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Author Topic: Heads up Destination360 possible issue  (Read 6033 times)

Dee

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Heads up Destination360 possible issue
« on: January 27, 2014, 02:22:24 PM »
Just wanted to post this as a heads up, if anyone else has had experiences with this company.

A couple of years ago, Destination360 took down the dedicated server for Hawaii Reporter due to an image they claimed was theirs.  This story goes into the details http://www.bosshi.com/website-not-safe-on-godaddy/

As you can see it turns out the image was in iStock image, not even theirs and it took us several days to deal with GoDaddy on the issue.  iStock did help us, they said it wasn't the first time this had happened.  We had tried to reach out to D360 at that time for help and no one every responded.  They did respond to iStock claiming that it was a mistake, they did them in bulk and they were correcting the issue.

Since I wrote that post, I was contacted by several others sharing their similar stories which is also found online now.

Fast forward to recently, a new client of mine calls me in a panic to remove some images because they got a letter from Destination360, (it seems now they are going to the getty image letter model, making threats then asking for settlement fees.) Of course I looked and both images were iStock images.

So I tweeted about it.  I get an email from someone there asking me what my issue was.  He then goes to say "if you are just doing this to get traffic to your site, I understand" and he lists 5 urls where I wrote scam alert posts. 

Anyway we go back and forth where he argues with me, tells me that yes they are now asking for settlement fees but are 100% sure they D360 images.  He makes some more passive aggressive comments as if I didn't really have clients who received letters, he still felt I had some agenda I am not sure what.  Since my client didn't give me permission to share the issue with them, I didn't want to forward the letters so I just gave him the images.  He is looking into it now.

On their website they have a page up where they talk about how you can license their images and how they are now asking for settlement fees on infringers. Notice the image on the page? It is a shutterstock image.  http://www.destination360.com/stock-image-licensing

While they have their own images (they say they get them directly from photographers) and in some cases use stock images, it seems to me that most of their images are stock and they don't seem to know the difference or  have a reliable system.  At first they gained nothing by taking down people's sites but now that they have started charging for licenses or settlement fees, they do benefit.  I am still not sure if this is just poor management or they are up to something.  I suppose we will know based on how they handle it. 

I am surprised iStock hasn't cracked down on them for hassling their customers.  I wish they would so these guys would stop this.  When they took down Hawaii Reporter, it cost them significantly.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Heads up Destination360 possible issue
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 04:45:49 PM »
it;s nice to Istock a Getty image company is so kind to help with this matter...and i also think if i'm ot mistaken getty also owns shutterstock as well..nevre heard of d360 but i would not be surprised to learn that Getty owns them as well..
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
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binger

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Re: Heads up Destination360 possible issue
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2014, 08:41:05 PM »
There actually doing it to a site I help out with as we speak! Somebody please help! I read a case that they sued someone for 6000 but they lost. They have done this before and I'm guessing is how they make there money.

D360

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Re: Heads up Destination360 possible issue
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2015, 01:51:26 AM »
Dee aka/Dani,

Still pushing your most popular post ever "Your website is not safe on GoDaddy". This thread on ELI was brought to our attention and thought best that we comment as there's always two sides to a story. I cannot comment on an old issue from 2010 or 2011 regarding the use of a istock photo I do know there was and possibly still is scraping occurring of our images. We have refined our systems since 2011 and have mostly purged istock licensed images from our website. I do know of cases where GoDaddy would shut a website down for copyright issues which is heavy handed, but that's their policy.

The majority of images on Destination360 are shot by us. We are in the travel business, not the content policing business, but we do need to protect our content and our livelihood. "Dee" mentioned an image at http://www.destination360.com/stock-image-licensing belonging to Shutterstock that is FALSE. We own it and have it registered with a copyright filing.

We find that 90% or more of websites steal content out of laziness or ignorance but that it doesn't excuse the fact that is wrong. Most websites that use our content without permission are doing so with commercial intent. I hope more discussions on this topic good and bad will bring more awareness to the issue on both sides. Meanwhile, we will keep doing what we need to do to protect our intellectual property rights.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Heads up Destination360 possible issue
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2015, 09:55:34 AM »
"We find that 90% or more of websites steal content out of laziness or ignorance but that it doesn't excuse the fact that is wrong. Most websites that use our content without permission are doing so with commercial intent. I hope more discussions on this topic good and bad will bring more awareness to the issue on both sides. Meanwhile, we will keep doing what we need to do to protect our intellectual property rights. "

so just how does D360 do to protect their intellectual property rights? Are you actually demanding an amount that is reasonable? Or you you also way over the top and also threatening lawsuits? I'm just curious, as I've never seen any of your demand letters? We at ELI have NEVER stated that companies should not proptect their IP, our main complaint is the methods and the amounts, we also all agree that "SOME" stock images are indeed worth more, but the typ[ical run of the mill Getty stock images are clearly not worth 1K, especially given the fact that many of them were sold as royalty free images, then they somehow became "rights managed".
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Heads up Destination360 possible issue
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2015, 07:49:56 PM »
Welcome to the forum D360.  I think you will find if you read through the threads that we are firm believers in artists rights and feel they should be paid for their work.  We object to the strong arm, extortionistic tactics used by some like Getty, VKT and son and others.  When amounts asked for are more than you could hope to win in court and accompanied with threats of legal action then yes, that company can expect to become a topic of discussion here.  I don't believe I have ever seen a letter from your company so I have no opinion on it. 

I invite you to look around the forums and ask questions about what we believe and actually do and at the same time I would appreciate if you would share more about your company and it's policies.

Again, welcome to the forum.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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D360

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Re: Heads up Destination360 possible issue
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 06:44:09 PM »
I'm not familiar with VKT but will read up. I have read a bit about Getty and I understand where Getty comes from to a point but from what I understood is they backed down from aggressively going after people because of the bad press. I suspect the syndication/linking of low resolution images was one response to this.

BuddhaPi;
so just how does D360 do to protect their intellectual property rights?
We send out a settlement demand which in most cases resolves the issue. In some cases, they get forwarded to our legal counsel which
resolves them.

Are you actually demanding an amount that is reasonable?
What's reasonable? If we account for the time it takes to monitor our images, contacting individual, and resolving it.
Yes I'd say it's very reasonable.

An image worth 1k sure... I believe its the owner that should determine its worth. Much of this issue could be resolved if the person who takes the image were to just track down who owns the images before they use it. If you can't determine ownership than go buy one from any number of stock photo agencies for $2-5. Don't rely on some vague royalty free stock site that jimmy's cousin put up plastered with AdSense ads.

Cheers,
D360




Dee

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Re: Heads up Destination360 possible issue
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 07:59:07 AM »
For some reason I missed the responses here.

"Still pushing your most popular post ever"
smh... more shitty accusations and sarcasm. Nice. Destination 360 sounds like a frickin amazing company.

"There's always two sides to a story."
Absolutely, so discuss it in a reasonable professional way. Your first communication to me was an email being an accusatory jerk. Your snarky responses are completely rude and unnecessary. Especially when D360 admittedly was wrong!
 
"I cannot comment on an old issue from 2010 or 2011. We have refined our systems since 2011 and have mostly purged istock licensed images from our website"
Look, you acknowledged there was an issue and it has been corrected so why couldn't you just say that and apologize without sarcasm and douchiness?  It was like our email conversation, you claimed you wanted to understand the issue and fix things so when I gave you the facts, you decided our conversations wasn't productive and didn't want to talk. It is obvious you weren't and still aren't interested in any conversation where you are wrong.

You said you resolved the issue and fixed your system. Had you just been like "sorry, our bad, it wont happen again.." I would have been like "cool, ok got it, apology accepted thanks for addressing my complaint and fixing the issue I will revise my blog."

I will update my blog saying I finally got a response and include your wonderfully professional emails and a link to this thread and let people decide for themselves what they think.

Seriously though....I don't get the tude, it just speaks volumes about your company and intentions.

BTW like others said, we are all for protecting IP rights. I am a content creator and photographer, people steal from me all the time. I get it.  But going after people who have done NOTHING wrong is not good.

D360

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Re: Heads up
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2015, 02:48:00 PM »
Danni/Dee

Sorry I cannot write as eloquently as your words below but let's let the facts speak for themselves.
Your Words: shitty accusations, sarcasm, accusatory jerk, snarky responses, completely rude,
My comment; Still pushing your most popular post ever
ok enough said.

Folks this is an issue that occurred 5 years ago but it's still begin brought up by their Webdeveloper/writer/reporter Aka; Danni/Dee. for whatever reason wants to keep this conversation rolling; pageviews, pissed off, or business whatever the reason. I will spell out the facts one more time for the few people that are interested.

This issue from 5 years ago;  her employer Hawaii Reporter "a for profit publication" was using work taken from us (not copyrighted by) on 8 pages at different times 2010-2011. Example: Thursday, February 10th, 2011 | Posted by Panos Prevedouros http://www.hawaiireporter.com/did-honolulu-city-council-get-the-memo-from-u-s-congress

And if the link error out then it means Hawaii Reporter have 404ed it since I've posted this.
But there's another way to see them through Wayback Machine
https://web.archive.org/web/20110212164512/http://www.hawaiireporter.com/did-honolulu-city-council-get-the-memo-from-u-s-congress

They attributed the image to our website. Unknown to my copyright guy this was one of the few licensed images on our website. Why would Hawaii Reporter say they licensed the image but take it from us? No one knows. Godaddy's heavy handed policy shutdown their site (which they have since modified). Both parties had some fault but it's still being brought up 5 years ago and counting. Our track record speaks for itself. We've been in business for 17 years and as far as I know this is the big issue.

I understand this forum is slanted towards what is considered extortion but I and many creatives consider protecting our livelihood. I'll let someone else argue that point. Here's an interesting case to follow who people interested in copyright. http://petapixel.com/2015/05/27/photographer-suing-pinterest-in-federal-court-over-repeated-copyright-infringement/

And many of you are probably visiting this post for the first time trying to figure out who we are. We produce original content for travel guides and a little conversation of copyright from a different POV.
http://www.destination360.com/forum/photography-virtual-tours/

PS: Danni/Dee: In a previous thread you claimed our image here was shutterstock the accusation is false. http://www.destination360.com/stock-image-licensing. I shot this in Thailand.

I'm sure to see one more response but I'll let you have the last word. Mahalo!

Matthew Chan

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Re: Heads up Destination360 possible issue
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2017, 06:11:09 PM »
D360,

The owner can determine a PRICE for an image but only the marketplace can determine the true "worth" and "market price". It is subjective.

I can say I have an apple that is "worth" $1,000.  That apple is one of a kind.  But no one is going to pay $1,000 for a dumb apple that can be in most grocery stores for less than $1.  It doesn't matter how much work, fertilizer, TLC, or dollars, etc. to grow that single apple. The market price is less than $1, period end of story.  Hence the market's valuation of the worth of that apple is $1.  However, if that same apple is being offered in the middle of a desert with no other options, suddenly that same apple can be worth $10,000.

Images are readily accessible anywhere on the Internet. Images are grossly abundant. Hence, most pros don't want to acknowledge that their hard work may have a low market value by the sheer glut of images available today.

So, if someone demand $1,000 for an image to pay, an infringer can legally challenge that notion. They have a right and duty to challenge it. They have the right to negotiate or make a counter offer.  They can also choose not to pay at all.  People have a right to decide how to proceed. But it is no secret that we feel most extortion letters are disproportionate.

However, I do agree that people should not be trolling on unknown websites for free photos. It is fraught with peril.

Are you actually demanding an amount that is reasonable?
What's reasonable? If we account for the time it takes to monitor our images, contacting individual, and resolving it.
Yes I'd say it's very reasonable.

An image worth 1k sure... I believe its the owner that should determine its worth. Much of this issue could be resolved if the person who takes the image were to just track down who owns the images before they use it. If you can't determine ownership than go buy one from any number of stock photo agencies for $2-5. Don't rely on some vague royalty free stock site that jimmy's cousin put up plastered with AdSense ads.

Cheers,
D360
Read http://Defiantly.net. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, irony, snark, sarcasm, epithets, & profanity. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

 

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