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Author Topic: Greedy Getty in Europe: Hello from Switzerland  (Read 6555 times)

Reggy

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Greedy Getty in Europe: Hello from Switzerland
« on: October 22, 2008, 04:06:31 PM »
Hello everyone, especially Oscar

I received THE letter yesterday. Good to know I was not the only one who panicked.
Years ago, when I learnt to use a computer and started to explore the internet, I downloaded some images from a homepage I didn't remember until yesterday.
I do hands-on-healings out of my home, in my free time. In June this year I created a homepage giving information on what I do and contact infos. I used three images which I had stored on my computer for years. I didn't even think about copyright, shame on me!
Getty wants 4950 Swiss Francs from me, 1650 sF per image, due on october 23rd. That would be tomorrow. I do not have the money.

Getty writes (all in English) from their London Office:

Getty Images
116 Bayham Street
London NW1 0AB
UK
(They offer a phone number for German and one for French!)

"...This constitutes a copyright infringement und Art. 10, 62, 67 URG in Switzerland, §§ 97, 16, 19a UrhG in Germany and equivalent laws in other jurisdictions entitling Getty Images International to seek legal remedies in any appropriate court."

In case other Swiss "infringers" may find this forum in the future:
Art. 62 http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/231_1/a62.html

I found Art. 60 http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/231_1/a60.html which says, the compensation must be reasonable, based on the benefit the infringer took from the use of the unauthorized product and the damage or loss the owner has had.

I had no benefit through my homepage.
And I will wait and see what will happen. I am wondering what happened to people who did the same.

Would have been nice to find Oscar as Oskar, Swiss Attorney. :)

Thank you Oscar and everyone on the forum. It is good to know I am not alone.
Reggy

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Greedy Getty in Europe: Hello from Switzerland
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 06:47:12 PM »
Welcome Switzerland! So much for neutrality! In all seriousness, Reggy, I am very sorry to hear that this "settlement program" has now reached your fair country. I certainly have no knowledge of Swiss copyright law though I did look at the links you attached to your message. The problem is that while you may take a reasonable approach to this situation Getty will not. They will not likely accept a fair offer based on your non-benefit from the infringement, but you may as well try. I can also let you know that they have not instituted any lawsuits in Germany, Belgium  or Singapore either and all of those locations are being run out of the London Office as well.  Hopefully their approach will be the same in Swtizerland, which is to scare but not sue. Good luck and keep us posted

Fred

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Re: Greedy Getty in Europe: Hello from Switzerland
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2008, 11:26:16 AM »
Hello Oscar, Hello Reggy,

I've also concerned by the letter in Switzerland. In my case, the images where provided by a two letters worldwide known software editor. I found a lot of information about these letters on a french forum. On these forum they mostly suggest not to communicate with getty as their menace are posted without receipt confirmation.

It seems that getty has engaged MORETON SMITH INTERNATIONAL to get the money.

For french speaking people, you will fin a lot of informations and exemple on the loyus blog.

Thanks for the website and the interest in this case.

Regards

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Greedy Getty in Europe: Hello from Switzerland
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 01:49:00 AM »
There is also a lot of info regarding Moreton Smith on the great FSB discussion forum that is referenced on our home page. Moreton Smith is also handling this for Getty in the UK and it has been going on there since about 2005.  (No lawsuits filed there yet either by the way). The FSB forum has pages and pages of info and good discussion about what is happening in England and about Moreton Smth. Good Luck!

sistem

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Re: Greedy Getty in Europe: Hello from Switzerland
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 12:17:06 PM »
Hello from Switzerland !

I don't feel alone anymore, since I've red your messages, Reggy & Fred.

My customer recieved THE letter on july 08. We changed those 3 images, removed the site from archive.org imediately.

First question: how to act to redirect all communication from him to my company? Should I ask my customer to send the letter "for further communication, please contact Xy SA on this address...", or should I contact them directly "my customer received the letter .... etc. For further communcation, please communicate with us". I don't want my customer be enoyed by this, since it is my company that created the site. Do I need to explain that the images were find somewhere on a kind of promotional CD with "free images"? No, I think that we all have a very similar history.

Second question:
Swiss law, extract:
2 Die Entschädigung beträgt in der Regel höchstens zehn Prozent des Nutzungsertrags oder -aufwands für die Urheberrechte und höchstens drei Prozent für die verwandten Schutzrechte; sie ist jedoch so festzusetzen, dass die Berechtigten bei einer wirtschaftlichen Verwaltung ein angemessenes Entgelt erhalten.
What do you think about writting the proposal to Getty, with the copy of the law text and: "We propose you 10% of all earnings generated by the use of these images, which presents 10% of 2000 chf, invoiced to our customer, and 10% of 0 chf that our customer earned by using your images", obviously written in better form?

Third question:
Do you think that there is enough people in the same situation as three of us, in Switzerland, so we can maybe find one layer for all and reduce like that our possible future costs?

Thanks to all, especially to the creator of this site and to Oscar, for his advices.

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Greedy Getty in Europe: Hello from Switzerland
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 03:29:38 PM »
I can answer the first and last question but not the middle one (at least not without some translation) Getty's position everywhere else and I am sure in Switzerland as well  is to deal only with the end-user and not the developer. I think part of the reason for that is to cause additional stress by contacting the person who has no idea how the site was built. So no matter how much you tell them to deal with youdirectly they are likely to ignore that and keep contacting the customer.  What you can do is advise the customer that this is their standard procedure and promise to take care of it yourself.  We know represent somewhere around 40-45 clients for whom we have issued letters.  One-third of those who hired us are developers hiring us on behalf of their customers.  We then send Getty the letter on behalf of both the developer and the end-user.

As to the second question - I obviously agree that this is the best course of action.  Try to convince some lawyer in your country to model a letter program like ours,they canlink to our site and I would be glad to discuss our Getty experince with them. Believe me if there are three of you from Switzerland who found this site, there are hundreds of you across your country who need this help. And while it is not profitable at US$150 per letter, it has been a great experience and I have many businesses that now consider me their lawyer and I amsure will lead to more business.  Besides it is also the right thing to do.

sistem

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Re: Greedy Getty in Europe: Hello from Switzerland
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 02:54:44 PM »
This is my attempt to translate the law text:

Art. 60 of Federal law on copyright and related rights

The compensation is to be calculated depending on following criteria:

a.   benefits obtained by the user by the exploitation of the work, phonogramme .... , or if there is no benefit, on cost caused by the exploitation
b.   number and kind of works, allowances, phonogrammes ... protected and non protected
c.   relation between the works protected and not protected

The compensation is usually equal to maximum 10% of the benefit of the exploitation or of the cost generated by that exploitation (use), for the royalties; and to maximum 3% of the Related Rights; the compensation must be calculated in such a way that a rational management give to beneficiary (claimant) the equitable remuneration.

The use of the work is subjected to the preferential rate.


Please, you other swiss guys, can you improve my translation?

 

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