ExtortionLetterInfo Forums

ELI Forums => Getty Images Letter Forum => Topic started by: Surfrider on April 26, 2012, 10:57:24 PM

Title: Newbie to the club
Post by: Surfrider on April 26, 2012, 10:57:24 PM
Hi we got a letter the other day. So we join your exclusive club. Two images that were used in a mock up and were exposed while testing and the site got scanned. Since it was in development both sections of that page and the images were removed long before we got the letter.

I have several questions but one in particular, what does it mean on their site when pricing an image "Exclusivity: No Exclusivity"? "Contact us for exclusivity."

I've been reading a lot here and watching the video's and reading case transcripts. Thanks to you all for providing this.

It sounds pretty much like the options are, take a risk and see if they take you to court and put up with debt collectors, or try to negotiate a reduction and let it be an expensive lesson, or litigate it and let it be a very expensive lesson.

Am I in the ball park?

I like everyone here scratch their heads and wonder how do they come up with nearly a $1000. for a low res tiny image? If only I could sell an image for a $1000.!

Being a writer, designer and photographer like many here I respect copyright and trademarks.

Geez a C&D letter would have been plenty and we could have responded, thanks that was a mock up page in development and had already been taken and the content changed.

Thanks...
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Matthew Chan on April 26, 2012, 11:25:25 PM
Their insane numbers are designed to be profit centers, not simply loss recovery, with LOTS of room to negotiate. The collection clerks are in the "sales business" of trying to close these extortion letters.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Surfrider on April 26, 2012, 11:52:59 PM
Thanks, yes I hope there is room, they did drop some but not enough.

So, as this is similar to the post about 2Clients, this is also my client who received the letter and obviously my financial responsibility, but as I understand it they won't discuss the case with me correct?
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on April 27, 2012, 07:03:08 AM
Might not work, but you try explaining to them the image was used as a plaeholder, before the site was live and was removed well before you got the letter, and then as an added bonus supply them with the link of their very own CEO on VIDEO stating he doesn't mind people using the images, as long as they are not making money from them...

They may very well drop the whole thing rather than risk more embarassment with the video
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Surfrider on April 27, 2012, 07:31:54 AM
My, my now isn't that interesting, I don't suppose you have a direction you can point me towards in order to view this gem? I did an initial gsearch and saw one about building one's company, is that it?

You folks are just fantastic!
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on April 27, 2012, 08:00:14 AM
refer to this post

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/the-hypocrite-of-the-century!/

I need to see if I can grab this video in case it disappears some day..
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Linnea on April 27, 2012, 10:36:43 AM
refer to this post

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/the-hypocrite-of-the-century!/

I need to see if I can grab this video in case it disappears some day..

I found you all while doing some research for a friend who received a Getty letter.  I've directed him here, but I wanted to offer this public link to the mp4 of that interview (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/529517/techcrunch.com.For%20Pinterest%2C%20Revenue%20Will%20Turn%20Copyright%20Questions%20Into%20Real%20Problems%20%7C%20TechCrunch.mp4) as an initial thank you for all the hard work that you've clearly put in over the years.  Keep fighting the good fight! 
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on April 27, 2012, 10:51:14 AM
Awesome Linnea, thanks for jumping right in!
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Mulligan on April 27, 2012, 11:08:50 AM
Linnea, thanks for sharing that mp3, which I just downloaded to my computer. That's one interview that I suspect will "mysteriously" disappear from the web. Getty Images does NOT want the dynamite in that one to go off.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Surfrider on April 27, 2012, 12:24:53 PM
Excellent guys thank you! I saved a copy as well. I will view it this evening when I get home.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Linnea on April 27, 2012, 12:33:54 PM
Just remember that the rights to that video belong to TechCrunch!    :D
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Peeved on April 27, 2012, 02:07:43 PM
Just remember that the rights to that video belong to TechCrunch!    :D

lol! Awesome!
 ;D

I would so love to hear the response from Getty to this one!
http://techcrunch.com/tag/getty-images/

...... and then as an added bonus supply them with the link of their very own CEO on VIDEO stating he doesn't mind people using the images, as long as they are not making money from them...

They may very well drop the whole thing rather than risk more embarassment with the video
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Surfrider on April 27, 2012, 06:18:03 PM
Well I believe we will be quoting Jonathan in our response. I thank you for providing that link.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Matthew Chan on April 28, 2012, 03:52:04 AM
Linnea is absolutely correct. It's okay to keep a backup copy on your PC "just in case". But until the day TechCrunch takes the video down, we should use the TechCrunch video if at all possible.

This video will be a long-time classic for us. I was simply amazed when I first saw this video.

Just remember that the rights to that video belong to TechCrunch!    :D
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on April 28, 2012, 07:06:13 AM
Not to mention TechCrunch will probably keep the video up if it is generating traffic, who knows, maybe someone from TechCrunch will see the hits coming from ELI and eventually come here for a visit and maybe do a little story on our fight.

Linnea is absolutely correct. It's okay to keep a backup copy on your PC "just in case". But until the day TechCrunch takes the video down, we should use the TechCrunch video if at all possible.

This video will be a long-time classic for us. I was simply amazed when I first saw this video.

Just remember that the rights to that video belong to TechCrunch!    :D
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Surfrider on April 29, 2012, 01:13:35 AM
Yes, certainly intend to use proper citation.  :)
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Greg Troy (KeepFighting) on April 29, 2012, 10:06:57 AM
Please keep us posted as to Getty's response.  It will be interesting to see what they say.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: maccaz on April 29, 2012, 05:54:57 PM
Since it was in development both sections of that page and the images were removed long before we got the letter.

Sorry to hear you have been dragged into this mess. I took down images from a website after I realised they were from google images and after research some were from stock companies. I took mine down nearly a year ago and no sign of a letter yet. So Im wondering how long had your images been down before your letter arrived.

I just want to stop thinking that I might get a letter. The site is off deleted from the waybackmachine

Many thanks
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Surfrider on April 29, 2012, 07:15:36 PM
Within ten to fourteen days. I just had turned it on to do a demo and get some feedback on the layout, left alive too long. Plus I also just enabled xmap for a site map for google web tools and I suppose that made it more visible. I obviously went back and disabled that and removed the reference file for the google web tools and remove the web tools link to the site until I'm ready, as that was too soon to enable that with the site not ready.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: maccaz on April 29, 2012, 11:24:02 PM
Hey surfrider

do you mean the images were only up for 10 to 14 days? Or the images had been taken down 10 to 14 days before the letter arrived? In your initial post you said the images were down quite a while before the letter arrived. I was wondering how long before the letter arrived had you removed them from the site? Was it a few months after you removed the images that the letter arrived?

thanks again  ;)
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Surfrider on May 01, 2012, 09:37:00 PM
Best I can estimate I left the site online for about 10-14 days. I should have taken it back offline within a few days but I forgot. I had been working on the changes in the background, then took it offline removed the old content and reloaded new content. All the old articles and images related to that design were removed at that time from the server. I have a habit of keeping the server public side clean.

I believe it was about 2-3 weeks later we got the letter.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Jerry Witt (mcfilms) on May 02, 2012, 05:01:59 PM
How I would handle this:

Explain to them very clearly that this was a development site and was never intended to be public-facing. The images were F.P.O. (for placement only) while you waited for approval. Point them to the video of the Getty CEO stating that they are fine with people using their images in such a way. Tell them you purchase stock footage from stock companies, but you will not be extorted for something the head of their company himself is a legitimate use.

Ask them to please clarify their position. If they insist on continuing on their present course you will have to cease doing business with Getty and their affiliate companies and escalate this issue to the CEO of Getty and ask him to clarify the company's position.

That ought to get everyone over there squirming.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on May 02, 2012, 05:12:17 PM
I can see those troll like intern clerks, looking very confused when you mention Klein, they probably don't even know his name, being the bottom feeders they are..
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Matthew Chan on May 03, 2012, 02:03:35 AM
Very nice customized and high-credibility approach.  I like it. Too bad most of the hourly collection clerks might be too stupid to know any better unless it gets escalated to Lisa Willmer.

How I would handle this:

Explain to them very clearly that this was a development site and was never intended to be public-facing. The images were F.P.O. (for placement only) while you waited for approval. Point them to the video of the Getty CEO stating that they are fine with people using their images in such a way. Tell them you purchase stock footage from stock companies, but you will not be extorted for something the head of their company himself is a legitimate use.

Ask them to please clarify their position. If they insist on continuing on their present course you will have to cease doing business with Getty and their affiliate companies and escalate this issue to the CEO of Getty and ask him to clarify the company's position.

That ought to get everyone over there squirming.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Jerry Witt (mcfilms) on May 03, 2012, 12:49:34 PM
This is where you could really make use of a petulant voice, "I don't have time for this. Let me speak to your superior." If you just keep driving this point home and forcing this up the chain of command, I am certain they will back off this. (As long as what you said about the time frame and the use is accurate.)

If it were me I would drive it all the way to get Jonathan Klein on the horn. I would record everything and let them know you were doing so. I would also spend some time reporting what was happening back to TechCrunch. I know the prospect of paying hundreds of dollars for a simple mistake is scary, but you are in the unique position of being able to really have fun* with it.

*If your idea of fun is making the CEO og a copy-troll company clearly define his company policy and either reverse himself or scream his head off at the minion who decided to pursue this non-issue.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Surfrider on May 03, 2012, 01:10:49 PM
Without disclosing much at this point, mc our minds were running on a similar path. :)
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Jerry Witt (mcfilms) on May 03, 2012, 01:16:14 PM
This is where you could really make use of a petulant voice, "I don't have time for this. Let me speak to your superior." If you just keep driving this point home and forcing this up the chain of command, I am certain they will back off this. (As long as what you said about the time frame and the use is accurate.)

If it were me I would drive it all the way to get Jonathan Klein on the horn. I would record everything and let them know you were doing so. I would also spend some time reporting what was happening back to TechCrunch. I know the prospect of paying hundreds of dollars for a simple mistake is scary, but you are in the unique position of being able to really have fun* with it.

*If your idea of fun is making the CEO of a copy-troll company clearly define his company policy and either reverse himself or scream his head off at the minion who decided to pursue this non-issue.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Matthew Chan on May 03, 2012, 07:54:43 PM
Again, I like this.  Although, I am not so sure I could muster up a petulant voice given my quiet and demure demeanor.  ::)

This is where you could really make use of a petulant voice, "I don't have time for this. Let me speak to your superior." If you just keep driving this point home and forcing this up the chain of command, I am certain they will back off this. (As long as what you said about the time frame and the use is accurate.)

If it were me I would drive it all the way to get Jonathan Klein on the horn. I would record everything and let them know you were doing so. I would also spend some time reporting what was happening back to TechCrunch. I know the prospect of paying hundreds of dollars for a simple mistake is scary, but you are in the unique position of being able to really have fun* with it.

*If your idea of fun is making the CEO of a copy-troll company clearly define his company policy and either reverse himself or scream his head off at the minion who decided to pursue this non-issue.
Title: Re: Newbie to the club
Post by: Mulligan on May 04, 2012, 10:51:53 AM
... I am not so sure I could muster up a petulant voice given my quiet and demure demeanor.  ::)

That's like calling Hurricane Katrina a gentle spring shower! :)