ExtortionLetterInfo Forums
ELI Forums => Getty Images Letter Forum => Topic started by: artalacarte on February 17, 2013, 06:10:02 PM
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I received a letter from MF a few days ago telling me that I have been using one of their copyrighted photos on my website. They included their own picture and mine. Sure it was! I have a small pet business, whineranddiner.com and I needed a picture of a cat lying down to incorporate into my own picture. So I Googled "cat lying down" and found a picture with no copyright information or watermark and saved it to my photo librairy to use it and I did (I still have the picture in question).
So I immediately took the picture in question down and called MF (Michael Hilsheimer). From the $1940.00 asked in the letter he went down to $900.00 after a 10 minute conversation. I told him that I have not had this picture up on my website for a year (which they claim). I had gone back to Google, Bing and Chrome to find the picture without their watermark I have downloaded and by some weird coincidence it's nowhere to be found again. When I mentionned this to Mr. Hilsheimer he just changed the subject and offered to put me on a payment plan...I told him I did not have $900.00 right and I will get back to him.
What should I do at this point just wait it out? I do not want to pay them because I strongly believe that they seed their pictures to be downloaded, wait a few months so they are removed from image searches and go after small businesses picture - users and contact them about infringement.
Why can I not find that picture with no watermark again anywhere online and why did he drop the fee by half so easily and so fast???
Since this, I spent hours removing and replacing pictures from my website (I have over 100 pages) that could have been questionnable as I "found" them the same way as I found that cat...And I don't even like cats...
Thank you in advance for any advice.
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It's not really a scam.
But, it's scam-like in that they attempt to extort a large sum of money from minor copyright infringements.
Masterfile doesn't have to place any copyright or watermark on its images, strictly speaking.
Additionally, they normally charge for a 1-year license+, even if its been on your site for a single day.
Many people offer a small settlement, maybe 200 dollars.
If it's not accepted, then many people simply wait it out. They keep bugging you for a long time, however.
They're unlikely to escalate this over a single image, and they seem to be busy with bigger things right now.
Be sure to read through prior posts on the forums, MF is well-known on here!
S.G.
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As SG has sent there does not need to be a watermark on a picture for to be copyrighted, if you are getting your images through search engines and it sounds like there are many of them I'm surprise you have only received one letter. It sounds like you have done the right thing by removing all questionable images but I would also suggest that you go to www.archive.org and remove any archive screenshots of your website that may be there as well.
Copyright exists from the moment a photograph is taken in regardless as to whether the image has been registered with the copyright office. All of the paperwork needs to be in order for masterfile to go after you for damages, however masterfile is one of the companies that tend to have all their ducks in a row for the most part although they lost a recent case against Chaga for having their images registered in compilations or groups.
I believe that what SG has said is sound advice and you can make a case for an innocent infringement and offer the $200 as a settlement since you have already admitted to them you took the image from a Google search. Make sure the archive.org is clear of any screenshots from your website so they cannot get multiple images and to send you letters over and then if they do not accept it wait out your three-year statute of limitations. Again I agree with SG and feel that the odds of MasterFail taking you to court over a single image would not be worth it.
Please keep us posted as to what you decide to do and how everything works out.
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Read the forum posts on the subject (especially those at the top of the first forum page) Look at the videos, get educated and don't panic (and Don't pay!)
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I just got off the phone with Mr. Hilsheimer. I did offer him $150.00 at first and then $200.00 but he refused. "My hands are tied and I have to pay my artist" he said. He then said that he could put me on a payment plan for 6 months ($160.00 per month). I told him I could not afford it, and politely left it to that.
He called me back a few minutes later to tell me that I should look into my business insurance which may cover the fee. I don't have a business insurance...So, should I just wait it out at this point?
Thank you all for great information and advice.
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I just got off the phone with Mr. Hilsheimer. I did offer him $150.00 at first and then $200.00 but he refused. "My hands are tied and I have to pay my artist" he said. He then said that he could put me on a payment plan for 6 months ($160.00 per month). I told him I could not afford it, and politely left it to that.
He called me back a few minutes later to tell me that I should look into my business insurance which may cover the fee. I don't have a business insurance...So, should I just wait it out at this point?
Thank you all for great information and advice.
waiting it out will be a long threes years, since he now has you're phone number...I think calling was a mistake, and making it much to easy for them..If you "found" all of your images via a google search don't be surprised if you don't get more letters from Getty Images, and maybe others as well..at least you were proactive in removing anything questionable..
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He could have gotten the phone number off my website where he found the image in question...Thank for your reply Robert.
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He could have gotten the phone number off my website where he found the image in question...Thank for your reply Robert.
My apologies if I came across rude, it wasn't meant to be...yes he could have gotten from your website, chances are good he never went to it or saw it, picscout is completely automated and creates the screen captures that they send along to the trolls...more importanly my point was to not make it easy for them, don't accept their emails or phone calls insist everything be done through the mail...this also serves a second purpose...you'll have complete records of everything, and there is less room for them to slip up this way..
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No offense taken Robert...And yes I will ask them to proceed through the mail. Thank you!
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This is the a claim just received: Any suggestions as what I should do next? Thank you so much...
Please be advised that NCS has been retained by Masterfile Corporation with regard to the settlement of an image infringement claim in the above referenced matter. In that regard, we have been assigned this file, and have attached hereto copies of the letter previously sent by our client together with copies of the unauthorized images and the capture of said images on your website. Our client has attempted to resolve this claim by communicating with your company directly, but has been unable to do so. Our goal is to resolve this claim on an amicable basis, without having to resort to further action in this regard. We do have some flexibility with the amount claimed if this is resolved immediately. Alternatively, if we cannot settle this imminently, we would be obligated to refer the file back to our client for further action including the potential initiation of suit. It would be preferable to settle this matter upon terms agreeable to both parties, and to avoid the time and expense of potential protracted litigation. We trust that we can resolve this amicably, and we look forward to hearing from in this regard upon receipt of this email.
This is an effort to effect a settlement and any information obtained will be used for that purpose.
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this is a "claim" not a debt, nicely tell NCS to pound salt....they have no right pestering you and they know this....you can refer to the following thread for more info
http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/my-response-letter-to-ncs/
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This is the first time I've heard of Masterfile using a debt collection agency. Either I've missed some information or MF is no longer using strictly ever-escalating threats of lawsuits to get money out of folks.
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This is the first time I've heard of Masterfile using a debt collection agency. Either I've missed some information or MF is no longer using strictly ever-escalating threats of lawsuits to get money out of folks.
Hi Mulligan!, good seeing you here and partaking in the conversation! I've seen MF use NCS before...hope you and the missus are well!
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Yes Masterfail uses NCS out of Florida to try to collect. Wait till they start the e-mail. It is most funny. Do not fall for the strong arm Extortion they try but make them an offer like the $200 you already did and then wait them out.
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I would reply back to them letting them know that this is a claim not a debt and you are dealing with Masterfile so do not contact you again. This will kick it back to Masterfile and you won't hear from NCS anymore.
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Yes, MF is definitely using NCS now, and they seem to be getting more belligerent. AFTER I told them (NCS) to leave me alone, I still received a letter and several emails, each progressively more nasty. I informed them that this is a claim that I am disputing, not a debt, that I have requested specific information from MF to substantiate their claims, that MF has not responded to these requests, and to cease all communication with me. I had to demand this three times and threaten to file formal complaints with the AG, BBB, FTC, etc. before they finally stopped. I haven't heard from them, or from MF for several weeks now.
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MF's filed a few Canadian lawsuits in recent months.
It looks as if two of them recently settled out of court.
Enter the word "masterfile in the from:
http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_queries_e.php
S.G.
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After 6 months, now a "recovery specialist" from NCS is back asking me to:
Good afternoon. With regards to the above unsettled matter, please respond to this email with your settlement intentions. As you are aware, over the past several months I have been trying to work with you in resolution but you have yet to respond to my emails". I did respond to someone's e-mails by the way. Thank you in advance for any advice!
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hahah pretty funny...they have no way of knowing if you even get the emails, I say bin it and let them pick up the phone or send certified mail..at which time you can tell them to stuff it, as it's a claim.. If you already told them it is a claim and not a debt, I would advise replyinhg to them and making themn aware that you told them this was NOT a debt and to not contact further, and since they did also advise them, you will be filing a complaint as they are not following the fair debt act...and do just that!
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Pretty sure Robert means "making them aware that you told them this was NOT a debt..."
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Thanks Robert! I will just do that as I already told them that this is not a debt.
And Jerry, yes I'm sure Robert meant not.
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This this what I just got back:
"Please be advised that the FDCPA, Fair Debt & Collections Practices Act is not the governing body in matters such as this. I am attempting to work with you in settlement for the unauthorized use of my clients rights-managed material, otherwise known as copyright infringement. With my last email I requested you respond with your settlement intentions.
Should this matter be released back to my client and their Legal Department for escalation, they will no longer be willing to settle this matter with you."
Any idea what to do about this?
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It's simple.
The only people who can pursue you for copyright infringement through the courts are the copyright holder (photographer) or exclusive licensee (supposedly Getty).
Only the copyright holder can assign those rights elsewhere.
If it is not a debt then NCS have no authority in the matter. I'd tell them to get lost.
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Agreed, it's simple, they have not proven their claim, and as such this still remains as such, I would report them, and include every instance thereafter. This must be a newby with NCS, as we've never heard the reply like this before..If you do report them make sure to name the person that is contacting you as well.
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It might be new to NCS but that's the standard line wheeled off by Atradius in the UK when challenged on their ability to collect a 'debt' for Getty. Seems perhaps Getty is sending all their 'debt collectors' a response to use if anyone asks why they are chasing a debt that doesn't exist.
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I think my response would have to be let's see what the AG and the FTC have to say about this.
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Hello,
They're back...
This is what I got from NCS a couple of days ago:"Good afternoon. As you know a settlement offer has been presented to you in this matter, for $970.00. Although this amount is far less then what my client would expect to receive, or has received in matters such as this, none the less the offer has been made and accepted by Masterfile.
To date, and through several communications with you (nothing in over thirty days), we are no closer in settling then we were when the offer was originally made. With that, and at this time it is important and I am aware of your intentions regarding the settlement to my clients claim, so that I may accurately update my client. If you simply have no intention of settling my client's claim, at their advise, we must rescind our offer and release this claim back to our client and their Legal Department for escalation. Should we release this matter back to Masterfile, I assure you, they will no longer be willing to settle for an amount anywhere close to what they are prepared to accept at this time". I've been telling them to go away (nicely) as this is not a debt...What do you think I should do now??? Thank you!
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This really is not rocket science, we've already told you how to handle NCS, multiple times. They have no say, this is a claim, not a debt, no one has supplied you proof of who owns what..They will continue to grill you until you either act or cave in. Furthermore it's an email, of which they have no idea if you're even getting them, simply report them and be done with them..then get prepared for MF to continue to hassle you or hire Oscar, or just pay them the full amount.
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You also have the option of fighting it yourself. All the information is here on how to do it. If you want to fight I suggest looking at the experiment against Getty thread.
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You also need to step back and understand that when they say,
Should we release this matter back to Masterfile, I assure you, they will no longer be willing to settle for an amount anywhere close to what they are prepared to accept at this time
, it sounds very threatening and scary to you.
What it really means is, "If you won't pay us, we are powerless to make you pay us, and we are going to give this back to Masterfile as uncollectable." It doesn't mean that Masterfile is going to do anything. At best, they might try to give it to another bill collector, but the odds of their filing suit over an amount this small . . . you should be able to figure it out.
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You also need to step back and understand that when they say, Should we release this matter back to Masterfile, I assure you, they will no longer be willing to settle for an amount anywhere close to what they are prepared to accept at this time
, it sounds very threatening and scary to you.
What it really means is, "If you won't pay us, we are powerless to make you pay us, and we are going to give this back to Masterfile as uncollectable." It doesn't mean that Masterfile is going to do anything. At best, they might try to give it to another bill collector, but the odds of their filing suit over an amount this small . . . you should be able to figure it out.
While I mostly agree with this, one other thing that should be considered, is that history tells us MF does file suit more often, and they also seem to have better registrations in place.. Truth is , if the OP doesn't have the stomach or will to continue with the back and forth, it might be best to simply hire Oscar and let him handle it.
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Good point Robert, this is the key. You have to be willing to deal with them if you want to fight it yourself. For me I knew I wanted to fight but everyone must decide what is best for them.
While I mostly agree with this, one other thing that should be considered, is that history tells us MF does file suit more often, and they also seem to have better registrations in place.. Truth is , if the OP doesn't have the stomach or will to continue with the back and forth, it might be best to simply hire Oscar and let him handle it.