ELI Forums > Getty Images Letter Forum
Pixsy Letter (photographer has history of suing)
DavidVGoliath:
--- Quote from: Matthew Chan on August 08, 2018, 02:12:13 PM ---Can you point me to a copyright infringement case where there was a judgment on a copyright infringement case where there was a "contempt of court charge"? It is my understanding that, at best, various collection efforts are made or perhaps seeking meaningful assets (if any) to collect unpaid judgments.
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I don't know of any copyright cases where a civil contempt of court action has been lodged as a response to non-payment of a court order; with that said, there are two caveats to my statement: firstly, I am not a lawyer and, secondly, petitioning for a charge of civil contempt would certainly be an option in these types of cases... an extreme one to be sure, but one that exists nonetheless (see https://litigation.findlaw.com/going-to-court/civil-contempt-of-court.html for some information)
Ethan Seven:
Unfairly Targeted may have enough evidence to survive a motion to dismiss if he filed a claim based on infliction of emotional distress against Tom Schwabel. Schwabel may have damaged him for life. He is clearly now not able to think rationally or coherently about copyright.
Having anger is one thing. Having lingering anger that drives one to make irrational and unfounded assertions, especially is the context of giving someone legal advice is quite another.
In my reading of this board’s older posts, particularly some of the older posts by Mr. Michelin, the mindset was the demands being made are outrageous, but if you used the image, make an appropriate offer to compensate for the use and, maybe, part of the costs incurred. That is a very rational and just mindset that balances regards for the copyright holder with awareness that some infringers are less sophisticated, or less able to pay or less culpable than others, and therefore, should not be subject to outrageous demands or pay inflated amounts. There was, and for the most part remains a nice balance of respect for people’s intellectual property rights and desire not to see people get exploited in a rigged game.
That is a massive contrast from the mindset reflected in posts by Unfairly Targeted. His posts insult any copyright holder who wants to enforce their rights. He assumes every photo has no value (despite the obvious fact that it does because someone used it). He always advocates ignoring requests for any compensation. He almost always advocates harassing or making anyone’s life miserable if they try to protect their copyright. I won’t even mention the constant gross misstatements of law.
If Tom Schwabel reads these boards and is the bastard that UT says he is, then Shwabel is probably laughing his ass off at the rants by Unfairly Targeted, knowing that he knocked him off his nut for several years.
I think DvG’s advice about letting the anger go is sage in this instance.
As far as a contempt order arising from a judgment, DvG is also correct. That is just one of many bad things that can result from a judgment. Once there is a judgment, there can be a debtors exam. Guess what you get if you don’t show up for one of those. The correct answer starts with “C” and it also comes with a special coupon for free ride in the back of a police car, called a warrant.
I am sure user “A Lawyer” can point to more examples that further illustrate the ignorance and irresponsibleness that comes with the statement “who cares?. It’s very hard to get money from someone who doesn’t want to pay anything, even with a judgment.” I pity anyone who relies on such a statement.
Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi):
What i find interesting is that Unfairly Targeteds first post regarding Schwabel, was 4 yrs ago ( as mentioned by DvG, i did not verify this on my own)...the SOL is 3 yrs...so in essence it's over and done with...
I for one have always respected the copyrights of others, and have no issue with photographers enforcing those rights, my issue is the amounts demanded, and the way in which attempt to enforce their rights.. andf this does not apply to all of the letters we have seen. We have seen some letters that request a reasonable amount and even Getty themselves have drastically lowered the settlement amounts.
Matthew Chan:
Thanks for elaborating. Your link fits perfectly my layman understanding of "contempt of court" which is generally used for being disrespectful to the judge, staff, etc. plus some additional nuances. It gives examples of failure to pay child support which is something against deadbeat parents or not turning over records in a proceeding.
However, my general layman's opinion, is that simply not paying a judgment falls outside of that. I think initiating action to take over assets such as levying someone's bank account is actually more direct and relevant than trying to hold someone in contempt of court for not paying.
You may be correct that it could hypothetically happen but so is someone getting into a fender-bender every time someone drives their car. I see the civil contempt of court as a very, very low likelihood.
--- Quote from: DavidVGoliath on August 08, 2018, 06:01:14 PM ---I don't know of any copyright cases where a civil contempt of court action has been lodged as a response to non-payment of a court order; with that said, there are two caveats to my statement: firstly, I am not a lawyer and, secondly, petitioning for a charge of civil contempt would certainly be an option in these types of cases... an extreme one to be sure, but one that exists nonetheless (see https://litigation.findlaw.com/going-to-court/civil-contempt-of-court.html for some information)
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Matthew Chan:
As always, you provide a well-written thoughtful response. My comments inline about UT (Unfairly Targeted).
--- Quote from: Ethan Seven on August 08, 2018, 08:09:02 PM ---Having anger is one thing. Having lingering anger that drives one to make irrational and unfounded assertions, especially is the context of giving someone legal advice is quite another.
I don't think there is a widespread danger that people believe UT is a lawyer, paralegal, or other recognized authority on the subject. He is an angry victim stating his personal opinion. I hardly consider it "legal advice" in the traditional sense. However disagreeable it might be, he is entitled to his opinion.
That is a massive contrast from the mindset reflected in posts by Unfairly Targeted. His posts insult any copyright holder who wants to enforce their rights. He assumes every photo has no value (despite the obvious fact that it does because someone used it). He always advocates ignoring requests for any compensation. He almost always advocates harassing or making anyone’s life miserable if they try to protect their copyright. I won’t even mention the constant gross misstatements of law.
UT espouses a more extreme point of view. However, I do sympathize with some broader points he tries to bluntly make. That is NOT an endorsement of a literal interpretation of what he writes but I think I "get" him. I take a lot of UT's responses as hyperbolic rhetoric than a literal interpretation. I also feel some of his "factual" statements are likely incorrect (such as those related to how many Schwabel Google entries there truly are. I interpret his rhetoric to means there are a LOT of them in Google.
As far as a contempt order arising from a judgment, DvG is also correct. That is just one of many bad things that can result from a judgment. Once there is a judgment, there can be a debtors exam. Guess what you get if you don’t show up for one of those. The correct answer starts with “C” and it also comes with a special coupon for free ride in the back of a police car, called a warrant.
I give benefit of the doubt that this possibility exists. And maybe one day, we will see a copyright infringement case in which that happens where someone elects to plead/file "contempt of court" because of an unpaid judgment. However, I still think it is likely analogous to finding albinos in wildlife. They exist but very rarely. We have just never heard of seen such a thing in the 10 years we been dealing with small-time cases (as compared to major media copyright infringement cases).
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