of the trolling scheme that has been left aside for a while, and I'm interested in how the insurance trolls are involved in the loop that makes the free markets a mine field for the consumers.
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Moe Hacken

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2012, 03:55:03 PM »
Strike Four:

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Q: Are there any reasons why legal protection might not be granted if a claim arises?

A: Usually certain conditions need to be met for the supplier to provide legal protection to a customer if a claim arises. These will be laid out in the terms and conditions of the supplier’s license agreement. For example, the customer may need to notify the supplier of the claim within a certain timeframe and customers must be in compliance with the terms of the license agreement for the legal protection to be offered.

Source: http://www.stockphotorights.com/faq/

As if the consumer needed any more reasons not to buy from Getty Images or their underling stock photo outlets, a subtle warning about their built-in escape clauses hidden deep in the FAQs of Getty's own "informational resource" website, Stockphotorights.com.
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Mulligan

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2012, 04:38:42 PM »
As with most insurance, the policy bottomline is this:

We won't pay a dime for any claim until you've fought us for days, weeks, and months because somewhere in the fine print we'll have an out that makes you responsible for the claim and not us.

I've learned this after dealing with insurance companies for over forty years now, and I've yet to deal with a company that actually paid fully on a legitimate claim without disputing it in one degree or another.

anakin

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2012, 05:38:19 AM »
Basically Getty is saying: Buy our insurance, and when we do harass you over the legality of your photos, we will then settle for a measly $500 for your legal photos, instead of the normal $1000+ we normally extort.

Let's not forget that Getty Images owns iStockphoto.
I'm not forgetting that is for sure. I used to buy photos from istock. Now i'm not after being harassed by Getty. I guess that would be a problem for them if they were in the photo business instead of primarily the extortion business.


Moe Hacken

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2012, 01:03:27 PM »
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I'm not forgetting that is for sure. I used to buy photos from istock. Now i'm not after being harassed by Getty. I guess that would be a problem for them if they were in the photo business instead of primarily the extortion business.

anakin, that's very interesting. The image you're being harassed for is a Getty image, not an iStock image, right?
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anakin

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Re: Copyright Troll Insurance ... from iStockphoto?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2012, 07:36:06 PM »
The image you're being harassed for is a Getty image, not an iStock image, right?
Yeah.. just saying since Getty owns Istockphoto then the whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth, enough for me to avoid both of them.

 

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