ExtortionLetterInfo Forums
ELI Forums => Getty Images Letter Forum => Topic started by: stinger on October 25, 2012, 02:20:24 PM
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I discovered an interesting page today while reviewing the white house web site that lets citizens sign petitions designed to get the government to act on things deemed necessary by the people.
I am not sure how well this works, but am wondering if there is any interest in pursuing this in the ELI community. Here is a link to the page. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/
This may all be rendered moot by the next election. However, this kind of thing is catching on around the world. Here is an article about how the concept of getting people more involved in government is catching on in Finland. http://singularityhub.com/2012/10/24/finlands-next-laws-to-emerge-from-online-crowdsourced-proposals/
At least this subject might be worth some discussion.
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I've seen several of these petitions started including one on the page you reference, they never seem to get any traction, I personally don't have time to spearhead an effort to hammer away at something like this to get signatures..the other thing you have to remember, is that Getty Images is most certainly sleeping with some of these DC politicians.
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I agree with Robert. While well-intentioned, most of those petitions are poorly written, too narrow in scope, and don't take into consideration some of the larger issues/arguments for it to mean anything. Because of the way they are written, they also lack credibility.
This might sound a bit egotistical, but probably the only way I would actively and enthusiastically support any copyright trolling petition is one that I either wrote or was heavily involved in simply because I cannot throw my support over a petition that sounds either ridiculous, not credible, or offbase.
As far as I am concerned, fighting off the stock photo copyright extortionists is so simple now given the extensive research and reporting that has been done by ELI the last 4 years.
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Petition the U.S. government to change something that is benefiting corporations and the $995 an hour lawyers working for them?
That's an exercise in futility equivalent to draining the Atlanta Ocean with a straw and a single breathful of suction. IMO, of course. :)
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Sorry guys! Some times I wear my idealist hat too long and it affects me. Good idea, just not in this world!
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Stinger,
We weren't putting down your idea. It is just that the current implementations and executions we have seen were poorly done. Nothing wrong with petitions. It is a great tool I would absolutely use in the right circumstances. I am just not that enamored with the idea as it specifically relates to ELI's efforts.
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I was someone who didn't hold out too much hope for Greg's idea of pestering the state attorney generals. But I think that strategy has been proven somewhat effective. There is truly no "wrong way" of doing this. I think if a hundred minds (or more) are all attacking trolling from different angles, it will some day lead to the extinction of trolls.
If you DO set up a petition, I will sign it.
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I was someone who didn't hold out too much hope for Greg's idea of pestering the state attorney generals. But I think that strategy has been proven somewhat effective. There is truly no "wrong way" of doing this. I think if a hundred minds (or more) are all attacking trolling from different angles, it will some day lead to the extinction of trolls.
If you DO set up a petition, I will sign it.
I would sign it as well, I've signed others already... I'd love to see someone actually spearhead this and put forth the effort that would be needed to get enough signatures to be meaningful, it would need to be a social media blitz, to get that momentum..
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I would sign it if it was crafted thoughtfully and made legal sense. Here's an initiative that I like and I think could apply to images and music as well as P2P file-sharing:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/18/tech/web/copyright-alert-system/index.html
This seems fair at first blush. If a person is warned and insists on infringing, I have no sympathy for them. YouTube does something similar with the music on video soundtracks. They even give you a fair chance to dispute the claim of infringement.
I actually received a "false positive" warning from YouTube on the music soundtrack of a video I put together for a local youth sports event. I put the music together using Apple Garage Band canned loops. This is expressly permitted by Apple, even for commercial work. Some outfit claimed a copyright on the music and named some kind of electronic dance jive as the work that was being infringed.
When I corrected them about the music, they backed off without any further ado. Maybe the electronic dance jive included some Garage Band loops. I couldn't sit through the whole thing to find out where there could have been a match. ;D
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At first blush I liked that idea too. But it does seem a little like "Big Brother" tracking down your IP address to tell you you are suspected of copyright infringement. And I'm not sure why a person who insists they are innocent should have to pay $35 to have their case reviewed. (I know if that happened to me I would switch ISPs so fast it would make the accusers head spin.)
But that said, the process of a warning first and then escalating the communication is so much better than what the copyright trolls are doing. Their business model of "ready, shoot, aim" is nowhere near what the motion picture and recording industry are talking about here. I can't see the GI's and MFers of the world getting behind this idea. Their initial contact is pretty "grabby" making it clear that removing infringing material is not enough for them. But lets just say more legitimate businesses: content creators, publishers, and maybe even ISPs and the government may see this as a reasonable solution.
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Tell you what, if the current administration wins the election, I will take a stab at a petition on this web site. If not, we will wait and see what the next administration intends to do with it.
The more I look at this site, the more I think it is Obama's sorry attempt to deliver on his campaign promise of transparency in government.
Let's see where the election takes us.
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Stinger, can't wait to read the petition! I'd like to suggest the requirement of a non-threatening cease-and-desist warning before any other action is taken. With so many orphan works and baitpaper sites out there, it would be one way to level the playing field.
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Yeah Stringer, it looks like you "elected" yourself. Please keep us posted.
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I am going to try to get to it this week. I will keep you all posted.
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Am having some difficulty getting started with this. To submit a petition, one first needs a profile.
The profile process requires the White House to send you an email which lets them verify your email address. Have been waiting for hours to get the email that was supposed to arrive in "minutes". I checked with spam blockers and don't see anything.
Maybe our current administration has decided to make this harder because of all the petitions they have gotten with thousands of signatures to allow states to quietly secede from the union.
While I am losing faith in this government to get this web site working, I have not lost faith in our cause. I will keep at it. If anyone has any suggestions, I am all ears.
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Patience and persistence my friend, I went through the same thing trying to get anyone to acknowledge me and my request for information from the SEC. Remember this is the government and it moves slowly and inefficiently most of the time (regardless of who is in office) . If this is something you want keep at it until someone takes notice. Let me know when the petition is available and I will be happy to sign it.
Am having some difficulty getting started with this. To submit a petition, one first needs a profile.
The profile process requires the White House to send you an email which lets them verify your email address. Have been waiting for hours to get the email that was supposed to arrive in "minutes". I checked with spam blockers and don't see anything.
Maybe our current administration has decided to make this harder because of all the petitions they have gotten with thousands of signatures to allow states to quietly secede from the union.
While I am losing faith in this government to get this web site working, I have not lost faith in our cause. I will keep at it. If anyone has any suggestions, I am all ears.
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I am beginning to wonder if someone in our federal government did not purposely disable the process to get a profile so that you could put up a petition on the white house site.
The official white house position is that any petition getting 30,000 signatures in 30 days will be reviewed by the government. According to the article below, since the Dems won the election, at least 25 states have petitioned to secede from the union. Texas has 60,000 signatures already. Letting the Republican states leave could be great for the Democratic party in years to come. :-\
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/rick-perry-secession_n_2120453.html
I've posted a problem report on the white house site, but have heard nothing in 24 hours. Is this inept site management or are they overwhelmed with the types of requests they never expected?
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I am beginning to wonder if someone in our federal government did not purposely disable the process to get a profile so that you could put up a petition on the white house site.
The official white house position is that any petition getting 30,000 signatures in 30 days will be reviewed by the government. According to the article below, since the Dems won the election, at least 25 states have petitioned to secede from the union. Texas has 60,000 signatures already. Letting the Republican states leave could be great for the Democratic party in years to come. :-\
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/rick-perry-secession_n_2120453.html
I've posted a problem report on the white house site, but have heard nothing in 24 hours. Is this inept site management or are they overwhelmed with the types of requests they never expected?
probably a bit of both...inept site management ( it is our government!) and they have been getting hammered by alot of individuals seeking to secede...as if that will go anywhere..
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Well, here it is friends. I have put up a petition on the White House web site to call on the government to end the practice of copyright trolling. We only need 24,999 more signatures in the next 30 days to get our government officials to actually take a look at this.
Besides signing, please share this link on any social media sites you can.
Any of you SEO experts out there, whatever you could do to popularize this petition, will be greatly appreciated.
This can give us a good idea of how far ELI's reach actually is.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/work-modify-copyright-laws-end-predatory-practice-copyright-trolling/3cGn2JFL
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Done!
FYI the last petition got a whopping 65 signatures...
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That's why we need social sites and some SEO help.
I will be blogging about it next week. I sent a copy to Ryan Healy and hope he decides to blog about it as well.
Signing is not enough. We have to sign and popularize it. I wonder if AuctionApril could get us any radio coverage about the petition?
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certainly worth asking, send he a PM, I tweeted it, like it, shared it with my closest 2200 friends...if anyone else want to blog about it but need a platform, copyright-trolls.com is available...I'll probably do a post or 2 myself..
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I wonder if Matt or the ELI team to could send an email to anyone who has ever signed up for the forum, asking them to sign the petition and spread the word to social media?
Do you think that might be possible?
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Done! I will let my friends know about it as well.
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Done. Shared it on Facebook. Will email friends and family. Nice work, Stinger!
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I am amazed at how few people have actually filled out our petition. Can you guys supply any thoughts as to why?
I know that the sign-up process is a little more cumbersome than it needs to be, and it leads the paranoid like me to think that my email address will end up on the wrong end of political mailings, but really, there has to me more to it than that.
Tens of thousands of people are signing up for state secession petitions. And we can only get 54?
What do we need to do to make this thing go viral?
Here is the petition address again.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/work-modify-copyright-laws-end-predatory-practice-copyright-trolling/3cGn2JFL
You are allowed to sign it once for each email address you possess. That's also true of your friends and their friends.
Here is another similar petition that I would recommend you sign while on the site.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/limit-copyright-law-only-apply-commercial-use-works-allow-people-freely-share-all-kinds-media/JsPY0dHm
Let's get this thing moving this week.
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@Buddhapi, Well Robert we got to 65 signatures in 3 days - so we will likely beat the last petition.
Unfortunately, to be on pace we need 1000/day. Simply asking for signatures, does not seem to get the job done. I've personally asked way more than 65 people.
So what will it take to really get this thing out there? I'm looking for ideas.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/work-modify-copyright-laws-end-predatory-practice-copyright-trolling/3cGn2JFL
I have even come to the conclusion that you do not need to be a U.S. citizen to sign this petition. So sign it once for every email address you have and then start asking everyone you know to sign it.
Feel free to copy the email I've quoted below and send it to everyone in your address book, and ask them to do the same. Together, we CAN make a difference.
Eliminate the practice of copyright trolling.
If you publish anything today, digital or print, and you have not been accused of piracy by a copyright troll, consider yourself lucky. It does not matter what safeguards you have in place, you will eventually be accused of copyright infringement and threatened with some very expensive legal action.
Here is one guy's experience: http://www.ryanhealy.com/getty-images-extortion-letter/
Don't make the mistake of thinking this is an isolated incident. A google search of the term "copyright troll" yields over 102,000,000 article links, and that number is climbing every day.
This web site http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/ exists simply to help people fight these actions.
I have proposed a different and simpler solution. I am petitioning the U.S. government to modify copyright laws by requiring copyright enforcers to first ask the alleged first time infringer to cease and desist infringing.
It's a simple and clean solution to a growing problem. Here's where you come in. The U.S. government requires 25,000 signatures to the petition by December 14th in order to consider the petition. You can view and sign the petition here: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/work-modify-copyright-laws-end-predatory-practice-copyright-trolling/3cGn2JFL
I also ask that you share this petition with your friends and acquaintances on social media sites to make more people aware of the problem and raise government awareness.
The government does require you to register before signing the petition. They don't ask for much information. You can abbreviate your name to remain somewhat anonymous, but they do require a working email address. I have not seen any email abuses.
Thanks for your time and your potential help in making our government more aware of this issue.
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I signed it, shared it, and tweeted it. But that mountain of getting 25,000 signatures is an awfully big hill to climb. I'm not too sure how I feel about signing it multiple times. I think instead of doing that, I'll work on a "get out the vote" (or signature) campaign.
Everyone talks about making something go viral. But unfortunately there isn't really a way to do it. You just have to tenaciously keep after it. Here are some things I hope to try, but I hope others with an interest in this will also try:
• Visit other copyright trolling forums and threads and post a link to the petition.
• Direct tweet some people with large numbers of followers and ask them to recommend it.
• Email influential bloggers and ask for some coverage. (I am thinking of Matthew Inman. One blog post or cartoon from him on theoatmeal.com could make a huge difference. Who else?)
Those ideas just take a little time and cost no money.
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Jerry, I agree and I like the way you are thinking.
One of the things I have found so far in my four day campaign is that this is a relatively complex issue for people to understand. I have had a number of people ask me to better explain it.
However, if you put together enough information for them to see the issue from a number of sides, it overwhelms them. Many people will sign just because you ask. Others will need to be convinced. Where it gets real difficult is when you ask someone to pass it on and ask others.
I don't have the message packaged in enough of a concise and emotional way to get people to pass it around and give it a chance to get viral.
That's where we really need the ideas.
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I agree that making the verbiage tighter, more compelling wouldn't hurt. But it's nice to see it in action.
Maybe it is gaining traction. Andrew Couts writes about technology. He was one of the people I was going to direct tweet to, but did not have a chance. Someone (mrcproductivity) beat me to it and Andrew tweeted the link to the petition.
(http://motioncity.com/test2/tweet.png)
Let's hope this trend continues.
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That is awesome! :D
I agree that making the verbiage tighter, more compelling wouldn't hurt. But it's nice to see it in action.
Maybe it is gaining traction. Andrew Couts writes about technology. He was one of the people I was going to direct tweet to, but did not have a chance. Someone (mrcproductivity) beat me to it and Andrew tweeted the link to the petition.
(http://motioncity.com/test2/tweet.png)
Let's hope this trend continues.
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I don't think there is really a good way to plan for something to go viral, it just happens, and one has to be in the right place at the right time..i'm not a huge twitter user, but that where I would focus my efforts and i would target users that have large numbers of followers, in the hopes they would retweet it.. I also think Matt Inman would be a good source to help us get the word out, but he might be a bit busy again..