ExtortionLetterInfo Forums
ELI Forums => Getty Images Letter Forum => Topic started by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on July 27, 2012, 06:37:25 PM
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At long last I have in my possession the CD containing the complaints that have been filed with the AG. We will have these uploaded to the scribd account, as well as a culled version at some point in time..
http://copyright-trolls.com/site/getty-images-public-record-complaints/ (http://copyright-trolls.com/site/getty-images-public-record-complaints/)
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Yes! I've Been waiting foir this, Thanks Robert!
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Hey guys I just found something very interesting in the first file that Robert has so graciously made available to us. When opened it is on page 114 of 233 and halfway down the letter in the paragraph starting on March 22, 2012 it states that the complainant Ms. Donna Misra after receiving a letter from Timothy McCormack she called his office to speak with him and ended up speaking with paralegal Susan Klatt. She states that Ms. Klatt demanded payment and also states and I quote "she threatened to file a lawsuit". Please correct me if I am wrong but that is a major no-no as a paralegal cannot threaten to sue on behalf of of the law offices they work for.
Perhaps Ms. Misra should be added to our possible contact list as to me this looks like one that should go to the Wyoming, Oregon and Idaho State Bar associations against Timmy.
I will continue to post things of interest as I find them especially for possible follow-up contact with the complainant.
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That's a good catch, Greg. I also noticed that letter, and noted the threat, but I failed to make the connection that it was the paralegal who made the threat.
I also noted Donna Misra gave them a credit card number in her haste, then reversed the charges later. Classic.
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I think the main issue with this, is the fact that it is a telephone call, and would end up being a he said / she said thing...now if we were to get a letter where a paralegal does this, or better yet states somthing that translates into practicing law...that would a different story entirely....
Lots to go thru to say the least!
Hey guys I just found something very interesting in the first file that Robert has so graciously made available to us. When opened it is on page 114 of 233 and halfway down the letter in the paragraph starting on March 22, 2012 it states that the complainant Ms. Donna Misra after receiving a letter from Timothy McCormack she called his office to speak with him and ended up speaking with paralegal Susan Klatt. She states that Ms. Klatt demanded payment and also states and I quote "she threatened to file a lawsuit". Please correct me if I am wrong but that is a major no-no as a paralegal cannot threaten to sue on behalf of of the law offices they work for.
Perhaps Ms. Misra should be added to our possible contact list as to me this looks like one that should go to the Wyoming, Oregon and Idaho State Bar associations against Timmy.
I will continue to post things of interest as I find them especially for possible follow-up contact with the complainant.
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I think you're right Robert that it would end up being a he said she said, this also might be why Timmy got his panties in such a wad back over that whole recording a phone call thread. I can certainly see why Timmy would not want the phone calls coming out of his office recorded besides the well-known fact of how nasty his paralegals can be but he certainly would not want a recording of his paralegals practicing law without a license.
I think the main issue with this, is the fact that it is a telephone call, and would end up being a he said / she said thing...now if we were to get a letter where a paralegal does this, or better yet states somthing that translates into practicing law...that would a different story entirely....
Lots to go thru to say the least!
Hey guys I just found something very interesting in the first file that Robert has so graciously made available to us. When opened it is on page 114 of 233 and halfway down the letter in the paragraph starting on March 22, 2012 it states that the complainant Ms. Donna Misra after receiving a letter from Timothy McCormack she called his office to speak with him and ended up speaking with paralegal Susan Klatt. She states that Ms. Klatt demanded payment and also states and I quote "she threatened to file a lawsuit". Please correct me if I am wrong but that is a major no-no as a paralegal cannot threaten to sue on behalf of of the law offices they work for.
Perhaps Ms. Misra should be added to our possible contact list as to me this looks like one that should go to the Wyoming, Oregon and Idaho State Bar associations against Timmy.
I will continue to post things of interest as I find them especially for possible follow-up contact with the complainant.
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There are certainly some enlightening and entertaining complaints here. I suspect there will be enough fodder to comment on for weeks if not months... Just so happens I have some spare time to dedicate to this.
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Agreed, there are a lot of enlightening complaints I also find it interesting the number of them I have seen that reference back to ELI. I really should be working on estimates right now but I just find this so darn interesting I can't seem to get away from it :)
There are certainly some enlightening and entertaining complaints here. I suspect there will be enough fodder to comment on for weeks if not months... Just so happens I have some spare to dedicate to this.
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http://copyright-trolls.com/site/getty-images-public-record-complaints/
The link isn't working........
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oops sorry Scraggy, I have all of Israel (Picscout) blocked from my server..Thanks for the confirmation tho..you'll have to get the documents from the scribd library once we get them uploaded.
http://copyright-trolls.com/site/getty-images-public-record-complaints/
The link isn't working........
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Prediction after reading some of File No. 1: The Washington State Attorney General's Office pushes a lot of paper around and writes a lot of letters to Getty and to those who file complaints, but absolutely nothing is ever done to sanction Getty or significantly change their extraction scheme business model.
We may find some patterns or nuggets somewhere in all this information that will help individuals with their Getty extortion letters, but I'll take a devil's advocate position here and say that it's probably absurd to expect government or state bar associations to affect real change in a business model that's making huge bucks for the largest image corporation in the world.
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My predictions:
The people who wrote letters to Washington state will not get calls from the collection agency.
Three years from now, we will have evidence that almost none or almost none of these people were sued.
On opinion: Before writing the WA AG, all those people should write Getty and ask for proof Getty has standing to sue etc. The complaint letters would all be better if the pattern was:
1) Getty sends letter.
2) Letter recipient requests Getty provide evidence of copyright, exclusive license and so on.
3) When Getty refuses to provide proof that then complain.
In this case, Getty would be required to explain over and over why they think people should fork over $1000 if they don't provide evidence of valid copyright and exclusive license. But for some reason, people are skipping the step highlighted above. That's a mistake.
Also: just glancing through, some of those uses were clearly commercial, clearly professional and while the people made mistakes, some of those people should offer Getty $200 for the use. Others need to do a little research on their specific images to see whether they are public domain and so on.
I think the trove of letters is useful to us for other reasons.
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The AG’s office states on their website that they cannot act as your personal attorney or make Getty do anything for you as an individual but if a pattern emerges they may take action and investigate. I think we have a pattern here and they may have just never put it all together before until Robert asked for the entire complaint file, I was talking to Robert last night and he was thinking the same thing and hope maybe the girl that compiled the report saw it and forwarded it upstairs. It sounds like it might not have all been in one place as it took a couple of months.
I will be contacted soon by the AG’s office and assigned a person to work with me on my complaint, once that is done I will present them with the “Pattern” as I see it in these complaints and request that an investigation be launched not for me but for the pattern shown in these 1200+ pages.
I will be happy to do this and was planning on it anyway when contacted. I will let everyone know how it goes and what they say. It may end up being a case where we need an ELI letter campaign asking for an investigation too.
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I knew that eventually someone would forget the reason why I recommend make written complaints to the State Bar and Attorney General.
It isn't to force revolutionary change through the organizations taking actions themselves! It is forcing change through the secondary and tertiary effects of making those complaints.
Up until recently, as far as I know NO ONE knew or saw what an Attorney General complaint meant except for me. I already explained that it would probably take MANY, MANY complaints for them to even consider doing anything. Of course, the "severity" of the complaints is a big determining factor. What "crime" or fraud is being committed?
The secondary and tertiary benefits is that there is a governmental agency that makes it their business to preserve and report any and all complaints to anyone that asks however minute. They don't make judgment on the complaints. That means the complainer has to get smart. For me, I should probably modify the advice given to make a complaint to list INDIVIDUALS involved.
Because Getty Images is a a large company making tons of money, very few employees really care that the name Getty Images is being disparaged. Employees work at Getty Images to make money, that's it. At the end of every workday at 5pm, they could care less about Getty Images. But you start listing the individuals on the complaints, I guarantee it will ruffle some feathers. A Getty Images "chain of command" of employees behind the compliance department has been provided on the ELI Forums for those that want it. Everyone also has a right to ask for a supervisor and manager to speak and escalate their matter to in their extortion letter cases. The minute they DON'T escalate or simply refuse to give out their managers names, all bets are off and you publicize the individual names because it is based on actual documented research, not just a fictional list of names.
Some complaints are better than others. It is in who does the complaining. I guarantee you when I make a written complaint and if I am determined to make maximum collateral damage, it becomes so heated and unpleasant most people run away and disappear. I am that good. I say that not to brag but to point out that I have provided LOTs of examples of past cases (all kinds of matters).
One thing I like about Greg Troy's recent effort to fight Getty is that he appears to get the commitment to the goal. Personally, I think it is a bit overkill given what we know of how Getty operates but no one can say he isn't hitting back hard.
For many people, it isn't the instrument. It is what you are willing to do with that instrument and how hard and blunt you will use it to create maximum damage. Please don't take this out of context. I don't subscribe to violence and I don't subscribe to making up fiction. Don't make threats/bluffs you can't keep. But do be committed to doing what it takes in making a powerful written complaint.
Regarding State Bar complaints, I told everyone that the chances of an attorney being disbarred over extortion letters is very slim. However, state bar complaints are rare because most people don't even know there is such a thing. State bar complaints hurt the pride and embarrass the attorney more than anything else. Any attorney that has any pride or care about their reputation will absolutely pay attention to state bar complaints no matter how trivial it might be.
As far as I can tell, it becomes a part of their permanent record and is an ongoing reminder to watch how attorneys conduct themselves. I guarantee you Timmy McCormack is much more aware and has a tighter leash on his paralegals than before.
The BBB can be a help but I largely believe they are a joke of an organization working under false pretenses. They may claim to be non-profit but they are very much "for profit". They are busy selling their memberships, asking for donations, etc. from businesses. So, they can never really go after businesses in a tough way. They are similar to the RipOffReport. You play ball with the BBB and give them money and you too can have a stellar rating.
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I like Lucia's point about Getty refusing to provide paperwork to support their demands.
The first complaint in the fifth PDF that Robert has on his site hammers beautifully at that point.
There's a lot of interesting reading in these PDFs. Thanks for doing all this, Robert!
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There will probably be a resulting thread of discussion of how and what to put into a powerful and damaging complaint letter.
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there will be much more than that I have a plan in the works, that will greatly depend on some of the ELI community..first things first however, is to complete wading thru these docs and culling out the fluff.
There will probably be a resulting thread of discussion of how and what to put into a powerful and damaging complaint letter.
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The secondary and tertiary benefits is that there is a governmental agency that makes it their business to preserve and report any and all complaints to anyone that asks however minute. They don't make judgment on the complaints. That means the complainer has to get smart. For me, I should probably modify the advice given to make a complaint to list INDIVIDUALS involved.
I agree with this 100% and have seen your letters on Scribd and that is why in all my complaint letters I am complaining against Getty Compliance Specialist Douglas Bieker as well as Getty Images for harassment, extortion and unethical business practices. Phase two of my campaign will also work on increasing Mr. Bieker’s Google presence and when done will ask Robert to do a Google search video of him. I have been able to collect a little background on our Mr. Bieker.
One thing I like about Greg Troy's recent effort to fight Getty is that he appears to get the commitment to the goal. Personally, I think it is a bit overkill given what we know of how Getty operates but no one can say he isn't hitting back hard.
Thank you Matthew, I am defiantly committed, but I would disagree about the overkill part and here is my thought process, feel free to add additional comments or disagree. If I handle responding to complaints at Getty and I see a BBB complaint come in I think no big deal we see them all the time, I see an AG complaint from the same person followed by an FTC complaint followed by letters from a congressman and senator I might think this case is just not worth the time-suck and trouble this guy is putting me, our compliance specialist and company, especially since they know I have screenshots of where the image came from and it clearly appears to belong to someone else offered up in a public directory which makes it a de minimis case at best.
Actually phase two of my campaign in addition to follow up letters will involve making a call to someone I have done work for and become friends with who is the head of a major federal government agency. I am going to ask this person since they deal with congressman, senators and the executive office every week if they know of or can find me the right person or committee that would handle/investigate my complaint, along with all the others so thoughtfully provided by Robert and get me a number or way of getting it to them without having to fight through the 7 levels of buffer secretaries and staff that protect them.
For many people, it isn't the instrument. It is what you are willing to do with that instrument and how hard and blunt you will use it to create maximum damage. Please don't take this out of context. I don't subscribe to violence and I don't subscribe to making up fiction. Don't make threats/bluffs you can't keep. But do be committed to doing what it takes in making a powerful written complaint.
Agreed if you tell Getty or anyone you are going to do something you better follow through with it or you lose all credibility and just become a blowhard. Getty is now realizing I meant everything I said and hopefully Mr. Bieker is getting a bit of the cringe factor.
Regarding State Bar complaints, I told everyone that the chances of an attorney being disbarred over extortion letters is very slim. However, state bar complaints are rare because most people don't even know there is such a thing. State bar complaints hurt the pride and embarrass the attorney more than anything else. Any attorney that has any pride or care about their reputation will absolutely pay attention to state bar complaints no matter how trivial it might be.
As far as I can tell, it becomes a part of their permanent record and is an ongoing reminder to watch how attorneys conduct themselves. I guarantee you Timmy McCormack is much more aware and has a tighter leash on his paralegals than before.
Got these letters ready to print and I am waiting for Timmy or one of his paralegals to send me a letter and these will go out to everyone I have already sent letters to plus the bar associations of Washington State, Oregon and Idaho. They go out even if it comes from a paralegal as it is from his office and should not have gone out without Timmy’s knowledge or approval so as far as I am concerned a letter from his paralegals is a letter from him.
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Greg Troy:
"Still, I'd like to try, with your permission. I'll send a letter a week. They can't ignore me forever."
Matt Chan:
They sure can, but you write your letters if it makes you happy. I'll even mail 'em for you, how's that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azWVPWGUE1M&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLDBDAF577D27DF899
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You own me a keyboard from the diet gingerale I spit all over it laughing ;)
Greg Troy:
"Still, I'd like to try, with your permission. I'll send a letter a week. They can't ignore me forever."
Matt Chan:
They sure can, but you write your letters if it makes you happy. I'll even mail 'em for you, how's that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azWVPWGUE1M&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLDBDAF577D27DF899
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You own me a keyboard from the diet gingerale I spit all over it laughing ;)
Please supply a receipt for said keyboard, credit card statement showing the charge, and proof that this keyboard is indeed being used by you exclusively on this particular machine....or you can pound sand!
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Sir, I shall provide you with a screenshot of a keyboard and if you require further proof a link to a website that contains a picture of the keyboard will be provided as proof. As you know the seller/purchaser confidentiality agreement forbids me from providing a receipt at this time, a receipt would only be provided through the process of discovery.
You were previously notified of your causing of the unauthorized wasting of diet ginger ale causing the said keyboard to become sticky. If full payment is not received within 14 days this case may be escalated to Canada Dry.
If after settlement you would like to use the sticky keyboard, our Keyboard Compliance Team would be happy to mail it to you for a slight additional charge.
You own me a keyboard from the diet gingerale I spit all over it laughing ;)
Please supply a receipt for said keyboard, credit card statement showing the charge, and proof that this keyboard is indeed being used by you exclusively on this particular machine....or you can pound sand!
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Robert - great job in getting these and posting them. Nice to see how many folks mention ELI.