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Author Topic: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty  (Read 14455 times)

alanspicer

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Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« on: June 27, 2012, 04:07:19 AM »
I'm just basically introducing myself at this point, not asking for help specifically. I've viewed some of the content on this site and it is much appreciated. I found this site in a google.com search and it has been very helpful so far. I know not to bother Mathew or Oscar from the forum threads that I've read already and the videos that I have watched. I want to do my own homework on this thing as much as possible. And I don't want to bother M or O until I can find the money to be able to use their services IF I need them. I do want to reserve that option though.

On my blog I had posted a screen shot back in August 2009 of a Microsoft Windows 7 RC that I was playing with and I made some commentary on that and other events that were going on at the time regarding Windows 7 release leaks and such. The desktop background (customizable obviously within Windows) was something called "Pemaquid Lighthouse and Cliffs Maine" from the included "United States" desktop backgrounds ... so it's easy for someone who has Windows 7 to see this image as you can turn it on at any time. The images rotate on release version that I have now, not sure if it did so in the RC that I had back then.

Anyway after some fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) which I am sure they wanted ... I called them on the phone and explained what it was. But I had to ask them what URL it was on - because they didn't send that in the letter. But seeing the photocopied small representations that they included in the letter it looked like my blog ... and I pretty much knew it was a Windows desktop screen shot of some sort. I didn't know when or where it was on the blog though. I got the D. Bieker guy ... He wanted my email address so I gave it to him. They initially wanted $875.00, but sent me an email after the phone call with the typical "FOR SETTLEMENT PURPOSES ONLY" header with a new offer of $675.00. Of course "This offer is made conditionally and it will automatically be withdrawn if full payment is not postmarked by July 05, 2012."

Anyway I've looked around and I can find that image all over the Internet - mostly as Free Desktop Backgrounds - but also in other photo posting sites that allow users to post their own collections. That's not how I got it, and I didn't know that until today. But I will be using the plain blue desktops if I ever make Operating System screen shots again.

* Anyway hello everyone ...

Alan Spicer

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2012, 05:47:43 AM »
you are on fairly good grounds here!, and welcome to the forum BTW. First order of business would be to advise them you will NOT be aepting any emails over this issue or phone calls, require they send everything US mail..In other words make them WORK for this.. If it was  a screen shot on a blog you were commenting on , chances are it falls under "fair use"...I would start learning about this first!.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
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Moe Hacken

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2012, 08:58:15 AM »
Welcome, alanspicer. There is some good information on the forum from about 3 years ago. There were similar problems with the wallpaper that came with Vista and it was discussed in the forum at that time:

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/windows-vista-sample-images/

If you use the search bar at the top of these pages to search for "windows wallpaper" you may find other information of interest regarding "baitpaper" websites.

This also speaks to the issue of End User License Agreements (EULAs), which most of us click through without really reading their contents. Many of them are incredibly long and cryptic. If you look through the Windows EULA document that comes with the OS disc or the computer, it probably has some mention about those images buried deep in the legalese.

Do any of you have the EULA for Windows 7? It would be interesting to take a peek to see if there's any mention of the included "sample images". I think a case could be made that Microsoft is not showing good faith by essentially including "baitpaper" in their software on behalf of Getty or anyone else.

Also worthy of consideration: Bill Gates apparently owns Corbis. Ahem.

http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/memes-make-billions-keep-hair-cut.jpg

« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 12:56:51 PM by Matthew Chan »
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Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2012, 09:11:58 AM »
Welcome to the forums alanspicer!

I agree with BuddhaPi, this appears to be a case of fair use.  If you are unfamiliar with it here is a link that may be helpful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

I would read this article and send them a letter telling them you were commenting on this and it falls under fair use and possible look up and cite some fair use cases.  It sounds like you are off to a good start, keep reading and asking questions if there is something you don’t understand as there are a lot on very knowledgeable people here.  Don’t let them rush or hurry you with these artificial deadlines they impose trying to panic you into paying.  Good luck and please keep us posted!
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2012, 09:50:48 AM »
From Windows & EULA:

Icons, images and sounds. While the software is running, you may use but not share its icons, images, sounds, and media. The sample images, sounds and media provided with the software are for your non-commercial use only.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1Vw2SQGlLSdr_Cs6RT4jKJib3eylSEVPcS2z6BJoRy45Y1PYd5Z4vfijAf4nP/edit?pli=1

Citing case law in a response is a good thing, and since getty just loves to use deadlines, I would consider throwing back at them...explain your case and that it fall under fair use, give them 10 days to respond or it will be considered that this matter is closed and over with.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

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Moe Hacken

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2012, 09:59:16 AM »
While I agree with Buddhapi and S.G. that your case should be considered "fair use", I bet I can tell you what Getty is going to be responding with: The terms of use were violated.

Out of curiosity, I decided to search for the Windows 7 End User License Agreement on the web, where it was readily available at:

http://tinyurl.com/75woesg

As Buddhapi mentioned, this is section 3, item (c):

Quote
c. Icons, images and sounds. While the software is running, you may use but not share its icons, images, sounds, and media. The sample images, sounds and media provided with the software are for your non-commercial use only.

However, they would be totally wrong. Your particular use was not commercial. Under the fair use guidelines provided by the U.S. Copyright office, your use has been defined as allowable by precedents set in case law:

Quote
The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”

Source: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Their legal department should be aware of this, but you're probably getting letters from clerks at this point. From what you wrote, it sounds like they're not even being very specific about what has been infringed, when it was infringed, or how.

S.G. is right, their deadlines are moot. They're just trying to scare you into paying them some money they are not due because they assume you're ignorant about the law and will pay out of fear. Once they realize you're not going to roll over for their fatuous claims, they'll probably squirm away. They don't have a track record of taking people to court for such a small amount of money, so the odds are very much in your favor.

S.G.'s suggestion is good because it lets them know you're not ignorant nor afraid of their posturing. The more you read about it, the more you will feel that your position is indeed much stronger than theirs.

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees

Moe Hacken

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2012, 10:44:54 AM »
Forgot to mention, I like Buddhapi's suggestion to give THEM a deadline to respond to you, about as long as the one they're giving you. That will reinforce the notion that you're not afraid of their nonsense and that you're calling them on their bluff.
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alanspicer

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2012, 09:28:03 PM »
For some reason this forum and the entire website are unavailable to me for periods of time. Is that normal? I did detect a DNS abnormality for awhile the web site with www could not be resolved in DNS but it could without www. The web site was still unavailable either way. By the time I check AT&T (Bellsouth) actual DNS servers it was resolving in both of their servers. But this web site still wasn't working. I came back after a bit of cleaning house and it's back working.

Anyway ... I checked on US Copyright web site and I am unable to find a registration for that image by name "Permaquid Lighthouse and Cliffs", nor by the original artists name(s), nor by Getty Images. So I guess like many others it is not registered. That might mean very little, but means something as I have read on here already.

In my opinion the image was modified (fair use stuff ...) two times. Once as a Desktop theme image for Windows 7 with icons and stuff on top of it from Window OS, and again by me by screen shotting it ... and using it as an article by me talking about the Windows 7 RC version.

My Blog is commercial, I don't know if that matters, as a small business in yacht internet connection consulting and equipment sales. I post a lot of things on the blog including a lot of IT and Networking related articles, as well as my Ham Radio adventures. The article in question had nothing to do with business it was just an informational article - like many of mine are. That article became old news whenever the next RC release came out or when Windows 7 was released. And nobody I'm sure cares about it 3 years later. I made no money off of it ... I don't sell Windows products. I have installed Windows and sold computers with Windows already on it and have done consulting and repairs on computers.

Anyway it just amazes me that they came after me for an image of a Windows Desktop with that image as the Wallpaper. It's not like I went looking for an image and did a cust0om wallpaper. It comes as a pre-installed theme. I have my Ham Radio mast and antenna as my Windows 7 wallpaper now :-) My own photo.

Jerry Witt (mcfilms)

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2012, 10:23:16 PM »
@alanspicer I haven't really experienced outages here on the left coast. On rare occasion the site might be down for maintenance, but I can still get to to the maintenance page.

In terms of your situation, you have to do what you are comfortable with. I know if it were me I'd tell them to eff off. Seriously. You take a picture of your computer running MS software and they are coming after you for infringement? This is the problem with them relying on software like PicScout. It finds an image match and gets the ball rolling. I used to assume that a human being would actually verify the validity of the claim. But now I'm starting to think that this whole racket is an automated cash grabbing machine.

If you really feel like tweaking their noses a little bit, you might ask them if you should contact Microsoft to clarify if you are allowed to take screenshots of your computer if it happens to display one of their images. I wonder how Microsoft, who presumably licensed the image for use on your computer, would feel about them hounding you?
Although I may be a super-genius, I am not a lawyer. So take my scribblings for what they are worth and get a real lawyer for real legal advice. But if you want media and design advice, please visit Motion City at http://motioncity.com.

anakin

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2012, 10:37:34 PM »
I know if it were me I'd tell them to eff off. Seriously. You take a picture of your computer running MS software and they are coming after you for infringement? This is the problem with them relying on software like PicScout. It finds an image match and gets the ball rolling. I used to assume that a human being would actually verify the validity of the claim. But now I'm starting to think that this whole racket is an automated cash grabbing machine.
The way this company harasses people, for frivolous reasons - they seem to be ripe for a class action lawsuit. Does anyone know what would be involved in that? It certainly seems like we have enough "class members" in this forum alone.

anakin

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2012, 10:58:07 PM »
Well after searching the forum I see that the idea of a class action suit is hardly new. It's hard for me to believe it would be considered legal to be basically harass people they know they have no legal claim against just to extort money, as this case pretty well is an example of, as well as mine - so I would think it would be possible to make a case for damages in those cases.
But I'm not a lawyer so i'm sure Oscar would know better.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 11:04:25 PM by anakin »

alanspicer

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2012, 11:18:32 PM »
I know if it were me I'd tell them to eff off. Seriously. You take a picture of your computer running MS software and they are coming after you for infringement? This is the problem with them relying on software like PicScout. It finds an image match and gets the ball rolling. I used to assume that a human being would actually verify the validity of the claim. But now I'm starting to think that this whole racket is an automated cash grabbing machine.
The way this company harasses people, for frivolous reasons - they seem to be ripe for a class action lawsuit. Does anyone know what would be involved in that? It certainly seems like we have enough "class members" in this forum alone.

I think an industry has been created ... a market ... that someone can lock up. It's big business, no doubt. And who's going to argue over enforcing copyrights ... certainly not the photographers. But I doubt that the actual image owners realize that they might be being sold down the river along with the rest of us in the name of huge corporate profits. But hey, class action might still work. I think I would join the class. Who is selling who down the river I am not saying. This was just a generalization in line with the topic matter of this forum and web site.

PicScout - an Israeli company - the one that makes the technology available to find alleged copyright infringed images - was purchased by Getty Images. That should tell you how big it is. Probably thought to be akin to the Industrial Revolution ... make it possible to find the infringements automatically ... every-Image-body and their Image-brother will want to be a customer. (Actual Image owners) Not knowing how the actual cases are being handled is the "Don't talk to the man behind the curtain" of the 2000's. <- Hopefully that was enough of a paraphrase of the old Oz movie to not be considered infringement by someone.

Build a better mouse (alleged image infringement) trap and the world will beat a path to your door.

The Picscout inventor or starter ... get's his Exit Strategy and probably a Motor Yacht and a Mansion ... and we are just Road Kill on the Information Beltway. I didn't say Superhighway ... is that copyrighted?

alanspicer

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2012, 11:37:37 PM »
@alanspicer I haven't really experienced outages here on the left coast. On rare occasion the site might be down for maintenance, but I can still get to to the maintenance page.

In terms of your situation, you have to do what you are comfortable with. I know if it were me I'd tell them to eff off. Seriously. You take a picture of your computer running MS software and they are coming after you for infringement? This is the problem with them relying on software like PicScout. It finds an image match and gets the ball rolling. I used to assume that a human being would actually verify the validity of the claim. But now I'm starting to think that this whole racket is an automated cash grabbing machine.

If you really feel like tweaking their noses a little bit, you might ask them if you should contact Microsoft to clarify if you are allowed to take screenshots of your computer if it happens to display one of their images. I wonder how Microsoft, who presumably licensed the image for use on your computer, would feel about them hounding you?

Thank you for your response. It just happened again  in the middle of posting on here. In another IE window the site was reloadable. (conspiracy theorist go away :-)) Funky things with DNS or IE quirks, I dunno.

Thanks for your other comments on my case ... I concur ... thanks for the feedback.

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2012, 11:59:42 PM »
I know the class action question has been brought up quite a bit and I wondered the same thing myself when I first received my letter but I don't think we'll see a suit in the states in the near future. Unfortunately, it is my opinion that while unethical, what Getty is doing is inside the law. However, I feel strongly that we can fight back by filing complaints with the Atty. Gen.'s office and the BBB. I do want to clarify about filing a complaint with the Atty. Gen. you should not do this just to file a complaint, as Matthew has said you must truly believe that you have been wronged and be willing to sign your name to the complaint. Don't put anything in the complaint that you would not want anyone else to read as all complaints at the Atty. Gen.'s office are public. Perhaps if enough complaints reached the Atty. Gen. about Getty they will investigate it.

There is a class-action lawsuit against Getty that is just been filed over in Israel and you can read about it here.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/class-action-suit-filed-against-getty-images-master-delegate-in-israel/


Well after searching the forum I see that the idea of a class action suit is hardly new. It's hard for me to believe it would be considered legal to be basically harass people they know they have no legal claim against just to extort money, as this case pretty well is an example of, as well as mine - so I would think it would be possible to make a case for damages in those cases.
But I'm not a lawyer so i'm sure Oscar would know better.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

stinger

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Re: Hello and I just got a letter from Getty
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2012, 11:18:40 AM »
alan, welcome to the forum.

If you get as fed up as many of us here with Getty's mass mail money printing program, don't be afraid to tell your story on video to Jerry Witt(mcfilms) who is considering doing a documentary on this colossal waste of human activity and brain power.

Maybe if we make enough people aware of the injustice, including clients of Getty's like Microsoft, someone will find the legal line on the class action suit to make this all go away.

 

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