Retired Forums > Hawaiian Letters & Lawsuits Forum
Recording Copyright Extortion Collection Telephone Calls
Matthew Chan:
This is one of these ideas that I have held on to simply because I wasn't prepared to take a public position on. I am now.
Apparently, I hear some nasty copyright extortion collection telephone calls have been made to letter recipients. Most notably, the nastiest complaints I heard of comes from a clerk or paralegal allegedly from Attorney Timothy B. McCormack's office. I cannot say whether Tim knows or even approves about how his paralegals are making these collection phone calls but I can promise you that he ultimately gets the responsibility for this one.
Glen Carner, CEO of Hawaiian Art Network, has come on to the ELI Forums trying to justify and defend his new Copyright Services International venture where he has one of his clerks make "copyright collections phone calls" to people "out of the blue" trying to inform and extract payment over the phone.
As far as the ELI Community is concerned, none of us feel that phone conversations serve any good purpose (at this time). It is grossly stacked against the person receiving the phone call especially if they know nothing about the copyright collection process. I don't like emails either and highly discourage it. I believe in old-fashioned typed letter with a first-class postage stamp sent through U.S. Postal Mail.
There is a move by the stock photo agencies and their collection lawyers to minimize their footprint when it comes to their extortion letters and other communication means. Let's face it. When it is shown to he public, it is very embarrassing to them. And in some cases, it has earned them complaints with the State Bar and the Attorney General. The extortion letters have become shorter and more sanitized. But don't fool yourself, they are still coming after your money. They are trying to move towards email vs. standard U.S. Postal mail. Now, we have copyright collection telephone calls.
I believe people should be prepared for telephone calls and record those calls to protect yourself. Some people might say that recording phone calls is "illegal". Well, I say cold-calling people and trying to get people to pay big money with ZERO PROOF over the phone isn't all that warm and fuzzy either. It smells of a scam. There is no judge that will ever reprimand you for NOT paying someone hundreds, if not thousands of dollars over a blind telephone call no matter how sweet-sounding the caller is.
Regarding the legality of recording "phone calls", I have no problems recording calls if I need to regardless of what the law books say because it will be for my own use. I know that the law on recording phone conversations vary from state to state but it doesn't bother me because I have a good idea what I will use it for and what I can't. Unless you plan on using it egregiously to be malicious or profit from it, very few prosecutors are going to devote their time on this supposed "crime".
It is analogous to the fact that speeding is technically illegal. But nearly no one goes to jail or gets a speeding ticket for going 5 mph over the speed limit. Very few people worry about it. Or a U-turn where you are not supposed to. Or talking on the cell phone while driving. So many vehicle-related laws that people break all the time.
Or how about the "blue laws" relating to sex for certain sexual acts? Is anyone really going to bust down your door and arrest you for engaging in a particular activity between two consenting adults? Countless people are "breaking blue laws" daily! Lots of weird laws on the books but not really that big a deal by most "normal" people. It would cause an outrage trying to enforce them.
So, my own OPINION, is that I am not going to obsess over the laws regarding recording phone calls especially against those trying to get money from me. This isn't a debt collection call they are making. This is an unproven, copyright claim call! Most people never give me a reason to need to consider recording a phone call without their permission. But if I feel the need to record a phone call to protect myself or my interests, I will and I won't feel bad about it at all. I will take that risk. I won't let people get away with saying crazy things to me if I can capture and record it and then use it against them.
It is obviously YOUR choice whether you are willing to take that risk to record a phone call without someone's authorization.
But I think we need to start considering recording the copyright collections phone calls and letting others hear and analyze these calls.
Just to prove a point, I recently received a threatening phone call from a ex-friend who became a meth-user and now angry with me. A message was left on my voicemail. I took that recorded voicemail and saved it to report to the police. And this real-life recoding is available for you to listen to. I mean what I say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9HPjH8cXwU
ELI is happy to receive recorded phone call submissions. We are happy to anonymize your portion and any other identifying information but we will preserve the identity of the copyright collection caller.
Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi):
Pass the lighter! 8)
I'll be researching this for sure, but right off the bat, if you're number is on the do not call list, the collection caller could be reported, as this would be an unsolicited call, and being that the "callee" does not do business with the offending company, that makes it that much better..There are penalties to companies whomdo not follow the rules.. Like I said I'll be researching this and supplying links in the next day or so..
It's what I get "paid" for afterall
Jerry Witt (mcfilms):
--- Quote from: Matthew Chan on June 02, 2012, 09:32:47 PM ---Regarding the legality of recording "phone calls", I have no problems recording calls if I need to regardless of what the law books say because it will be for my own use. I know that the law on recording phone conversations vary from state to state but it doesn't bother me because I have a good idea what I will use it for and what I can't. Unless you plan on using it egregiously to be malicious or profit from it, very few prosecutors are going to devote their time on this supposed "crime".
--- End quote ---
My standard "I'm not a lawyer" disclaimer applies. But my understanding is that you can record a phone conversation as long as you notify the other party you will be recording it.
If you think someone is trying to run a scam on you, you have every right to say, "Gee, this sounds rather complicated, I will be recording this conversation. You understand." And that's it.
If it is a legitimate claim they will continue. If it is a scam, watch how quickly the other party gets off the line.
SoylentGreen:
I did some reading the other day.
My understanding that the only kind of recording in the US that's "illegal" (without government permission) is when neither party is aware that they're being recorded.
But, the laws of submission state whether or not such calls can be used as court evidence.
It's allowed in most states so long as one person is aware that the conversation is being recorded.
A small number of states only allow recorded evidence if both parties are aware that a recording is being made.
Also, "If a caller in a one-party state records a conversation with someone in a two-party state that caller is subject to the stricter of the laws and must have consent from all callers"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws
S.G.
Matthew Chan:
Guys, you are killing me. I think you are missing my point and making this too complicated. I am surprised given some of you should know my personality by now. You are adding layers to my statement when I didn't intend any. I already did the necessary reading before I made this statement. I already know everything you guys are saying and I am going to disregard it. I am making the decision for MYSELF. Everyone else can take my direct statement and add layers.
I am telling you that if someone tries to call me when I don't want them to, I have ZERO intentions of notifying them no matter which of the 50 states I am in. If I am gunning after someone, I am NOT notifying them. I will do it discreetly to nail them. I am going to get them, straight and simple. I am hitting that record button without their knowing or permission. It's that simple and direct.
I am not using it as court evidence and all that other stuff. I am going directly to the public with it. I don't want them to know I am recording because I intend to capture them "in the raw", not a condensed or toned-down version of the conversation. But that is just me.
My caveat is that I almost never record phone calls. I have no history of "breaking this law". Almost never need to. But if I need to "break this law", then so be it. I am not going to worry about this "blue law" (my opinion) on recording phone calls as a private individual gathering evidence against a more powerful bully or extortionist.
Once again, I believe the intent of the law is for major and flagrant abuse of recording phone conversations.
This may be one of those times where I may stand entirely alone on this matter. Other people can go ahead and implement your suggestions if they are that fearful of the "risk". I am not going to be held back by some remote, obscure chance that some prosecutor might use valuable tax dollars to go after a private individual for committing this egregious crime of recording a phone call without someone's permission. I will take my chances with that "risk".
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