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Author Topic: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.  (Read 17405 times)

Matthew Chan

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I have stated many times that ELI isn't a charity service anymore. ELI has to be a self-sustaining business interest for Oscar and I.  We don't have to get rich but ELI cannot be a deficit. Oscar, BuddhaPi, and I have a current understanding of how the current ELI model works and stays in existence. I still put in an inordinate amount of time compared to what is paid into ELI.

Having said that, Glen Carner is hanging out with us picking our brains doing the PR thing on the ELI Forums getting all kinds of visibility and huge value.  Not to mention, his letter victims come here for help only to see Glen Carner chatting it up with the ELI Defense Team and the ELI Community.  It is a weird picture to envision.

Thus far, it has been somewhat entertaining for us to read his posts. However, we were curious as to what he had to say so we let him run with it.  However, I am sure it is a little bit more serious for him because of the thorn ELI has been to him. I can promise you that as entertaining as he has been, his ELI involvement is very self-serving. He gains far more benefit than ELI does.

It occurs to me he is burning up my time and jumping into our community and getting all kinds of "free" benefits.  For the normal letter recipient, I don't have a problem chiming away but I don't care for the idea of Glen coming here using tapping into the ELI Community Mindshare and the ELI Marketing machine for his personal and business benefit.

Given that, I am going to pose the question to Glen to see how much of a monthly ELI Contribution he will make to hang out here. If the answer is too low, Glen's time on the ELI Forums comes to a very sudden end. I may even delete his existing messages. I normally would not delete other people's messages but his case is very different.

At this time, Glen "owes" ELI nothing but his time of hanging with us on the ELI dime is over. Glen has been here nearly daily so I know he will see this message.  If he "conveniently" ignores this message, his ELI account will be terminated.

If Glen agrees to make a "reasonable" monthly ELI Contribution to support ELI as other contributors have done, he can hang with us on a very conditional basis. I will be ruthless in the collections and watching his activities. I will have no hesitation to kill his account and all his PR posts.  He will still have to follow the rules. We will always have the right to end his involvement at any time.

Some of the ELI Community members may object to this but Oscar and I have been very open of how we started, grew, evolve, and why we are still around. And given that I consider ELI a valuable resource, for someone like Glen to have free reign to hang out here on ELI for free with the very people he/HAN has extorted from without him paying any price rubs me the wrong way and it will stop.

I have conferred with BuddhaPi and Oscar on my decision and intent and they understand my position on the matter.

If Glen pays a reasonable monthly amount to ELI, he stays. If not, his time is over. No more free rides for Glen when we have other extortion letter recipients having to pay for ELI resources.  It is simply twisted to make letter recipients pay to help support ELI and Glen Carner and his ilk get a free ride.

It isn't going to happen any longer on my watch.  Glen, it is time to pay up to ELI as your victims have had to do or you need to say your goodbyes today.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 02:02:28 PM by Matthew Chan »
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

SoylentGreen

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2012, 02:05:35 PM »
I sincerely hope that he takes Lucia with him.

S.G.

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2012, 02:09:16 PM »
How many thousands was Carner trying to extract from EVNL?

I think that would be a perfect number for his contribution to staying on ELI.

If he doesn't want to pay to play, show him the door. That's my two bits worth.

Jerry Witt (mcfilms)

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2012, 02:17:50 PM »
Matthew,

The only thing I feel more passionately about than extortion is free speech. I've always said, your forum, your rules. But if you decide anyone is required to pay money to participate on these forums, I will have to resign as a ELI team member. I was the one that initially emailed and asked Glen to join these forums. We were all quite surprised when he showed up. Now, suddenly he is a huge burden? Frankly I don't get it, but I suspect my goals and those of this forum have somehow diverged.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 02:44:46 PM by mcfilms »
Although I may be a super-genius, I am not a lawyer. So take my scribblings for what they are worth and get a real lawyer for real legal advice. But if you want media and design advice, please visit Motion City at http://motioncity.com.

aimiyo

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2012, 02:39:10 PM »
My vote goes with McFilms to some degree, sorry Matt. I understand in some ways Glen is like a spammer (advertiser) but if not too excessive seems ok. Also people here have asked him these questions. Well its your forum and he has the gold rules.
I stand up for what is right even if I stand alone.

Matthew Chan

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2012, 02:43:11 PM »
Be nice, SG. Lucia is a "regular" contributor. We don't all have to agree 100% of the time.

I sincerely hope that he takes Lucia with him.

I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Peeved

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2012, 03:03:16 PM »
Matt, I agree with your statements that.....

"Glen Carner is hanging out with us picking our brains doing the PR thing on the ELI Forums getting all kinds of visibility and huge value.  Not to mention, his letter victims come here for help only to see Glen Carner chatting it up with the ELI Defense Team and the ELI Community.  It is a weird picture to envision."

However, please keep in mind that any "burning up of time" is a "choice" on any member's part.  :) Also, any "free benefits" that Mr. Carner may obtain is dependent upon a "willingness to respond".  :)

My personal opinion is that I feel a person should have the right to free speech however, I do respect that this IS YOUR forum and business and therefore it is obviously your choice to make.
 8)


Extortion-Victim-No Longer

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2012, 03:06:32 PM »
Matthew,

The only thing I feel more passionately about than extortion is free speech. I've always said, your forum, your rules. But if you decide anyone is required to pay money to participate on these forums, I will have to resign as a ELI team member. I was the one that initially emailed and asked Glen to join these forums. We were all quite surprised when he showed up. Now, suddenly he is a huge burden? Frankly I don't get it, but I suspect my goals and those of this forum have somehow diverged.

It would be a shame to lose you or any of our regular team members over a disagreement....agree to disagree ...
Kim

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2012, 03:07:56 PM »
I'll take a risk at being thrown under the bus for a change of pace..

I will continue to support ELI in any way I can, regardless of what comes of this. And I fully support Oscars' and Matthews' position, but dammit MC did you have to throw the FREE SPEECH thing in there?? This is exactly why I think we have a good community, we all see things from a different perspective.

I'm not completely sold on the idea that Glen is here for his stated and intended purpose, I'm trying to, but all I am seeing AT THIS POINT is a PR multi-pronged campaign, as well as a bunch of questions that have gone unanswered.

Do I really care if he answers?, not really that's on him, and I also really don't care if he stays or if he goes. If he is intent on making changes he will do this on his own with or without our help or hindrance.

so with all that being said perhaps we need to rethink this option.. I hate to back-pedal, but I do need to try to be fair to all involved......
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

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Robert Krausankas

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Khan

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2012, 03:15:35 PM »
I have got  a suggestion :

Glen should stay under one condition: As long as he is discussing with us here he has to stop his demand letters for this period of time. If he decides to stick to his program he should leave and stay away.

Extortion-Victim-No Longer

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2012, 03:15:48 PM »
Matthew..."It is a weird picture to envision." Never thought we'd see the day
Kim

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2012, 03:22:49 PM »
While I like this suggestion, we would have no way of really knowing and quite frankly I'm not so sure I trust him at this point..I would have less of a problem with him being here if he wasn't always trying to spin things to take advantage of the PR that the ELI machine brings...both good and bad

I have got  a suggestion :

Glen should stay under one condition: As long as he is discussing with us here he has to stop his demand letters for this period of time. If he decides to stick to his program he should leave and stay away.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

stinger

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2012, 03:24:13 PM »
I side with the free speech folks on this issue.  Not because I like Glen Carner or any of his answers, and I despise his non-answers.  It's because I believe that free speech is one of the things that is right with this country.  And it's not really free if it is only for my friends and those who agree with me.

In this particular case, however, I am not going to resiqn from ELI if Glen is booted out.  But that is because I don't believe that Glen Carner is sincere about why he is here.  And although I don't agree with everything about this forum (or almost anything else for that matter), I think ELI does a lot more good than harm.

So, with or without you Glen, I am still here - as long as I see the good outweigh the rest.

Glen Carner

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2012, 03:24:56 PM »
I'm not really sure what to say here.  I will continue to communicate with McFilms if he has questions or comments like we have in the past.  I appreciate the time you have given me and even though it has been brutal, I knew what to expect when I came here.  In general, all of you were courteous and tolerant of hearing the "other sides" views.  I am glad to see some of the questions and concerns about my company's spoken to, and regret not clarifying those points earlier.

Please consider this one thing if I am not able to post here any more. 

The "ELI Attorney Warning System."  What that would be is when you see a "new" attorney whose letter appears extreme or is working for a stock photo agency, that you contact them (or me who would be happy to follow up them) and have a "ELI" (Extreme Lawyer Intervention) to warn them about what they are doing and how if you see another letter from them in the future that it will be posted on Scribe and ELI.  It seems harsh to potentially damage the career of an new attorney (for life on Google) because they sent out a letter you feel is inappropriate.   Wouldn't a "one strike" rule be appropriate for them?  They should at least have the choice of continuing to work for the agency and pay ELI's consequences, or to stop doing this work knowing that ELI will be watching and taking action if they continue.

Thank you.
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Khan

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Re: What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2012, 03:31:07 PM »
Ok Glen. Why is it that you do not send first a " Cease" letter too ????

 

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