Click Official ELI Links
Get Help With Your Extortion Letter | ELI Phone Support | ELI Legal Representation Program
Show your support of the ELI website & ELI Forums through a PayPal Contribution. Thank you for supporting the ongoing fight and reporting of Extortion Settlement Demand Letters.

Author Topic: Free Baitpapers  (Read 46245 times)

Jerry Witt (mcfilms)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
    • Motion City
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2011, 01:32:31 PM »
Based on this information, my opinion is, if you pay HAN anything you are a sucker.

I understand that they have filed suit in a couple of cases. I guess they feel no one in the lower 48 is going to fly to Hawaii to appear and they will win default judgments. But if it were me, I'd take it to the mat and fight. It seems very likely that HAN would end up paying for my trip to Hawaii.
Although I may be a super-genius, I am not a lawyer. So take my scribblings for what they are worth and get a real lawyer for real legal advice. But if you want media and design advice, please visit Motion City at http://motioncity.com.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

  • ELI Defense Team Member
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3354
    • View Profile
    • ExtortionLetterInfo
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2011, 01:50:33 PM »
Sorry to bust your bubble, but as I understand it, they would need to file suit where the defendant is located, in the 3 cases I have seen they are all located in the islands and the attorney is also from there as well.. I also notice that this attorney has a good amount of experience behind him, not the usual un-experienced , fresh out of school type.., which has me thinking maybe they use these other lawyers cause they're cheap, hoping to rattle people into just paying and saving on overhead.. there is one letter (not public) that someone from HAN actually sent, they didn't even bother having an attorney send it, perhaps they could find one in that state??
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

Jerry Witt (mcfilms)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
    • Motion City
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2011, 02:17:05 PM »
Man, I was so ready for that Hawaiian vacation I was already thinking about posting one of these baitpapers on my site.

Okay, no free trip to Hawaii, but I stand by the rest of my statement. I honestly believe that an individual without an attorney could successfully argue and win this case. Seriously. (And yes I know the adage about "A person who represents himself in court has a fool for a client."

Although I may be a super-genius, I am not a lawyer. So take my scribblings for what they are worth and get a real lawyer for real legal advice. But if you want media and design advice, please visit Motion City at http://motioncity.com.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

  • ELI Defense Team Member
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3354
    • View Profile
    • ExtortionLetterInfo
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2011, 02:24:02 PM »
I'm with you on this, when you put it all together, Hawaiian Art Network, Artist, Copyright Services International ( or whatever it's called, which just happened to be owned by the same owner as HAN itself), free wall paper sites by the dozen, several sites "selling" the same images, asking for 1000.00 or more for said images, when the photogrpaher himself sells the images for as low as $10.00 INCLUDING shipping!!, I really think they could be in a heap of trouble..
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

Matthew Chan

  • ELI Founder, "Admin-on-Hiatus"
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2763
  • 1st Amendment & Section 230 CDA Advocate
    • View Profile
    • Defiantly
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2011, 10:10:26 PM »
Righthaven has shown us how judges have a disdain for using abusing the court system and legal process especially when there appears to be a pattern of behavior the law never intended.

Vincent Tylor's wallpapers and HAN's "partnership" involvement perpetuates this abuse.  I am entirely convinced given enough research and assemblage of information being gathered, if a court case were to be presented to a judge, they would show that they are engaged in legalized entrapment.

These free wallpaper images are being pushed out throughout the Internet does not to promote Vincent's work but seems intended for someone to trip up and use that wallpaper as a website image so that an extortion letter can be sent out.

As far as I am concerned, Vincent Tylor's images and HAN's subsequent letter comes up way too frequently for all of this to be a coincidence.

They would do well to pay attention to Righthaven's ongoing verbal spankings by judges.  If Vincent Tylor and HAN don't change their ways, they are going to become a victim of their own "success". Karma has a way of catching up to those who intentionally victimize the ignorance of others.

All this is going to be a subject of an upcoming ELI video update discussion.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 11:24:11 PM by Matthew Chan »
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Jerry Witt (mcfilms)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
    • Motion City
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2011, 10:40:25 PM »
Great! I hope this video touches on some of the things the victims might do. When can they start billing HAN for attorney costs? What steps do they need to take to ensure that they are in the best position to recoup any expenses from HAN? Any thoughts or information why this one photographer's image is at the center of so many letters?

Thanks! I'll be sure to tune in.
Although I may be a super-genius, I am not a lawyer. So take my scribblings for what they are worth and get a real lawyer for real legal advice. But if you want media and design advice, please visit Motion City at http://motioncity.com.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

  • ELI Defense Team Member
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3354
    • View Profile
    • ExtortionLetterInfo
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2011, 08:17:40 AM »
Any thoughts or information why this one photographer's image is at the center of so many letters?


I have thoughts! If you look at Hawaiin Art Networks site, you'll notice V.K. Tylor is the only photographer offering his images for sale for as little as 10.00, whilst other offer their images starting at around 45.00 and up... Plainly these other photographers have some morals and like to make their money in a more honest fashion.. Vincent K. Tylor on the other hand, knows he can make much more by sending out demand letters, hoping recipients cave into the extortion type threats.

I can't help but wonder if the other artist under HAN umbrella are aware of this?? Perhaps I need to draft an open letter to said artists...
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

Extortion-Victim-No Longer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Fighting Extortion
    • View Profile
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2012, 05:37:22 PM »
Kim

Matthew Chan

  • ELI Founder, "Admin-on-Hiatus"
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2763
  • 1st Amendment & Section 230 CDA Advocate
    • View Profile
    • Defiantly
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2012, 06:14:07 PM »
I think people are having way too much fun with the new Google video creator tool.  Very nice.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Extortion-Victim-No Longer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Fighting Extortion
    • View Profile
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2012, 08:17:17 PM »
It is....had to do one last one... ::)

Kim

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

  • ELI Defense Team Member
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3354
    • View Profile
    • ExtortionLetterInfo
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2012, 08:37:57 PM »
Pretty amazing that when you go to youtube and search  Hawaiian Art Network that ELI takes the numero Uno spot ABOVE Han's own video!!

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hawaiian+art+network
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

Matthew Chan

  • ELI Founder, "Admin-on-Hiatus"
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2763
  • 1st Amendment & Section 230 CDA Advocate
    • View Profile
    • Defiantly
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2012, 12:07:48 AM »
EVNL,

That was a nice touch using Google search on the VK Tylor images.  I had not done that yet. Very creative and illustrative.

I am beginning to think that the Google video tool is going to get more popular here on ELI. To be honest, I am enjoying the creativity being displayed.  We might have to have a contest on the best video.  Or maybe dedicate a display wall of the best ELI-related videos.  :-)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 12:09:35 AM by Matthew Chan »
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Bekka

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2012, 12:15:00 AM »
Oh and don't forget to register your new creations, so when these lawyers, etc. copy it to show others and complain about them, you can send them a demand letter too....LOL!  I's say $10,000 should be a good starting price!


lucia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 767
    • View Profile
Re: Free Baitpapers
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2012, 12:49:36 PM »
I was a bit curious about this theory of the artist "seeding" photos.  It seems a little implausible that the artist would be seeding overtly. That is: I would be surprised if a photographer is visiting a wallpaper site and uploading his images himself.

Being familiar with the web, I think it's worth looking into ways that a photographer might inadvertently be contributing to the problem.  I googled around a bit and found some possible paths (and other info.) So here goes:

Possible way path for Photographers wallpapers to appear at zillions of wall paper sites.

1) http://www.hawaiianphotos.net/SiteMap.htm appears to be VK Tylor's site.
2) Hawaiian photos' site map  links to webshots page with VKTylor images.
   Web cite capture of site  map on Jan 10, 2012 http://www.webcitation.org/64ai2bj4N

3) Road to Hana Turquoise Lagoon appears at Webshots
   http://www.webcitation.org/64aiKdzpz    (thumbnail)
   http://www.webcitation.org/64aiTIGO6 (Large-- but webcite may be blocked from seeing whole page.  At least today, you can see the page I tried to archive:  http://www.webshots.com/pro/photo/3158973?navtype=search  Webshots appears to display the "hover" image but that's blanked out for webcite. Click the pretty lagoon picture to see similarity between Webshots page and archived page.)

4) Even on the partial archive, you can see that webshots makes wallpapers downloadable.  The price is fairly low-- one gets a monthly membership.

https://subs.webshots.com/reg/comparison?res=high&photos=3158973&done=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webshots.com%2Fpro%2Fphoto%2F3158973%26path%3D%2Ftravel-north-america-united-states-hawaii-maui&path=%2Ftravel-north-america-united-states-hawaii-maui%3Fexp%3Dphoto_page&vhost=www&collection=Travel+-+Mauihttps://subs.webshots.com/reg/comparison?res=high&photos=3158973&done=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webshots.com%2Fpro%2Fphoto%2F3158973%26path%3D%2Ftravel-north-america-united-states-hawaii-maui&path=%2Ftravel-north-america-united-states-hawaii-maui%3Fexp%3Dphoto_page&vhost=www&collection=Travel+-+Maui
http://www.webcitation.org/64alEDRWa

Note: Platinum membership-- the top of the line is $39.99 a year, which is low enough that anyone profiting from a free wallpaper site would pay it.  You can also get a free 1 day membership. Possibly those running free wallpaper sites would figure out a way to join using disposable email addresses but I wasn't going to try test that out.

5) Webshots copyright  is archived here:
   http://www.webcitation.org/64aiwTYIg
It grants limited rights-- certainly  if those running the free wallpaper sites have not been granted licenses through Webshots. 
==== Digression.
Up to this point in my investigation, my tentative notion is that it's possible for someone running a free wallpaper site to obtain images very cheaply from Webshots.  (Or failing that, some anonymous person might obtain the images  and uploads to a free wallpaper site. Each wallpaper site operates differently and some may pay uploaders a few pennies for each download thereby encouraging uploaders to do the grunt work of creating content.)

If it's done this way, then the photographer might not be intentionally "seeding" his image.

However, the images copying is  rampant, and by now, one would imagine any photographer who has been suing numerous people must know that the images are all over the web.  He may not know how his wallpaper images are getting to these wallpaper sites. But it appears to me that what I've describe represents at least one path for many of his images to appear at free wallpaper sites.  I also think it's relatively obvious: Wallpaper sites are getting his images from the Webshots, which sells the image cheap!

=====   Since HAN is involved, I think it's worth closing the circle and showing these:

6) HAN displays similar image.  As far as I can tell, they make these available as print only.
   http://www.hawaiiart.com/products/Turquoise-Lagoon-Photograph.html
   http://www.webcitation.org/64akVcPDi

7) HAN's Copyright terms for buyers are seem largely similar to Webshots
   http://www.webcitation.org/64akOZTGZ
Those who buy images from HAN don't have a right to display on the web, resell & etc. But-- as I noted-- at least looking at the images I linked above, I only saw prints for sale.  (Moreover, as a potential customer, I'd assume HAN's restrictions don't prevent someone who bought the image at Webshots from using it the way Webshots license allows.)

However, I don't have access to the terms for Artists. So, I don't have anything that indicates whether HAN has exclusive rights for distribution on the web. 

8) Looking around HAN, I have not found any method for someone to download wallpapers. So, I think the path to free wallpaper sites is likely not HAN.  (And they may not be aware that some of the images they sell are also sold as wallpapers with the authorization of the photographer through Webshots.)

Anyway: For the time being, my operating theory are

  • The photographer Tylor loads them to Webshots in the hopes of making a little money. (Perfectly justifyable.)
  • Webshots makes these available at a price that is somewhat reasonable for digital wallpaper. (In fact, that price may only be attractive to people who steal it and resell, making money by selling advertising or collecting email addresses to resell to spammers.)
  • Quite a few Wallpaper places (group A) get the images from Webshots representing them as free.
  • Then "party B" looking to create a site  downloads from the free wallpaper site an use the image.  Then HAN and Tylor sue Party B. 

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know how a judge would react to demands for large settlements from the photographer or his agent in the hypothetical circumstance where  one or the other knows the photographer makes images available through Webshots, knows Webshots makes high resolutions images easily available and likely knows or ought to know third parties  (group A) are representing these images as free and the ones being asked for large damages (i.e. party B) are the coming across these images hosted by someone in  "group A". 

But I think the fact that this path exists is something an attorney might want to know about so he could decide whether it's important to his fact pattern.

Also: If I were HAN, and my business model was to sell photographs,  I would insist my artists not make their images available as wallpaper through Webshots. Even though HAN is suing for web display, it's pretty obvious that anyone who wants a nice, high resolution print image of "Road to Hana"  can just download it from Webshots or a wallpaper site, print them on nice paper, display them at home and never get caught. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 05:05:26 PM by Matthew Chan »

 

Official ELI Help Options
Get Help With Your Extortion Letter | ELI Phone Support Call | ELI Defense Letter Program
Show your support of the ELI website & ELI Forums through a PayPal Contribution. Thank you for supporting the ongoing fight and reporting of Extortion Settlement Demand Letters.