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Author Topic: Question for Greg Troy  (Read 2897 times)

JLorimer

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Question for Greg Troy
« on: January 11, 2014, 09:23:52 PM »
Greg, I just finished reading all of your back and forth with Getty, all your complaint letters, and your 17 page forum thread about your experiment.  First of all, thank you for being so open and sharing all of that.  Now to my question.  Most people here say to offer as little information as possible.  It seems to me that in your initial letter to Getty, you offered a lot of information, including some background information on how you came to use the image that alerted them to you.  In retrospect, do you feel that you gave up too much?  Would you change that initial response after all the time you have spent here at ELI?

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Question for Greg Troy
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2014, 11:51:42 AM »
Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated. 

You are also welcome for "being open" too. I did that for a couple of reasons. The first of which was to show Getty that I am not the typical extortion demand letter recipient and I chose to reveal my real identity here on the forum and bring my fight out in the open. I see benefits in doing it this way, a corporate bully may be a little more conservative in their approach to you if they know everything they say and do is going to be placed on the World Wide Web for everyone to see, the other reason was to show everyone else that you can fight back against an unethical $4.5 billion company whose business model is legalized extortion by being open, upfront and honest.

As far as the wording of my first letter goes, yes I probably would have worded it differently. While not a lawyer I do understand and respect copyright law and I do understand infringement is a statutory offense. I do believe that artists should be paid for their work as well. While I felt that Getty's approach to the matter was reprehensible and unethical, designed to instill fear and panic people into paying many times more than an image is worth out of fear of an eminent lawsuit I did in good faith try to negotiate with them. I still would have shown where the image was being claimed by Getty and another party, I still would have requested proof of Getty's claim prior to negotiation and if Getty would have simply provided me the proof requested (which I offered to sign a confidentiality agreement if needed to receive the proof requested) we could have settled the matter amicably. Getty's response to me trying to negotiate with them was to ignore my requests and threatened me with their legal department in legal action.

So to answer your question more directly I think I would have worded it differently but the content would have still been pretty much the same. Just like the complaint letters I currently have and keep updated should I ever hear from Getty, NCS, Mr. Timothy McCormack or anyone associated with Getty look different from the letters you read that I had already sent out in the past.  You evolve with age and knowledge and so do my letters.

If you choose to confront Getty make sure you mean what you say. If you tell them you will file a complaint(s) if they do not provide you proof or whatever you request make sure you follow through and do it. If you do not they will not believe you mean what you say and will keep pestering you until you either pay or your 3 years runs out. I told Getty exactly what I would do and I did it. After I receiving their "escalation" letter I made good my promise and file the complaints you read, while Getty did have to answer these complaints to date I have never been contacted by them again. I only have a little over a year to go before my SOL expires.

I hope this answers your question and helped you out and don't hesitate to ask if you have other questions.

Greg, I just finished reading all of your back and forth with Getty, all your complaint letters, and your 17 page forum thread about your experiment.  First of all, thank you for being so open and sharing all of that.  Now to my question.  Most people here say to offer as little information as possible.  It seems to me that in your initial letter to Getty, you offered a lot of information, including some background information on how you came to use the image that alerted them to you.  In retrospect, do you feel that you gave up too much?  Would you change that initial response after all the time you have spent here at ELI?
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

JLorimer

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Re: Question for Greg Troy
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2014, 01:14:30 PM »
Thanks. That's very helpful to know.  Of all the solutions I have read here, I think I liked the way you handled it most.  I too believe in upholding the law and artists rights.  Also like you, I believe the negotiation should be fair, rather than an attempt to extort many times the actual value of an image.  I felt that you made a very honest attempt to settle with them at a fair price.

I do plan to fight back against BWP.  I have been laying out my own step-by-step strategy in dealing with them.  I know they are not Getty but many of the similarities lead me to believe that my responses to them can be tailored around successful past interactions with Getty.

At this stage, I have not planned to "out" myself just yet.  However, I believe that people do need to stand up to these practices.  I also plan to document and share at least portions of my experience for others to learn from.  I very much appreciated that you began a campaign of filing complaint letters to various authorities.  I have not yet experienced how or if BWP negotiates.  If it goes anything like Getty or other companies, I too will be threatening to, as well as following through with, send letters to the same authorities.  I plan to structure these letters very closely to the examples you and others have posted.  Any suggestions about specific wording changes you would make or things you have learned would be appreciated. 

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Question for Greg Troy
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2014, 04:17:01 PM »
You do not need to worry about outing yourself, that decision could be risky and should be made after carefully reviewing your situation. I did it in my case for the reasons previously mentioned above.

Like you, I planned out all my actions step-by-step. I tried to outline all possible contingencies and plan out how I would respond to each up to and including the extremely unlikely event that I would be sued by Getty. For the last I had retained a local copyright attorney and let him know I was going to be handling this myself up to the point Getty sued me, I did keep him abreast of the situation in my actions and did use him once to try to offer signing a confidentiality agreement to get the information I had requested to continue negotiations.

Having everything planed out and ready to go takes 99% of the stress out of this unfortunate situation. When you know all you have to do after receiving a letter is to print out and send in the appropriate response. Quite often I was literally done within 10 minutes of receiving a letter from Getty. I think I did make them wait once or twice passed their artificial scare tactic deadline they imposed and let them know I refuse to be bound by or adhere to it,  I would take the time necessary to research and craft an appropriate response (I neglected to mention that all responses were already made and in the can waiting to be printed).

Once the stress is removed from the situation you can actually have some fun with it. I greatly enjoyed crafting the letter that was letting Getty no I was done with them since they refused to negotiate and their next correspondence to me without the proof I requested would result in the initialization of my complaint campaign. I included a rough draft of the complaint letter I intended to send out as well as a letter to forward to NCS Solutions shutting them down before they could even start.

I would also recommend knowing where you're going to be sending your letters to ahead of time. I go in an update my letters with new information and cases as needed and also check to make sure the addresses and where valid the person in office the letters addressed to is still there.

If you are receiving the letters from a lawyer you may wish to consider filing complaints against the lawyer and/or law firm. However, do not do this unless you truly feel what they are doing is wrong as a complaint to a Bar Association can affect that person's career and possibly the ability for them to practice law. Having said that if you do feel what they are doing is morally and ethically wrong then you can absolutely file complaints with the bar association(s) they belong to.



Thanks. That's very helpful to know.  Of all the solutions I have read here, I think I liked the way you handled it most.  I too believe in upholding the law and artists rights.  Also like you, I believe the negotiation should be fair, rather than an attempt to extort many times the actual value of an image.  I felt that you made a very honest attempt to settle with them at a fair price.

I do plan to fight back against BWP.  I have been laying out my own step-by-step strategy in dealing with them.  I know they are not Getty but many of the similarities lead me to believe that my responses to them can be tailored around successful past interactions with Getty.

At this stage, I have not planned to "out" myself just yet.  However, I believe that people do need to stand up to these practices.  I also plan to document and share at least portions of my experience for others to learn from.  I very much appreciated that you began a campaign of filing complaint letters to various authorities.  I have not yet experienced how or if BWP negotiates.  If it goes anything like Getty or other companies, I too will be threatening to, as well as following through with, send letters to the same authorities.  I plan to structure these letters very closely to the examples you and others have posted.  Any suggestions about specific wording changes you would make or things you have learned would be appreciated.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

 

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