ExtortionLetterInfo Forums
ELI Forums => Getty Images Letter Forum => Topic started by: Matthew Chan on May 10, 2012, 12:51:40 PM
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I hate to splash cold water on your ideas but ELI has greater challenges than attempt those grand goals right now. It doesn't mean we can't work towards them but it will likely be baby steps.
Every year since ELI has started, there is always a question whether Oscar or I would continue on to support ELI or shut it down. This self-questioning has happened at least twice a year.
Technically, I (my business) own the ELI website. By that association, ELI is technically part of a "for-profit corporation". Although, as a practical matter, ELI has been and continues to be a time-bleed for me. What that means is that even though money comes in from Oscar's law firm contributions, volunteer ELI Contributions, and ELI Support Calls, I still end up in the hole every month vs. the crazy time and effort I put in. That is one reason I have been ruthless and sensitive about newbies calling or emailing me for free time. It has gotten a little better only recently because buddhapi and mcfilms volunteer their time and a lot of important ELI infrastructure is now well-established.
Because a good chunk of my business is real-estate related, the ongoing recession puts pressures on my business. ELI was born and created out of necessity during the Great Recession to help defend myself in addition to helping others. However, that need has since long passed and we are on a different and much larger mission. The financial pressures for ELI has been there almost from the beginning because of the time commitment.
Until my other businesses (real estate management, publishing, Internet income) improves substantially or I suddenly become rich, ELI will always be under financial pressure to support and sustain itself. Oscar has been a huge motivator and contributor to ensure ELI's continued existence and survival but ultimately support has to come from the ELI community and those who benefit from it.
I think anyone who visits ELI knows no one is subjected to an onslaught of sales pitches or a hard-sell. We do a gentle soft-sell through occasional and passive mentions.
Late 2011/early 2012, Oscar and I had a come-to-Jesus meeting about ELI and how it would fit in our respective businesses and personal lives. WE both agreed ELI was a great success in creating goodwill and appreciation in the world. But Oscar and I agreed, neither one of us wanted ELI to be a non-profit charity service where we simply gave of ourselves endlessly. If Oscar and I were retired or became rich so we didn't have to work anymore, it might be a different story. But that isn't the case. Both Oscar and I have businesses we must manage and contribute to. And we both have challenges in finding ways to fit and integrate ELI's agenda into our existing for-profit businesses.
Obviously, we heavily rely on free or inexpensive technology services such as Wordpress, Scribd, Youtube, Vimeo, Facebook, Twitter, SMF Forum, web hosting, and various Internet services and tools to make things happen, maximize our efficiency, and expand our presence without spending huge amounts of money.
Oscar and I lend our respective talents, expertise, and reputations to ELI. (Oscar with his immensely important legal skills, writing, and talent. Me with my publishing, media, web presence/web marketing, writing, and technology background.)
Buddhapi and mcfilms are obvious assets and valuable forum volunteers. Buddhapi has not only contributed his time but he helps pay PACER fees that I would have to pay. Buddhapi puts in LOTS of time behind the scenes doing follow-up research for me and advising me. The general public has no idea how much time Buddhapi puts in working with me behind the scenes. People only see his public posts (which are a considerable number in themselves). In that regard, Buddhapi is like Oscar and I. He takes a good chunk of time out of his business and personal life to put into ELI.
For example, I have struggled to get by without a professional proofreader/editor and a graphic artist. I have refused to pay for those services to support ELI. So, ELI gets by with a simple, unsophisticated look depending heavily on text or simple graphics and self-edited text. But ELI could be so much more if we had those talents available to us.
No one is killing themselves to volunteer for those important roles. ELI Contributions and ELI Support Calls are sporadic. When the Getty Images Special Report is released, that will be another potential source of revenue to support ELI. But who knows how many people will buy it since we give so much good information for free anyway.
Quite frankly, Oscar and I have an interest in helping and contributing but not to the degree of sacrificing ourselves or our businesses. ELI must support itself.
For example, after 5 years of being online, I am shutting down CobraCollectionScam.com. It was a project that I funded and put a ton of time in years ago to help on a local business community issue. I really should have shut it down a couple years back because it wasn't doing anything for me except be a drain on me. So, 2 weeks ago, I moved all the content to ELI to preserve and archive the research done. CobraCollectionScam.com will be dead in a few weeks when the domain expires in June.
The last few years, I have shutdown and sold off a couple of old websites that no longer supported my business. They served its purpose until they became time sucks and a liability to me.
I believe ELI has a limited existence simply because I don't know if I want to be involved with this the rest of my life but who knows. Come June 2012, ELI will be 4 years old. Oscar and I agreed to continue ELI until the end of 2012. We should be able to make 5 years. In November/December 2012, Oscar and I will have another meeting and reflect on 2012 results and how we feel going into 2013.
It feels a bit strange to think how ELI could be around 10 years. The first 5 years would have been a huge journey unto itself. Who knows what the next 5 years would bring? Will copyright trolling continue to be a hot issue or will things finally cool off? No one can say although I think copyright trolling will continue to be alive and well the next couple years at the very least.
So there you have it. You had an admirable suggestion but I threw in a big ice bucket of reality on the ideas. Hope that didn't offend you. LOL. But I have to call it as I see it.
Ultimately, ELI's future and continued existence relies on support from the ELI community.
In terms of changing our tactics to meet their changing tactics, I am wondering if ELI has ever tried to organize a Public Relations campaign to make the world aware of these tactics before people are caught.
I am thinking things like making available:
- lists of publications where people can tell their story - of how they were baited into a mistake
- sample letters, editorial pieces, etc. to help people tell their story
- ways to lobby politicians to change DMCA to put an end to Trolls behavior
- a blue print for what each Troll victim can do to make the world aware and help change it.
The publications or the process may be slightly different in Canada or Europe than it is in the U.S., but PR is PR everywhere. The first step in solving our problem is making the world aware that it is going on and ANGRY about it.
Are the Trolls so large that they will quash publication of our stories at the national, state, and local level? Or, might we gain a foothold somewhere and turn this into a Right/Wrong issue that people can get behind?
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The great thing about a community is that any one person can find a particular area of interest and focus on it.
My focus was, "Lets stop doing business with these troll companies and their affiliates until they change their business practices." So every chance I get I mention other options beyond Getty and Masterfile. I have convinced about a half dozen clients to stop using istockphoto and Getty images and switch to Pond5. I have spoken at several L.A.-area user group meet-ups about the practice of copyright trolls and what you can do to protect yourself. I'm sure to make it clear who these "bad actors" are and to suggest alternatives.
I also created and maintain a list of sites that claim to offer public domain or free-to-use images here at http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/list-of-public-domain-stock-footage-companies/. Although some feel these sites don't indemnify you if someone claims you are infringing on their image, I would point out that this is the same case with most (if not all) microstock companies.
Certainly better public relation tools would be a welcome addition. I'm sure if you put together great content, Matt can help you get it published. I guess we are all familiar with Nike's slogan by now...
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I think that ELI and the team have done a stellar job here.
The quality is first-rate, and I don't think that we'd have better results if people were actually paid to do the job.
Often, we don't get enough kudos for what we do, regardless of our career.
I once worked in a busy factory; I didn't get any feedback from the boss, so I asked if I was doing "ok".
He said, "well, I'm not having to talk to you, am I?". So, that's how it often goes.
Matt's taken on a lot. However, I'm of the opinion that while Matt facilitates the dissemination of information/moderates, the actual "fight" must come from the current victims of extortion letters.
The only way to make a dent in copyright trolling in the near term is for people to stop paying when they really don't have to.
That's the "fight"; stop paying, all this trolling will become unprofitable, and it'll go away.
There's something that I'd really like say... if you're not being sued, and the troll won't (or can't) prove their claim, I wouldn't pay.
Lawsuits are very rare indeed. If you do get sued, and you cannot fight, you can make a settlement at that time.
Most of the new contributors to the forum are asking if they should write a letter and what to put in it. I think that we've largely come to an agreement on here about writing letters and what they should say.
I feel that going over the same topic again and again is quite time consuming for the team. We could write up some guidelines and point new contributors in that direction.
In the future, Matt's book will be the place to go for in-depth learning about the issues.
I think that the team has spelled out what needs to be done many times.
Perhaps, it's time to concentrate more on significant developments and news?
I can offer proofreading/editorial services for free. I've worked as a tech writer/desktop publisher for several years for actual print and electronic publishing.
In addition, I have some significant talent in the graphics world, which I'd also be pleased to offer for free.
Please feel free to ask anytime, and I'd be pleased to further help with the effort!!
S.G.
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I hate to splash cold water on your ideas but ELI has greater challenges than attempt those grand goals right now. It doesn't mean we can't work towards them but it will likely be baby steps.
Every year since ELI has started, there is always a question whether Oscar or I would continue on to support ELI or shut it down. This self-questioning has happened at least twice a year.
Technically, I (my business) own the ELI website. By that association, ELI is technically part of a "for-profit corporation". Although, as a practical matter, ELI has been and continues to be a time-bleed for me. What that means is that even though money comes in from Oscar's law firm contributions, volunteer ELI Contributions, and ELI Support Calls, I still end up in the hole every month vs. the crazy time and effort I put in. That is one reason I have been ruthless and sensitive about newbies calling or emailing me for free time. It has gotten a little better only recently because buddhapi and mcfilms volunteer their time and a lot of important ELI infrastructure is now well-established.
Because a good chunk of my business is real-estate related, the ongoing recession puts pressures on my business. ELI was born and created out of necessity during the Great Recession to help defend myself in addition to helping others. However, that need has since long passed and we are on a different and much larger mission. The financial pressures for ELI has been there almost from the beginning because of the time commitment.
Until my other businesses (real estate management, publishing, Internet income) improves substantially or I suddenly become rich, ELI will always be under financial pressure to support and sustain itself. Oscar has been a huge motivator and contributor to ensure ELI's continued existence and survival but ultimately support has to come from the ELI community and those who benefit from it.
I think anyone who visits ELI knows no one is subjected to an onslaught of sales pitches or a hard-sell. We do a gentle soft-sell through occasional and passive mentions.
Late 2011/early 2012, Oscar and I had a come-to-Jesus meeting about ELI and how it would fit in our respective businesses and personal lives. WE both agreed ELI was a great success in creating goodwill and appreciation in the world. But Oscar and I agreed, neither one of us wanted ELI to be a non-profit charity service where we simply gave of ourselves endlessly. If Oscar and I were retired or became rich so we didn't have to work anymore, it might be a different story. But that isn't the case. Both Oscar and I have businesses we must manage and contribute to. And we both have challenges in finding ways to fit and integrate ELI's agenda into our existing for-profit businesses.
Obviously, we heavily rely on free or inexpensive technology services such as Wordpress, Scribd, Youtube, Vimeo, Facebook, Twitter, SMF Forum, web hosting, and various Internet services and tools to make things happen, maximize our efficiency, and expand our presence without spending huge amounts of money.
Oscar and I lend our respective talents, expertise, and reputations to ELI. (Oscar with his immensely important legal skills, writing, and talent. Me with my publishing, media, web presence/web marketing, writing, and technology background.)
Buddhapi and mcfilms are obvious assets and valuable forum volunteers. Buddhapi has not only contributed his time but he helps pay PACER fees that I would have to pay. Buddhapi puts in LOTS of time behind the scenes doing follow-up research for me and advising me. The general public has no idea how much time Buddhapi puts in working with me behind the scenes. People only see his public posts (which are a considerable number in themselves). In that regard, Buddhapi is like Oscar and I. He takes a good chunk of time out of his business and personal life to put into ELI.
For example, I have struggled to get by without a professional proofreader/editor and a graphic artist. I have refused to pay for those services to support ELI. So, ELI gets by with a simple, unsophisticated look depending heavily on text or simple graphics and self-edited text. But ELI could be so much more if we had those talents available to us.
No one is killing themselves to volunteer for those important roles. ELI Contributions and ELI Support Calls are sporadic. When the Getty Images Special Report is released, that will be another potential source of revenue to support ELI. But who knows how many people will buy it since we give so much good information for free anyway.
Quite frankly, Oscar and I have an interest in helping and contributing but not to the degree of sacrificing ourselves or our businesses. ELI must support itself.
For example, after 5 years of being online, I am shutting down CobraCollectionScam.com. It was a project that I funded and put a ton of time in years ago to help on a local business community issue. I really should have shut it down a couple years back because it wasn't doing anything for me except be a drain on me. So, 2 weeks ago, I moved all the content to ELI to preserve and archive the research done. CobraCollectionScam.com will be dead in a few weeks when the domain expires in June.
The last few years, I have shutdown and sold off a couple of old websites that no longer supported my business. They served its purpose until they became time sucks and a liability to me.
I believe ELI has a limited existence simply because I don't know if I want to be involved with this the rest of my life but who knows. Come June 2012, ELI will be 4 years old. Oscar and I agreed to continue ELI until the end of 2012. We should be able to make 5 years. In November/December 2012, Oscar and I will have another meeting and reflect on 2012 results and how we feel going into 2013.
It feels a bit strange to think how ELI could be around 10 years. The first 5 years would have been a huge journey unto itself. Who knows what the next 5 years would bring? Will copyright trolling continue to be a hot issue or will things finally cool off? No one can say although I think copyright trolling will continue to be alive and well the next couple years at the very least.
So there you have it. You had an admirable suggestion but I threw in a big ice bucket of reality on the ideas. Hope that didn't offend you. LOL. But I have to call it as I see it.
Ultimately, ELI's future and continued existence relies on support from the ELI community.
In terms of changing our tactics to meet their changing tactics, I am wondering if ELI has ever tried to organize a Public Relations campaign to make the world aware of these tactics before people are caught.
I am thinking things like making available:
- lists of publications where people can tell their story - of how they were baited into a mistake
- sample letters, editorial pieces, etc. to help people tell their story
- ways to lobby politicians to change DMCA to put an end to Trolls behavior
- a blue print for what each Troll victim can do to make the world aware and help change it.
The publications or the process may be slightly different in Canada or Europe than it is in the U.S., but PR is PR everywhere. The first step in solving our problem is making the world aware that it is going on and ANGRY about it.
Are the Trolls so large that they will quash publication of our stories at the national, state, and local level? Or, might we gain a foothold somewhere and turn this into a Right/Wrong issue that people can get behind?
Matthew, this very same text would make a good "About Us" or "ELI 101" text. Perhaps we can help you assemble an FAQ page for newbies like myself who come in pumped on a huge fear rush and start spouting ideas that have been discussed thoroughly in the forum. There was at least one post I remember that laid out the answers to some of the most common questions we newbies are going to be asking, for example:
Is this for real or is this some kind of phishing nonsense? Can they really drag me into court for $xx,xxx.xx over x image(s)? Can they come after me if I modified the image a lot?
You get the picture. This FAQ page could be used as a requirement to subscribe to the Forum, kind of like a "Forum Rules" introduction portal. This is a good place to emphasize that there are hundreds of posts with all kinds of information, and to suggest using the Google search bar for any specific question before posting it to the group.
This could avoid a lot of redundant aggravation. Matthew and Oscar's time need to be protected from becoming the emotional buffer portal for newbies in a state of shock. Matthew's excellent post about the choice to be rational is very inspiring and it could be part of the Newbie FAQ Required Reading, added to the request for an email. That's not asking a lot for all this free advice at all.
I think fundraising is also in order. We're talking about a cause that is very crucial to everyone in this industry. These people could be killing their own industry and may cause extensive damage to the commercial arts in general.
So here are some questions for the group. Is it okay to go "social media-eval" on them and start alerting our entire Facebook friend army about this, asking for donations in no uncertain terms? I know plenty of people in the creative and entertainment industries who would be outraged at this kind of abuse and would be very likely to pitch in. Is it okay to click on that "Like" button under the posts, put it on our Wall, and tell people to give until it hurts and also warn them to take down all that stuff they're uploading recklessly?
At this time I have more time than money to contribute, but I'm more than willing to contribute as much as I can of either.
So with your permission, I can dedicate some time to getting people to send ELI some PayPal love.
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Personally I would love to see the social media aspect ramped up in any way shape or form, the biggest problem is that most people are reluctant to "come out", thus using the share like button on the bottom of the posts doesn't get used as much as it could, but by all means feel free to share. I spread the word at every opportunity I get, whether it be with cliens, potential clients, IT people, whomever. There is only so much we can do on our own, that as one of the reasons I decided to become more vocal..
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I posted the home page on my FB wall with a call for support and specifically donations. Let's see what kind of response we get. I'll keep working the networking on a one-to-one basis as well.
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I'm a newcomer but I appreciate this site and have sent in a small donation ($100). However, at the end of the process it gave me an error:
The system cannot find the file specified.
on domain mcssl.com.
Please comfirm this domain is legit to even be in your process (I used the donate now link at bottom left of forum), and make sure you get the money. Then you may want to get this fixed.
Further - I own a website design company and would be willing to donate design or hosting services ongoing.
Thanks for everything. I also retained Oscar today.
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Right on, Adam. If I can help you in any way please let me know.
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I was stunned with your ELI contribution. I believe it is the single largest ELI contribution by anyone in ELI's short history. Thanks so much. It is greatly appreciated. Normally, a $50 ELI Contribution gets you a 30-minute support call. You obviously get a lot more for being so generous. You get to jump to the front of the line here.
As a result of your contribution, I will be putting out more information as to the the behind-the-scene support resources ELI utilizes and some of its direct and indirect costs. Some people might be surprised.
I revamped all the Paypal buttons and configurations. I finally implemented a new "subscription contribution" feature that was suggested to me late last year. (I am sometimes slow with some good suggestions to my own detriment.)
Again, you have my gratitude for your contribution. Give me a shout and let's look at your case. You earned it.
I'm a newcomer but I appreciate this site and have sent in a small donation ($100). However, at the end of the process it gave me an error:
The system cannot find the file specified.
on domain mcssl.com.
Please comfirm this domain is legit to even be in your process (I used the donate now link at bottom left of forum), and make sure you get the money. Then you may want to get this fixed.
Further - I own a website design company and would be willing to donate design or hosting services ongoing.
Thanks for everything. I also retained Oscar today.
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SG,
Lots of points I want to directly acknowledge here.
First, thanks for the kind words and your ongoing support and contributions. You are part of the extended ELI Defense Team even though I don't know who you are to this day. :-)
Second, fortunately I don't need lots of kudos to stay motivated. But I am practically minded. I tend to think talk is cheap after a certain point. People say thanks and say they are grateful but that only goes so far. I am not singling anyone out but I do understand why the legal community is not beating down the doors to help them because the community at large really don't always support ELI in ways that help.
People who submit new extortion letters help because it expands our knowledge base. Buddhapi hasn't submitted a cent to me (and he's tried a few times but I have to yell at him I won't take contributions from him!) but he has become my day-to-day right-hand on many ELI operational aspects and being extended eyes and ears which has been a huge help. Like with Oscar's time, talent and expertise, ELI couldn't come close to affording the time and talent buddhapi gives.
Mcfilms offers his name, story, reputation, and very thoughtful views and insights which helps ELI also.
People who knowledgeably answer and comments on questions and issues of "the ELI way" how Oscar and I operate, that helps a lot. People step up in various ways which has been great. The financial piece is the one that struggles a lot but has slowly improved because of reasons I discussed already.
Third, you are right regarding the people taking on the fight. I learned the hard way last year there are people who want ME to fight for them and then complain they don't get the results they want. That is why I feel no sympathy for people who have no spine or can't get it together when all the resources are at hand to help them win. Some choose to be victims and settle. There is nothing anyone can do to help them. They could have paid Oscar far less, solved the problem, and be free to speak out. But instead they pay $500+ to settle and are sworn to shut their mouths forever.
Fourth, it is true we have gotten to the point where the "standard" stuff should go unanswered. People who come in cold without doing some reading or watch videos, should largely be ignored. And I feel no obligation to lay it out free on a silver platter. So regarding Moe's suggestion on a FAQ has good intentions but I won't have any part of it. Because "my FAQ" will be the upcoming published report which I will be charging for. It goes towards supporting ELI. People have to pay for MY "silver platter" information. I refuse to do "silver platter" on the forums. If someone does a FAQ, it happens without my involvement and without my support. I think it is going too far to accommodate newbies.
That is why I focus on articles, blog posts, and new issues. I spend a lot of time looking at the legal landscape, different cases, combing through PACER and doing higher-level stuff. Oscar isn't here in the trenches anymore but he still talks to me on "important stuff" when I need him behind the scenes. His office manager isn't here at all but she is available to me when I need her. That is stuff that I alone deal with and don't delegate. I do a lot of web strategy stuff. So thanks for understanding that there are other bigger issues to deal with.
Finally, I may take you up on the proofreading/editing offer. Stay tuned.
Thanks for bringing up a lot of good points for me to comment on.
I think that ELI and the team have done a stellar job here.
The quality is first-rate, and I don't think that we'd have better results if people were actually paid to do the job.
Often, we don't get enough kudos for what we do, regardless of our career.
Matt's taken on a lot. However, I'm of the opinion that while Matt facilitates the dissemination of information/moderates, the actual "fight" must come from the current victims of extortion letters.
Most of the new contributors to the forum are asking if they should write a letter and what to put in it. I think that we've largely come to an agreement on here about writing letters and what they should say.
I feel that going over the same topic again and again is quite time consuming for the team. We could write up some guidelines and point new contributors in that direction.
In the future, Matt's book will be the place to go for in-depth learning about the issues.
I think that the team has spelled out what needs to be done many times.
Perhaps, it's time to concentrate more on significant developments and news?
I can offer proofreading/editorial services for free. I've worked as a tech writer/desktop publisher for several years for actual print and electronic publishing.
In addition, I have some significant talent in the graphics world, which I'd also be pleased to offer for free.
Please feel free to ask anytime, and I'd be pleased to further help with the effort!!
S.G.
-
@Matt and ELI Senior Team Members
Matt, I cannot tell you how much this site has meant to me, while I am not able to do any of the services you have specified needing and I see there have already be some generous offers to help provide some of them I did donate $50.00 my first day here. I have also decided to repeat this once a quarter to support this site and help it continue. While I feel confident in fighting Getty on my own now thanks to ELI I feel this is such a great resource I want to see it remain here for all the new letter recipients. While you must make the decisions that are best for you I can’t think how many people like me who would have just paid out of fear if you and ELI were not here. I will do all I can to support ELI and thank you all again.
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Moe,
I will offer more behind-the-scenes information as to what makes ELI happen to give people some sort of appreciation and perhaps incentive to make an ELI Contribution. I believe it is a value perception and awareness issue. I tend to work quietly and do whatever it takes without asking anyone because I am results oriented However, I am doing a better job letting people know what is happening and what is actually getting done. Being quiet doesn't serve me or ELI.
What I am NOT going to get involved with is doing a FAQ that lays it out so nice and neatly on a silver platter. That takes a LOT of work. I know this because I am very late on finishing and publishing my extortion letter report.
http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/pre-announcement-beat-the-getty-images-extortion-letter-special-report/
If someone else wants to do the FAQ, fine but I won't do it for free. My "silver platter" information is going to be published and made available to those who support ELI, not those who want to sponge ELI for every iota of energy that we can give. The forums and videos are here for a reason to accommodate the "free" audience. But all the private email, phone calls, custom replies, making it super-easy and spoon-feeding nonsense isn't going to happen with me or Oscar. That is going way too far for us. If a free FAQ is what is "required" of ELI, I would sooner shut everything down than being abused and leeched.
It is sort of like those customers who go into a fast-food restaurant and they take fistfuls of napkins, condiments, and toilet paper because they are "free". Or people who go into all-you-can-eat buffets and get plates full of food and throw a lot of it away because it was "free". Fortunately, most people don't do that but there are a good number of people who do abuse "free" if you don't nip it in the bud.
Regarding fund-raising, I have always been slow to ask for contributions because it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. Obviously, you don't sense as much "uncomfortableness" right now because I have been pushed to my limits by the people who abuse "free" over the years. Part of it is my fault for letting it go for so long. I often have to reach a place of anger and irritation to make a strong stand which isn't always the best way to handle things.
Another thing about "fund-raising" is that I don't believe or like the hard-sell. I will lay out the value proposition and do a soft-sell. People will either get it or not. If not enough people get it and support it, then like any other business, it is time close shop and move on to something else. I don't believe or support spamming or hard-selling people for money. Not my style. I hate it being done to me, I don't want to inflict it on someone else.
Regarding social media, I don't believe in spamming or doing heavy-handed campaigns there either. A mention or two is ok but I am not going to turn ELI into a social media campaign issue where we are constantly hitting people u for money. I am trying to walk a fine line of gentle suggestion vs. going outright "political campaigning".
I am implementing the value proposition where people can buy products and services to help their cases. They may not "need" it but we hope they will buy the product and service because it helps the ongoing livelihood of ELI. We will see how it goes.
The best way to help ELI is to recommend the 30-minute ELI Support Call, the upcoming special report, and Oscar's Defense Letter in that order. Let people choose that. These give value in exchange for financial contribution that helps ELI.
Matthew, this very same text would make a good "About Us" or "ELI 101" text. Perhaps we can help you assemble an FAQ page for newbies like myself who come in pumped on a huge fear rush and start spouting ideas that have been discussed thoroughly in the forum. There was at least one post I remember that laid out the answers to some of the most common questions we newbies are going to be asking, for example:
Is this for real or is this some kind of phishing nonsense? Can they really drag me into court for $xx,xxx.xx over x image(s)? Can they come after me if I modified the image a lot?
You get the picture. This FAQ page could be used as a requirement to subscribe to the Forum, kind of like a "Forum Rules" introduction portal. This is a good place to emphasize that there are hundreds of posts with all kinds of information, and to suggest using the Google search bar for any specific question before posting it to the group.
This could avoid a lot of redundant aggravation. Matthew and Oscar's time need to be protected from becoming the emotional buffer portal for newbies in a state of shock. Matthew's excellent post about the choice to be rational is very inspiring and it could be part of the Newbie FAQ Required Reading, added to the request for an email. That's not asking a lot for all this free advice at all.
I think fundraising is also in order. We're talking about a cause that is very crucial to everyone in this industry. These people could be killing their own industry and may cause extensive damage to the commercial arts in general.
So here are some questions for the group. Is it okay to go "social media-eval" on them and start alerting our entire Facebook friend army about this, asking for donations in no uncertain terms? I know plenty of people in the creative and entertainment industries who would be outraged at this kind of abuse and would be very likely to pitch in. Is it okay to click on that "Like" button under the posts, put it on our Wall, and tell people to give until it hurts and also warn them to take down all that stuff they're uploading recklessly?
At this time I have more time than money to contribute, but I'm more than willing to contribute as much as I can of either.
So with your permission, I can dedicate some time to getting people to send ELI some PayPal love.
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As I said, I am not singling anyone out. People have to choose what they can or cannot do. Not all contributions have to be financial either. Spread good cheer and recommend ELI. Give us back links. Give us testimonials. Contribute like you do on the ELI Forums. Like our Facebook page, Retweet us, etc. Lots of ways to help ELI directly and indirectly.
I might start putting my own services and products in a sponsorship area. People can hire me or buy my non-ELI related products and services. That indirectly helps ELI too by supporting my other products. But I haven't done my part by introducing or bringing them over. I have been resistant to this for years but because ELI's ongoing existence might be at stake, I will probably have to give into that. Everyone here just knows me as the guy who owns and runs ELI. The reality is I spent a lot more of my professional life, time, and expertise before I started ELI.
My only point is that if it turned out the ENTIRE ELI readership was broke and couldn't pay for Oscar's Defense Letter Program, ELI Support Phone Calls, buy the upcoming special report, or make ELI contributions, etc. then it would be time for Oscar and I to move on and let extortion letter recipients fend for themselves.
Fortunately, not everyone is broke. There are many people who do find value in Oscar's service which indirectly helps ELI. Some people have taken advantage of the ELI Support calls which helps. Some people have made ELI Contributions outright which helps. People will also buy the special report when it comes out. That will help also.
We look at the big picture. Either ELI justifies its own existence or it doesn't annually. (Breakeven is ok but ongoing losses are not.) No one person can save ELI. No one person can tank ELI. It all comes down to the collective community efforts. We will simply take it one year at a time is all I can say now. Everything works out as it should.
@Matt and ELI Senior Team Members
Matt, I cannot tell you how much this site has meant to me, while I am not able to do any of the services you have specified needing and I see there have already be some generous offers to help provide some of them I did donate $50.00 my first day here. I have also decided to repeat this once a quarter to support this site and help it continue. While I feel confident in fighting Getty on my own now thanks to ELI I feel this is such a great resource I want to see it remain here for all the new letter recipients. While you must make the decisions that are best for you I can’t think how many people like me who would have just paid out of fear if you and ELI were not here. I will do all I can to support ELI and thank you all again.
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I understand completely and I will continue to do all I can, I just wanted to make sure you know what you and the others are doing is greatly appreciated.
As I said, I am not singling anyone out. People have to choose what they can or cannot do. Not all contributions have to be financial either. Spread good cheer and recommend ELI. Give us back links. Give us testimonials. Contribute like you do on the ELI Forums. Like our Facebook page, Retweet us, etc. Lots of ways to help ELI directly and indirectly.
I might start putting my own services and products in a sponsorship area. People can hire me or buy my non-ELI related products and services. That indirectly helps ELI too by supporting my other products. But I haven't done my part by introducing or bringing them over. I have been resistant to this for years but because ELI's ongoing existence might be at stake, I will probably have to give into that. Everyone here just knows me as the guy who owns and runs ELI. The reality is I spent a lot more of my professional life, time, and expertise before I started ELI.
My only point is that if it turned out the ENTIRE ELI readership was broke and couldn't pay for Oscar's Defense Letter Program, ELI Support Phone Calls, buy the upcoming special report, or make ELI contributions, etc. then it would be time for Oscar and I to move on and let extortion letter recipients fend for themselves.
Fortunately, not everyone is broke. There are many people who do find value in Oscar's service which indirectly helps ELI. Some people have taken advantage of the ELI Support calls which helps. Some people have made ELI Contributions outright which helps. People will also buy the special report when it comes out. That will help also.
We look at the big picture. Either ELI justifies its own existence or it doesn't annually. (Breakeven is ok but ongoing losses are not.) No one person can save ELI. No one person can tank ELI. It all comes down to the collective community efforts. We will simply take it one year at a time is all I can say now. Everything works out as it should.
@Matt and ELI Senior Team Members
Matt, I cannot tell you how much this site has meant to me, while I am not able to do any of the services you have specified needing and I see there have already be some generous offers to help provide some of them I did donate $50.00 my first day here. I have also decided to repeat this once a quarter to support this site and help it continue. While I feel confident in fighting Getty on my own now thanks to ELI I feel this is such a great resource I want to see it remain here for all the new letter recipients. While you must make the decisions that are best for you I can’t think how many people like me who would have just paid out of fear if you and ELI were not here. I will do all I can to support ELI and thank you all again.
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THIS!
" Spread good cheer and recommend ELI. Give us back links. Give us testimonials. Contribute like you do on the ELI Forums. Like our Facebook page, Retweet us, etc. Lots of ways to help ELI directly and indirectly."
We've spent the last few years building an outstanding online reputation, the above will only build on this, PROVIDED it is not done in a spammy manner. We will reap what we sow, what goes around, comes around..yada, yada, yada..
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Matthew, I wasn't suggesting YOU should do the FAQ. I think a volunteer effort could do that. The idea would be to create a single point of newbie info to help buffer the panic calls and emails. I certainly don't believe you need any more work on your plate!
I do appreciate all that you and Oscar and the members have done. It seems like you've put a massive amount of effort into this cause.
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Matt,
I will setup some time with you soon. Perhaps later this week or whenever is convenient for you. Thank you.
I was stunned with your ELI contribution. I believe it is the single largest ELI contribution by anyone in ELI's short history. Thanks so much. It is greatly appreciated. Normally, a $50 ELI Contribution gets you a 30-minute support call. You obviously get a lot more for being so generous. You get to jump to the front of the line here.
As a result of your contribution, I will be putting out more information as to the the behind-the-scene support resources ELI utilizes and some of its direct and indirect costs. Some people might be surprised.
I revamped all the Paypal buttons and configurations. I finally implemented a new "subscription contribution" feature that was suggested to me late last year. (I am sometimes slow with some good suggestions to my own detriment.)
Again, you have my gratitude for your contribution. Give me a shout and let's look at your case. You earned it.
I'm a newcomer but I appreciate this site and have sent in a small donation ($100). However, at the end of the process it gave me an error:
The system cannot find the file specified.
on domain mcssl.com.
Please comfirm this domain is legit to even be in your process (I used the donate now link at bottom left of forum), and make sure you get the money. Then you may want to get this fixed.
Further - I own a website design company and would be willing to donate design or hosting services ongoing.
Thanks for everything. I also retained Oscar today.
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I've noted that some folks have commented about a FAQ.
I wrote up something of a "strategy guide" a little ways back (on Jan, 11, 2012).
The only thing that I'd change is that "bulk registration" is not a "guarantee" of a dismissal or win for the defendant.
I think that Masterfile had a partial victory in this regard agains Martin Gale.
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Lucia had inquired about whether or not I'm an attorney. I’m not an attorney.
I had thought at length about how to answer her query as to what my opinion was regarding "where or not it's worth a shot", or "what the probability is of winning a dismissal". Each individual must decide for himself/herself whether or not it's "worth a shot". But, we can do research and make a reasonable determination. Now, if something was to go to court, it's often difficult to predict "probability", as a human "the judge" will make a decision based on aguments/evidence. The following is my thought process. It's a bit long, but perhaps, there's some food for thought in there.
I’m speaking in terms of US laws/ existing precedents.
Historically speaking, most of the people who paid Getty, Riddick and Righthaven didn’t have to.
Corbis had a good case but gained mixed results, and rumor has it that Masterfile is much better organized than Getty when it comes to contracts/registrations. I’m a bit unclear on the Masterfile thing. They may only be filing lawsuits wherein the paperwork is in place; this may give the false impression that everything that they have is registered/under proper contracts. Most of their wins are on “default” wherein the defendant didn’t show for court.
So, the odds are good that there’s some problem with most infringement claims that should be explored and could possibly be exploited.
Your priority in fighting such claims might be as follows from most desirable to least:
1) Make an informal response, and show evidence that causes them to simply go away
2) Make an informal response, and show evidence that causes them to accept a very low settlement. One so low that the time you saved is more valuable than that of the settlement.
3) In the event of a lawsuit, file a formal defense that causes the plaintiff to give up and withdraw
4) In the event of a strong defense, fight it in court, win, and collect legal fees and other damages
5) In a case wherein you cannot reasonably prevail, pay a the lowest settlement possible in lieu of a larger court loss and legal fees.
Fighting these claims is a process. Collect evidence and find out if there’s a fatal problem with the claim such as:
1) The content was never registered
2) Faulty registration (dates missing, signatures missing, incorrect names)
3) The content was registered by the “original artist”, but there is no “exclusive agreement” in place between the artist and company (agent). Or this agreement is faulty.
4) The registration was made in “bulk”, that is, many items registered together as a collection
5) Registration not made within lawful time limits
The above examples will kill a case in the US. That doesn’t stop ignorant people from filing lawsuits in some cases. File for “summary dismissal” and site precedents. If it does go to court, at least you’ll win and collect your legal fees if applicable. Except in “scorched earth” near-criminal situations such as Righthaven. Note that court precedents currently exist for the above list.
Other fatal problems. These are situations involving mistakes or even fraud which make even the possibility of a claim invalid:
1) Outright fraudulent claims (the image didn’t even appear on your site, or the image only similar and not the same).
2) Companies or individuals impersonating artists/ agencies/ companies/ lawyers and sending forged correspondence/fraudulent claims.
3) Misrepresentations of law, for example situations wherein Getty makes accusations of infringement over linked images not actually residing on the server/domain of the accused person/company.
Things that might kill or at least give leverage in negotiations or reduce awards in court
1) The images are widely available as “free” (the more the better for the defendant)
2) The images are widely available as low-cost “clip-art” (non rights-managed)
3) The infringement had low exposure (hit count), low resolution, small image size, was on tertiary web pages.
4) The same images sold on multiple sites by unrelated companies
5) Only some rights assigned (but not others) in an “exclusive contract” between an artist and agent.
6) It was “fair use” under the law for registered educational/non-profit organizations.
7) The web site was not commercial, or didn’t make much money.
8 The defendant was unemployed or unemployable, and the web site didn’t make much revenue
Things that people do to avoid payment/court in a worst-case scenario:
1) In the case of a corporation, ensure that the company has little assets left by the time collection efforts are made.
2) Personal bankruptcy
3) “Disappear” in order to avoid service of court papers (somebody did that in a Corbis case).
Where to begin? Here’s what you do:
1) Assess your risk tolerance.
2) Assess your budget
3) Go through the lists above and highlight any points that might apply to your situation
4) Collect all evidence that you can to support what you’ve highlighted
5) Determine if the evidence strongly supports your defence(s)
6) You must now decide if your defence and corresponding evidence support your desired outcome from the very first list.
If your accuser will not provide evidence of their claim, do realize that they’re holding out because they do not have enough evidence to support their claim. Be patient. The accuser must present their evidence before the commencement of any court case. So any evidence will have to be presented eventually. Next, reassess your strategy as you receive any new information.
If new evidence becomes known that isn’t favorable to your defence, keep in mind that you may make a settlement at any time if that’s in your best interest.---
S.G.