ExtortionLetterInfo Forums
ELI Forums => Getty Images Letter Forum => Topic started by: dionesiamn on July 19, 2013, 10:36:19 AM
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I've looked for information about this but can't find it. I received a getty c/d letter for use of an image on my non-commercial website. A few years ago I started a website based on a character I created (my daughter's guinea pig named Yuki) and wrote and illustrated some books for her about the pet. In an effort to learn web design I created the site and used it for what I describe as a sandbox for learning coding.
To that end, I attempted to learn how to create a shopping cart just to see how it worked using the books as sample "merchandise." They were the only "thing" I could think to use as merchandise as I don't and never have had a business. The site was never promoted and as the books were never published or mass produced (they are strictly handmade) I never sold any.
Since the creation of the site I have only used it as a playground for my own purposes and paid little attention to the areas I made including the "shopping cart." The site evolved into a conglomeration of disassociated topics on which I posted a photo that I took from a website (not Getty) unaware that it is alledgedly owned by Getty.
In June I recieved a c/d letter from Getty with a demand for $875. Apparently because of the bogus shopping cart they perceived my site as a company owned business. The letter is addressed to the "Legal department of Yuki Books." ha!
I immediately removed the offending photo and to avoid further confusion I removed the books page as well; as I said, I am not operating a business. I wrote to Getty using a mailing address I found on the internet explaining this. Yesterday I received another letter (more threatening) demanding payment with no mention of my letter.
Has anyone else had the problem of being misconstrued as a business? Have you had any luck in explaining this to Getty?
Any advice? I don't have any proof that they actually own the photo and although I found it using the number provided on their site (this is not where I got the photo) how do i know they didn't download the photo from the same source I did? And I don't understand their pricing it looks like the use of the photo is $120 if I had purchased. If I assume they actually do own it, how about just sending them $120 and see if they cash my check?
Thanks so much.
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This is a good example of what happens when people jump the gun and respond, before getting educated...they sent the letter to legal dept @ yuji books, which on paper does not exist, they can't sue a non-existant company, but now that you replied to them, they now have a name other than a bogus cmade uo company name.. They won't take your offer of 120.00, they simply want more. They won't listen to your explanation.. The major mistake you made was "taking the image from another website" i'm hoping you did not explain this getty, as this is basically an admission of guilt in their eyes.. I suggest reading more info here, getting educated, then make a decison on how to proceed...keep in mind they will keep hounding you for the next 3 yrs., If you can't stomach that thought, you can always pay them, or enlist in Oscar's letter program..
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Robert is spot on in his advice, read up and get educated, ask questions. I would not respond until you learn more about Getty and their tactics.
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So what I hear is, I should just settle up? I did read about Getty and on other forums/blogs, but I fell victim to advice that said to write them?
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There is nothing wrong with writing to them, I did so and got them to leave me alone but I did not send anything until I understood the process and what I could expect to happen. You have made it more difficult for yourself by engaging them before educating yourself, let us know what you said and we may be able to offer an opinion as to the direction you should take.
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Maybe I said too much in the letter. Here's the text.
Dear Sir or Madam:
Yesterday, June 17, 2013, I received a cease and desist letter from Getty where in you state I was using an image owned by Getty to allegedly promote and market my business. My website is xxxxxxxx and the image in question was used on a subpage: xxxxxxx.
The use of this image was unintentional and I immediately removed it from the site and the server.
Allow me to explain that I am not a business owner and never have been. This site was used as a training ground to learn web construction by my daughter and me. The site was built using information about my daughter’s guinea pig, Yuki, and his life. Several years ago I had written some books about Yuki as a gift to my daughter. The books were never published, were strictly homemade, were never marketed and consequently none were ever sold. Any pages pertaining to their sale were pages constructed to teach us how to build forms, do pop-ups and route information to a database or email. That is where the Yuki books started and ended. It was not a business. The site has very few, if any, visitors.
The page on which the image appeared on the site was a page I wrote about a spoof on evolution, had nothing to do with the rest of the site and was shared with friends and family only. The kangaroo image was taken from a site about kangaroos and there was no mention of the image having belonged to Getty. In building the page I “googled” kangaroo and it was one of the first sites on the results. Of the thousands of images to choose from I, unfortunately and unwittingly, selected one that you supposedly own.
The site later evolved as I was learning Javascript and has been maintained, albeit only minimally, because a friend who is an elementary teacher used the site as a reward to her first graders for good behavior. I, in all honestly, do not know if she still uses it and I have paid little attention to the site.
In good faith, I have removed all pages referring to the Yuki books, so that it is not misconstrued as a business site in the future. If you look at the site I think you will agree that it is esoteric and is of no commercial value. No profit was made from the image nor intended to be made.
I hope you will accept my sincere apologies for this oversight in the use of the image and consider this matter closed.
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I just checked tineye.com and this same image appears in 119 places on the internet. How does one know that Getty even owns this? And how will I know that should I settle up that the "artist" will get compensated?
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I can tell you that Getty will tell you that finding an image by an internet search does not mean it's free, you also admitted taking it from a website. I think you may want to consider citing the Jonathan Klein TechCrunch interview where Mr. Klein states he welcomes people taking their images, playing with them and using them up to the point there is a business model. What you have described sound like what he is saying. You were using the image to learn how to build and operate a website.
Nancy Monson, Douglas Beiker or whatever Getty pen-pal you are dealing with will tell you it doesn't matter but in my opinion I would go at it from this angle.
http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/22/for-pinterest-revenue-will-turn-copyright-questions-into-problems/
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the only thing i'll add here, ,is that I never said to "settle up"...even tho it may have come across that way..
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I appreciate your help very, very much. I wish I had found this forum before I wrote--although I guess I was thinking that Getty was a reasonable entity--and would be less of a bully than their letter suggests. I was wrong apparently.
I will have to think about my next step--not sure if I write again or call or chalk it up to a hard lesson. :(
Thank you all!
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Please keep us posted and let us know what you do and how it goes.
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I have spent the better part of last night and this morning reading info on getty. I also went back and read this site's owner's letters. Unlike Getty's response to his first letter, I received a boilerplate second letter which leads me to believe they didn't recieve or more likely ignored my first letter. Then I looked at the "supporting" documents they sent me and noticed that the screen shot they sent me of my site page with the offending photo also had on it a photo that my husband took. I am going to write them again and ask for proof of their ownership of the offending photo (even though I know what they will say) but also maybe mention that I am sending them a cease and desist order to stop storing my owned image on their server.
I noted that the fee of $875 seems to be a boilerplate amount given that many have been charged this very same amount so that they in all likelihood can not provide an accurate itemized invoice. But I will ask for a breakdown of the price as well.
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strike the part of them copying your page with the image your husband took, it won't serve you.. you don't know they are storing it, and they probably aren't, it's simply a screen shot and would not be considered an infringement.
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IF you've not read this here is some good information on who you are dealing with, you may me under the assumption much as I was after I first got my letter you are dealing with a reasonable and ethic company. You will see that Getty does not care about the who, what, where and why about the image they just want you money whether they have the rights to it or not.
http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/jonathan-klein-and-getty-images-a-history-of-questionable-business-practices/
http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/jonathan-klein-and-getty-images-know-how-to-treat-their-contributors-not/
http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/johnathan-klien-and-getty-images-do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/
I have spent the better part of last night and this morning reading info on getty.
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Just wow! Thank you for the reading and all of your help. I can't believe Getty can still operate and that some AG Office hasn't filed a class action suit. Or that some judge hasn't given them a C&D letter.
I'm just a peon here and I'm afraid that I don't quite understand the Oscar Letter campaign. I watched the video from Matthew but I don't know what you get by retaining him. I don't know, it all kind of sounds hopeless--maybe it's just late and my intestinal fortitude will return tomorrow for doing more on this...sigh, I appreciate all the help you have given me but without knowing outcomes for the thousands of folks embroiled in this mess, one can feel very alone. I guess this is really what feeling bullied is like. It would just be easier to hand over your milk money. You guys didn't and that rocks, I'll have to give this thought.
Thanks again.
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Oscar's letter program is a great value, he knows the copyright law inside and out and has handled over 800+ of these letters. You get a letter sent to Getty which will stop Getty from contacting you directly, they must go through Oscar. Should Getty decide to respond you get a follow up letter. I would consider using Oscar's program if you are not going to fight it yourself and I would certainly do it before I gave a penny to Getty.
If you want to fight it yourself all the information should be here in the forums plus the people here can offer good advice, but you must ultimately decide what is best for you and your situation.
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What you get by retaining Oscar for the letter program, is the peace of mind knowing Getty Images can no longer contact you, nor can the collection agency...any contact must go thru Oscar's Office.. like was stated your other options are to put up with their nonsense for the next three years, or pay them what they are asking for..which would only assist them in sending more letters.
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So I've done more reading and video watching and the Oscar letter program seems a plausible choice. But to clarify and understand:
1. By doing this, I would basically be "retaining" Oscar as legal representative? And if I'm not in New York can he still represent me?
2. Has anyone who as gone this route actually been taken to court?
3. Does Oscar continue to represent you in court (if the matter escalates) or do you need to hire another local attorney?
4. Should I be concerned that at least one other poster has not gotten a reply or return contact from Oscar's legal team?
5. And lastly, since I have already made contact with Getty is this still an option for me?
Thank you so much. This website is the greatest.
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Sorry, I found the answer to question 3. I understand if taken to court I can retain him.
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So I've done more reading and video watching and the Oscar letter program seems a plausible choice. But to clarify and understand:
1. By doing this, I would basically be "retaining" Oscar as legal representative? And if I'm not in New York can he still represent me? - YES
2. Has anyone who as gone this route actually been taken to court? - NO
3. Does Oscar continue to represent you in court (if the matter escalates) or do you need to hire another local attorney? - You would need to further retain Oscar, which is NOT included in the 195.00 letter program..chances are very good it would not go to courth though.
4. Should I be concerned that at least one other poster has not gotten a reply or return contact from Oscar's legal team? - NO, everyone needs to know and remember that Oscar's main business or practice is NOT ELI related, and very few have slipped through the cracks of the 850+ letters he has handled.
5. And lastly, since I have already made contact with Getty is this still an option for me? Yes it is, you can simply tell Getty to not contact you any longer as you have retained council, by law they can't
Thank you so much. This website is the greatest.
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Again, I want to thank you all on this forum for the help. I have prepared and sent my "letters" off to the Defense Letter Program with a request for instructions on how to pay the fee. I didn't see how that was done so I assume they'll let me know once they enroll me. I'll wait and see how this goes. I wish everyonw else the best of luck in dealing with this playground bully.
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You are in good hands, please keep us updated on how everything goes for you. Also feel free to stick around in the forums and participate.
Again, I want to thank you all on this forum for the help. I have prepared and sent my "letters" off to the Defense Letter Program with a request for instructions on how to pay the fee. I didn't see how that was done so I assume they'll let me know once they enroll me. I'll wait and see how this goes. I wish everyonw else the best of luck in dealing with this playground bully.