ExtortionLetterInfo Forums
ELI Forums => Getty Images Letter Forum => Topic started by: Nelis Infra on February 17, 2009, 07:08:00 AM
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Hello all,
There it is, a $12.250 letter from Getty. This case concerns 11 images. Since there hasn't been a lawsuit yet (because a lawsuit over 3 or 4 images would be to little, according to Oscar), my question is if 11 images would be enough for Getty Images to sue. My letter is from Getty Images London, while I am in the Netherlands. Is there anybody else who got the letter and lives/works in the Netherlands? And if so: did you pay, or did you sue?
Besides, has there been any lawsuit yet against Getty Images? Please inform.
With best regards.
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Hello Nelis,
We also received a 3.600 euro Getty letter today. I coulnd find any other dutch cases so far.
The advise im reading everywhere is to remove the pictures and ignore the letters.
With best regards
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So far Getty has filed a few lawsuits here in the States for sites that had over 20 images. It looks like the defendants did not contest them and settled right away. So we don't know if any of the issues we raise here were raised in court there, not likely. Copyright is granted automatically in countries such as the Netherlands that have signed the Berne Convention, meaning as soon as a person creates a work, it is covered by copyright. This means that technically it is not necessary to include copyright indicators such as "copyright © 2006."You need to look up Dutch law to see if it follows the UK law (no damages at all for innocent infringement) or if it follows US law (allowing damages even for innocent infringement)
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Thanks Oscar for you quick reply. At what point can you speak of 'innocent infrignement' in the States? What I'm saying is: in fact you are never really innocent on the Internet, are you? What is innocence? If you capture a picture from Google Images / Altavista Images? If a third party gave you the pictures / implented the pictures for you? How is innocence defined in U.S. / U.K. case law? Difficult question I suppose...
Second: do you think 11 so called Getty images is a lot? Certainly 12.250,00 EUR is... What I mean; how weak is your position compared to someone with 1 image?
Third: how big is the chance that Getty will sue overseas?
Forth: do you represent Dutch cases as well, Oscar?
Fifth: I've listened to your phonecall with Matthew (on the frontpage) and you said that it is a matter of time before Getty will sue. But if I understand you correctly, there's only been settlements. So no lawsuit yet? And how about the people who have received the Getty letter back in 2005/2006? Shouldn't they've been sued by now?
I'll be glad hearing from you Oscar!
Thank you very much in advantage!
With best regards.
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I answered most of these questions on your other post Nelis. I cannot handle a Dutch case unfortunately, but you are in a stronger position than in the US. Innocent infringement is a case by case issue, Why should someone not believe their web developer when they prepare their site for them? If you downloaded it from some site that claimed they were free and public, then you are innocent as well.
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We have received the infamous Getty letter today for 1 image and are supposedly now expected to pay €1000.
We are taking measure to remove the "offending" image as I type.
Do you think it's advisable to contact Getty in relation to this matter or simply remove and ignore?
Were a Dutch company as well so interested to hear what other Dutch companies have done in relation to this matter?
thanks
John
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As a lawyer I cannot counsel you to "ignore it." Getty has not sued ever over just one image and they are not likely to start doing so now. We have been contacted by numerous Dutch companies and like US companies, their approaches vary based on how much grief and risk they can take. I welcome any other Dutch company that is involved in this matter that follows this forum to post thier experiences. As to your particular situation, alot will depend on how long the image was up and from where the image was acquired. I would remove the image and make them a settlement offer in the range of what you would have paid for the length and manner of use. Good Luck and keep us posted
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Thanks for your comments Oscar, I just send you a mail before gettting to the forum, now I have some answers allready.
We have also received the 1000 euro letter for 1 image, which was allready deleted from the site 2 months before receiving the claim.
Being in the intellectual property business myself I do acknowledge the right to defend copyrights But I do believe it is the law ( or at least common practice) to first send a infringement warning, allowing you to delete the images or stop any other form of infringement. Starting with a claim is a form of extortion indeed.!
I tried calling Getty but the are allways in answering machine mode.
Is there a Dutch lawyer who has a similaer approach and letter as Oscar? Please reply.
Also /: does any of the former posts lead to a more positve settlement?
thnx for your info
RIk Wagter
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It is common practice to send a cease and desist letter first but it is not the law (in the US anyway) unless the infringement is covered under the new DMCA where internet service providers are entitled to a letter before litigation. Haven't come across a Dutch attorney willing to pick up my model yet
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Hi everybody,
Not my best day today....also got a letter from Getty with an amount of € 6.500,- excl. VAT for the use of 6 pictures. I have a company in the Netherlands and my letter also came from Getty Images UK.
First of all, I'm very glad that I have founded this website, this morning I was really stressed out but now I'm a bit more relaxed knowing I'm not the only one in this case and there are people working on it :-).
Nelis; since you got your letter in february, how is the situation today? Did you get a lawyer or didn't respond at all? As you may understand I'm very curious about your case.
Hopefully we can keep in touch and more Dutch cases will attend this forum!
Kind regards Naomi
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Dear Naomi:
While we wait for Nelis to respond, I can say that I have not heard of a lawsuit actually having been filed in the Netherlands. Hopefully Nelis can give us an update and tell us the statuts of his case at this time.
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I can give somewhat of an update. We received the letter about 4 months ago for one image and simply chose to remove the image and ignore the letter. We received an additional letter some months later but nothing since and I will of course keep this site updated with progress as and when things happen.
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Thanks for the update and yes, please keep us posted !
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Hi everybody,
UPDATE : Just received another letter from Getty Images... The first letter came about 2 months ago. I already removed the pictures but I didn't pay. I'm not quite sure they checked my website again but they noticed they haven't received any payment... ;-)
If I'll get new information I'll keep you guys posted! If anyone has some other news please let me know!
Kind regards,
Naomi
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thanks for the post
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>:D<
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We also received a letter from GI. We received it on october 26th.
In 2005 we had our website built by eFocus (a wellknown company, with big clients in the Netherlands). eFocus send us an invoice for purchase of the images. They never mentioned it was for temporarily use. We really thought we had bought the images. We are no expert in this field, eFocus is.
First of all we contact eFocus to confront them with the claim and how we can solve it. They told us that we should have known that we did not buy the images, but that the use was temporarily. We paid them € 500 for 4 images. After the reaction of eFocus we contacted a legal advisor. They wrote some nice letters to eFocus.
Based on the information of this website, we send GI an email with a copy of the invoice of eFocus and we had the images removed by eFocus. We did not make a proposal to settle the matter by financial means.
We are interested in news about the other cases mentioned in this topic in The Netherlands. So if anyone has some more informtion, we woul like to hear about it
Sylvain
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Dear Sylvain:
We get lots of contact from folks in the Netherlands and we have not heard of any lawsuits having been filed in your country. Thanks for the post and keep us updated on any news.
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On november 12the we received a response from GI. They offered us a discount of 20%. We did not respond to the mail yet. Is it wise to respond, or should we just see what happens?
In my opinion we should not respond. We made our statement en that should be it i think.
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I would just wait and see what they do next. Keep us posted
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By way of another update from my corner of the world, ................... nothing to update
will post again the 3 months time but earlier should I get another letter.
As an aside, does anyone have a contact to a Dutch Law firm that could push this for us if necessary (basically looking for a Dutch Oscar :-)
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On January 7th we received a new letter from GI (they haven't received payment).
We do not respond, we will see what happens.
Sylvain
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Thanks Sylvain:
Still haven't found a Dutch firm willing to handle this as we are here in the States so we are waiting to see how it is addressed in your case. I think you are doing the right thing! Keep us posted.
Oscar
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Hmm,
I received also today a letter from them for 3 images.
I downloaded them about 8 years ago (If I remember correct) in a free zip file containing some phpbb templates. And used them on my website. The they I think will not make them to win this case is simple.
In The Netherlands the law may be something diffrent then in the USA.
First of all I speak dutch, so I demant all copyright, terms of use and other legal notices in my own language so I can understand the technical talking with laws and rights.
Second, it seems to be a big scam letter. They already say you are guilty, but in the law it states you are not guilty untill proven otherwise, so they are judges to? The scare people with money without knowing if the people are making profit, are knowing that they are using copyrighted material, etc.
Thirth, Law states also you should settle this matter first. In the music business if you have a few audio tracks a warning will be done first, if you do not remove the material then you will get the bill, simple.
Fourth, As no Dutch law states that you will be delivered the the USA for some bad use of a few images (you are not a terrorist) I don't think they will make it the a law suite for a few images. They have more costs for a lawyer and law suite in The Netherlands then the pictures are worth. Since I speak dutch I can demant a letter / lawyer / judge speaking my language so I can understand my rights.
Fifth, Has anyone saw ever a copy of a legal copyright of one of the images? Didn't find anyone.
Sixt, Who says that the pictures where legally copyrighted at the time you used it?
Comments? please...
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Getty does not register their images with the copyright office so you won't find them. I cannot comment on the rest as I am not familiar with copyright law in the Netherlands. What I can say is that to my knowledge Getty has not filed suit there ever over their images. I would take a wait and see approach before engaging them. You may find some info from some of the other posts about this issue from your countrymen. Good luck and thanks for the post.
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Is their any known law suite in Europe?
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I dont speak German, but I think this is a case where Getty sued in Germany and lost (because the defendant actually had a license I think):
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,547234,00.html
And I think this is be a German forum discussing Getty demands in Germany:
http://www.abmahnwelle.info/
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Since I read / speak / write perfect German I did some digging.
It seems they lost a law suite in germany because they couldn't prove a thing.
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Interesting
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By way of another update from my corner of the world, ................... nothing to update
will post again the 3 months time but earlier should I get another letter.
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Hi guys,
Still no news here as well...
Naomi
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Thanks gang - No news is good news
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Sorry all, seems I am a little behind.
Another update.... nothing to update :-)
If anything does show up, I will of course post, other than that, I'll update again in 3 months time..
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Thanks gang - No news is good news !
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Hello,
Last week I also received a letter for the use of one image, costing € 455 incl VAT.
Since I was not aware of using this image at all I wrote a letter telling them that I was convinced not being guilty.
Today I received 2 emails, 1 containing the link of my webpage where I am using the image and 1 where they offer me a discount of 20% when I pay before the end of july, still an amount of € 380 excl VAT. And I have to remove the image immediately.
I run a little homebased company in the Netherlands and this is a lot of money for me. Years ago, someone developped my website. However I cannot hold him responsible.
I wonder what I should do now, cause I already responded once.
Somebody any advice?
Annelies
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I don't know any lawyer in the Netherlands who I can refer you to but I can also state that I believe Getty has not filed any lawsuits there either. I would wait to see what they do next, but I would immediately take the images down.
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Well, here´s another ´victim´.
About 4 years ago, I built a website for a client, a small beauty salon. I was 15 years old at the time (any chance this could help my case?), and just starting out building websites for clients. Someone told me that Royalty Free images were actually free, which I naively assumed to be true, and resulted in Me using Getty Images regularly. For the website of my client I used one picture from Getty on the front page.
A few days ago I received an email from this quite distressed client, reporting that she had received a €544 ($700) bill from Getty Images. This was actually the second email I received from a client, but since the first client had put up the image herself, I feel more responsible for the beauty salon case.
The picture was, of course, immeadiately removed from the website, but seeing from the many examples, this will have no effect.
I have advised the client to ignore the letter for now, as I am researching the possibilities. I am hoping to find something in the Dutch law similar to the 'innocent infringment', which is present in the UK law. Doudl: have you already contacted Getty demanding a dutch letter? If so, have they reacted?
From what I have read, it seems the best to wait. Are there any dutch people who have received notice from Getty Images after the second letter? I do not expect a lawsuit, but I wouldn't want my client to be bothered by collection agencies or anything similar.
I will keep you up to date, and any advice is very welcome.
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UK copyright law does have protection for innocent infringers. In fact, in cases of innocent infringers UK law allows for no damages to be awarded. Getty has filed some lawsuits in the UK (see posts here about it) but its not clear that the defendants in those suits retained lawyers and fought the case or whether they merely defaulted.
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I was actually talking about a similar phrase in the dutch law, I edited my post to be more clear. Haven't had any luck finding anything similar yet.
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Don't know anything about Dutch copyright law but innocence as a mitigation to a damages claim just makes common sense so hopefully there is some section in the law that follows that logic.
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Hi there,
We are a small Dutch company and have also received the letters. The first one in May. The second one in July. It concerned 9 images in total. These were published on 2 different websites (2 URL's) of our company. Website 1 is our website in the Dutch language. Website 2 is a translation of our website in German.
The websites have been active for almost a year. After receiving the letters we have removed all the images. We have sent their Amsterdam and London based branches an e-mail in which we state that we were not aware of the fact that there were copyrights on these images which had to be paid for.
Getty claims an amount of money for each website:
- Site 1: More than € 8000,-- for 9 pictures (.nl)
- Site 2: More than € 3000,-- for 7 pictures (.de)
Although the images for 'site 2' are similar to the images used for 'site 1', the amount charged for the same image differs. For 'site1' (.nl) they claim € 925,-- per image. For 'site 2' (.de) they claim € 450,-- per image.
What do you people think is the best way to handle this case? Ignore them?
Please advise.
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It's hard to say Peter, but looking at the posts under this topic, it appears that most folks in your country have been waiting to see what Getty's next step will be. I have received no information of any lawsuits having been filed there so I think it might be best for you to hold tight and at the same time try to see if you can find a reliable copyright lawyer who will give you a free consultation.
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I will make this the last of my quarterly report backs unless something different happens going forward.
There is still nothing to report.
To summerise we received a demand letter over a year and a half ago for one image for €1000. We did not reply and received a second letter a few months later. Again, we did not reply and that has been that. Nothing further has been received.
If I do hear anything, of course I will make a post here. I will also keep abreast of matters here and wish one and all success against these extortionists!
thanks
John
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Dear Johnboy:
Thank you so much for your diligence in letting us know what was happening in your case. Many folks from your country have contacted me and I direct them to this post to read about your experience so you have helped many people learn more about the situation in the Netherlands. Thanks again, and no news is good news!
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Yesterday we have received a letter from a Dutch lawyer called van der Steenhoven. They write that they act on behalf of Getty Images.
Within 5 days we have to state that we have stopped publishing the images. Furthermore they want us to pay an amount of more than € 20.000,-- for use of the images, interest, not mentioning the name of Getty with the images, and other costs.
Actually we have stopped publishing the images right after we have received a first letter from Getty Images which was about a year ago.
Do you have any advise how to deal with this?
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Please read through the site which has 3 years worth of information on this topic. Generally take the image down and make them a small settlement offer, I have not heard that they have been filing lawsuits in the Netherlands but I cant advise you as I am not a lawyer there
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Peter... what is the follow up on your story. Did you write back? So yes, what did you write? Or did you ignore them further?
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It seems to be a Dutch lawyer / collection agency. We have sent them an e-mail. This is the same e-mail we have sent to GI in London last year in which we state that we have removed the images immediately after their letter. See my previous messages on this forum.
After we have sent the e-mail we were called by the collection agency. They have asked us to do a proposal now to setlle te matter.
I know that other companies have received the same letter from this Dutch collection agency. Apparently GI tries to collect the money through them.
We have not decided yet what we will do next.
Any advise?
Did anybody else receive the letter from this collection agency 'Van der Steenhoven'?
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Hello Peter and others,
Yes I have received a letter from Steenhoven. I received a letter from Getty last year and replied once that I removed the 2 pictures and that I was not aware of the copyrights. They send me two more letters and I did not reply.
This week I received an email from Steenhoven that they have send me a letter which says that I have to pay 4000 euro's in 5 days. I think I'll reply to say I do not agree and then maybe get a lawyer. I did not yet receive the letter though, they probably do not have my right adress.
Have you decided what to do?
You have read this blog, right?
http://blog.iusmentis.com/2011/04/21/gaat-getty-images-procederen-in-nederland/#comments
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I am glad this is getting attention outside the US and that another blog has developed but would love to see a lawyer in the Netherlands take this up as well
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Hello all dutch (from The Netherlands) viewers. Do not go directly to payment!
Please see also the following blog and comments on:
gaat-getty-images-procederen-in-nederland? (http://blog.iusmentis.com/2011/04/21/gaat-getty-images-procederen-in-nederland/)
and
Royaltyfree is niet gratis! (http://blog.iusmentis.com/2009/06/12/royaltyfree-is-niet-gratis/)
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Thanks Pjotr