ExtortionLetterInfo Forums
ELI Forums => Getty Images Letter Forum => Topic started by: sbritton on June 21, 2012, 05:56:22 PM
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I had prepared the following letter and wanted to get feedback from others. This is related to a single (1) image burried deep in a website.
PAT RUSSO
NCS IP Solutions LLC
5975 Cattleman Lane
PO BOX 50276
Sarasota, FL 34232
Ms Russo,
I have received your request for payment related to your file #XXXXX. Unfortunately I am not aware of any contract or civil judgment in the matter referenced against XXXXXXXXX and therefore we are disputing your claim and request for payment. Unfortunately at this time there is no evidence or documentation to show that there is a debt to be collected.
We have made a number of reasonable attempts to resolve this matter, but unfortunately Getty Images has not established a debt is owed in this case. I’m rather disappointed that this matter has gotten to this point over a single disputed image that was immediately removed after the cease and desist request. At this point it has not even been demonstrated that Getty Images has exclusive rights to the image in question.
I have spent considerable time reviewing the practices of Getty Images and NCS on what many consider to be extortion for alleged copyright issues. We have reviewed the merits of these claims and are very disappointed in the actions being taken. Please be aware that every measure will be taken to ensure our rights are being protected and that you and your agencies are following every requirement under the law.
Under the FDCPA (FDCPA Section 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]) you are required to provide documentation that shows this is a legal debt and prove that you are allowed to collect on behalf of Getty Images.
You are hereby instructed to cease all communication on this matter until the following have been provided. If all of the requested materials are not provided within 30 days, this matter is considered closed and you have relinquished your right to further communicate with us or make any further collection attempts.
Please be aware that it is a violation of FDCPA to send this matter to litigation without timely verification of the debt requested below; reference Spears vs. Brennan. Also it is illegal to report this issue to any credit agency. Any violations of the FDCPA or failure to honor our request to cease communication will be followed by a complaint to the California and Florida District Attorney and the Federal Trade Commission with request for fines and sanctions allowed under the FDCPA.
Until the following are provided, you are instructed to cease all communications on this matter:
1. Comprehensive documentation that shows you have a legal right to collect on this specific case on behalf of Getty Images. Such documentation must demonstrate all communication between your company and Getty Images, any invoices or contracts related to said case, outline of fees and legal obligation between your respective companies. This is to include but not limited to all physical, written or electronic materials. These are required to establish that you have a right to be involved in this matter at all.
2. Written documentation to show original ownership of the disputed image. This should include the name of the artist, best known contact information, date/time the image was created.
3. Written documentation/contract from the artwork’s author releasing all rights and exclusive license to Getty Images. This should include any original signed letters from author/artist, dates, conditions, limitations. It should specifically reference the image in question and not lots or wholesale materials. In other words, the specific image in question must be specifically released exclusively to Getty Images. Claims of confidentiality are irrelevant as they will be subpoenaed should this matter go to trial in order to establish ownership rights.
4. Documentation that shows that the image in question was never licensed to other parties at any point before, during or after Getty Images can demonstrate to have exclusive right to said image.
5. Documentation that shows the image in question was registered with the US Copyright office as protected materials prior to such claims. Said documentation should include but not be limited to the original application for protection and the response granting such protection. The materials must be specific to include the image in dispute and not bulk sets of images.
We are aware of recent comments by Nancy Monson, copyright compliance for Getty Images who states that Getty images does not hold the copyright nor have they registered the vast majority of their images; which I suspect is the case here. As you are surely aware damages in a lawsuit are virtually non-existent unless the image as been registered prior to the alleged violation and a clear chain of ownership has been established.
I’m sure you can understand that the tactics being used by your agency presuming under the direction of Getty Images can be viewed as questionable at best. Unless you can establish that there is a debt owed and you have a legal right to participate in collection efforts there is nothing further to discuss.
I appreciate your help in resolving this matter quickly.
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I think that looks very well written, looks like you took your time and did your research. Please keep us posted on what they say.
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They most likely won't say anything, just send it back to Getty as required by law. I personally would have kept it to the bare minimum that is required and outlined by the FDCP
http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/fair-debt-collection-practices-act-(eli-highlights)/
I think that looks very well written, looks like you took your time and did your research. Please keep us posted on what they say.
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My goal was to show them that we did our homework and fully aware of our rights.
Further that we have a right to see the evidence that there is a debt and it will eventually be requested. By being specific they already know what they are in for and will decide it is not worth the effort to pull the materials together. If they refuse and then file a lawsuit, then they were being uncooperative; not us.
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Thanks BuddhaPi. I don’t remember seeing this thread as I went back over past entries I have found and read the FDCP before while doing research for my case if it goes there but as usual Matthew sums it up beautifully.
Just an FYI the http://extortionletterinfo.com/eli-fdcpa.pdf Link in the article comes up as a 404 not found.
They most likely won't say anything, just send it back to Getty as required by law. I personally would have kept it to the bare minimum that is required and outlined by the FDCP
http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/fair-debt-collection-practices-act-(eli-highlights)/
I think that looks very well written, looks like you took your time and did your research. Please keep us posted on what they say.
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I'm with Robert/Buhappi. Tell them the bare minimum. You don't need to make your full case against getty. Just tell them there is no debt and they have to go away.
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This is closer to what I suggest:
AT RUSSO
NCS IP Solutions LLC
5975 Cattleman Lane
PO BOX 50276
Sarasota, FL 34232
Ms Russo,
I have received your request for payment related to your file #XXXXX. Unfortunately I am not aware of any contract or civil judgment in the matter referenced against XXXXXXXXX and therefore we are disputing your claim and request for payment. I do not owe Getty this money and there no debt to be collected. Please do not contact me again in this matter.
Sincerely,
....
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THIS!
This is closer to what I suggest:
AT RUSSO
NCS IP Solutions LLC
5975 Cattleman Lane
PO BOX 50276
Sarasota, FL 34232
Ms Russo,
I have received your request for payment related to your file #XXXXX. Unfortunately I am not aware of any contract or civil judgment in the matter referenced against XXXXXXXXX and therefore we are disputing your claim and request for payment. I do not owe Getty this money and there no debt to be collected. Please do not contact me again in this matter.
Sincerely,
....
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Sbritton, did you go through a round of letters from the copyright trolling lawyer Timothy B. McCormack of Seattle WA before you heard from NCS?
Or has you case gone from Getty Images to NCS without Timothy B. McCormack and/or his copyright troll paralegal Ashanti A. Taylor?
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Our letters went from Getty straight to NCS. The first response we made to Getty was similar to many here, we removed the images immediately, denied any wrong doing and offered to settle for $200 to expidite the resolution. They rejected that and sent to collections. I'm expecting the lawyers to be the last ones as they generally turn up the heat with their official sounding title.
It's my understanding that the collection agency can't threaten a lawsuit because they can't technically file one. So Getty will try collections first then if collections doesn't get a response the lawyer gets the account and sends more threats with "official" letter head. That technically should be the last stop as the lawyer doesn't have anything else they can do.
On a side note; if Getty does ever file a suit what are the laws about this being in small-claims vs. superior court? Is it a dollar amount that determines this? Also the jurisdiction for the case; since there isn't a contract I would think that the plaintiff would need to file in either the location of the infringement (city where the server exists) or city where the defendant is located. The burden is on the plaintiff and the defendant is presumed innocent...so it would seem jurisdiction should be where it is most convienient for the defendant.
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Timmy McCormack will be next in line, after NCS sends it back.. The dollar amount has nothing to do with anything, copyright infringement is a federal matter, so small claims court does not come into play, and yes IF they filed it would need to be where you are located, which adds to the cost factor..
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Well, hell, I feel really honored because my case went directly from Getty to copyright trolling attorney Timothy B. McCormack and his condescending paralegal Ashanti A. Taylor.
I guess NCS will be next in line to start sending me letters. Oscar mentioned somewhere recently that the extortion machine/scheme typically sends out anywhere from six to twelve letters during the three year period. I think I'm at seven or eight now.
I will of course respond to the initial letter from NCS, should I get one, letting them know that they have no standing to ever contact me again.
As John McEnroe used to say, "What a racket!"
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If you get a letter from a collection agency and ignore it, would they then report you to credit agency? I mean they have no standing as it's not a debt, but could you bait them and then counter-sue them and getty for defamation of credit?
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The original post has been corrected to the new link on Scribd.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/71252305/Fair-Debt-Collection-Practices-Act-ELI-Highlights
You have to download the file to actually see the highlighted text. A Scribd feature bug that doesn't work well with Adobe Acrobat highlights.
Thanks BuddhaPi. I don’t remember seeing this thread as I went back over past entries I have found and read the FDCP before while doing research for my case if it goes there but as usual Matthew sums it up beautifully.
Just an FYI the http://extortionletterinfo.com/eli-fdcpa.pdf Link in the article comes up as a 404 not found.
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Thanks for fixing the link!
The original post has been corrected to the new link on Scribd.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/71252305/Fair-Debt-Collection-Practices-Act-ELI-Highlights
You have to download the file to actually see the highlighted text. A Scribd feature bug that doesn't work well with Adobe Acrobat highlights.
Thanks BuddhaPi. I don’t remember seeing this thread as I went back over past entries I have found and read the FDCP before while doing research for my case if it goes there but as usual Matthew sums it up beautifully.
Just an FYI the http://extortionletterinfo.com/eli-fdcpa.pdf Link in the article comes up as a 404 not found.
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I don't understand why you guys get all this extra attention. My case began with a letter from one of Timothy McCormack's underlings. Nothing from Getty or a bill collector. Is that a bad omen?
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Probably not a bad omen, probably just further proof of how dis-organized, and sloppy Getty images is.. I hope I have included this underlings name on out running list, if not send it to me, as I would just hate to leave anyone out!
I don't understand why you guys get all this extra attention. My case began with a letter from one of Timothy McCormack's underlings. Nothing from Getty or a bill collector. Is that a bad omen?
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Looks to me to be a classic performance measuring exercise.
After initial contact from Getty trying to obtain settlement, divide the remaining claims between different approaches, see which ones bring in the most money so they can focus on that while still using the other approaches on a smaller scale.
How you get divided is probably pot luck and depends which 'copyright enforcer' your claim gets passed to.
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This is a great conversation. The group is basically reverse-engineering Getty's "business model".
It's very credible that the varied "enforcement" tactics are arranged like focus groups. Or "fuck-us groups", if you will.
Newbies, DON'T GIVE IN. Educate yourselves and fight them. They only look big on paper, their minds are the size of peas.
Unless you infringed intentionally. Then you better lawyer up, beef up your negotiating skills, or move somewhere that doesn't have extradition treaties with the U.S. No one here has any sympathy for people who steal knowingly.
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You already have my lawyer listed. Let's see, I:
- skipped Getty
- skipped the collection agency
- skipped the paralegals, and
- went straight to an attorney.
I must have been very, very BAD!
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Perhaps, they're split testing schemes to determine which pattern brings in the most money...
But that would require sophisticated thinking and tracking and statistical analysis, and judging from the quality of letters coming from Getty's compliance interns and McCormack paralegals high level thinking and intelligence is not a job requirement.
Stinger, mine was Getty then McCormack. Next I expect a round from NCS... or maybe from the Vatican. They haven't tried getting the Pope involved yet...
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This is a business model. Any business model from a company as large as Getty will have an element of research & development and ongoing testing. I'm sure they didn't spend a lot of money investing in Picscout just to have a jumbled approach. There is obviously serious money in this approach so there must be at least a rough outline of a business plan.
Perhaps the approach is slightly simpler in that internal interns will take the first x amount of copyright cases, lawyers the next x amount and any spillage goes to a debt recovery company.
This is of course all speculative but usually there is method in the madness where so much money is involved.
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You already have my lawyer listed. Let's see, I:
- skipped Getty
- skipped the collection agency
- skipped the paralegals, and
- went straight to an attorney.
I must have been very, very BAD!
That's pretty funny. I wouldn't take it personally. These trolls just see us as a checkbook with a phone number and/or mailing address. They just try different things and maybe keep track of the mess they're making to see what works best for the least effort and expense.
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This is closer to what I suggest:
AT RUSSO
NCS IP Solutions LLC
5975 Cattleman Lane
PO BOX 50276
Sarasota, FL 34232
Ms Russo,
I have received your request for payment related to your file #XXXXX. Unfortunately I am not aware of any contract or civil judgment in the matter referenced against XXXXXXXXX and therefore we are disputing your claim and request for payment. I do not owe Getty this money and there no debt to be collected. Please do not contact me again in this matter.
Sincerely,
....
This reply is excellent. I was going to go into the same long explanation that I sent to Getty two times before, so this saved me a lot of energy. Thanks everyone for such great data as I slog through the process and continue to resist.
Happy Holidays everyone ;D
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Keep fighting!