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Author Topic: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible  (Read 4316 times)

Matthew Chan

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Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« on: February 22, 2013, 03:21:39 AM »
It is once again late at night so my mind is a little blurry.  I need some help on a train of thought.

To prove stalking, generally someone has to make an effort to "contact" someone.  That could be personal visit, phone call, following, email, snail-mail, fax, or posting on someone else's social media page.  However, I have done NONE of these things to "contact" Linda.

I'm going to explain to the court that Linda (or someone in her team) has to periodically and deliberately come into this forum, within the ELI Forums within the ELI website, to read any messages I post.

By my analysis,

* Manual access to any new website generally means typing in the URL consisting of many keystrokes and hitting enter. (http://extortionletterinfo.com)

* Accessing the Linda Ellis Forums within the ELI Forums from ELI's home page minimally requires 2 mouse clicks.

* Once inside, each topic requires at least another mouse click to get to one topic and an additional back-click and forward click to view another topic. That doesn't count any scrolling up and down that has to be done for long topics.

No one can "accidentally" navigate all of these steps. These MUST BE INTENTIONAL steps taken by any human user!

Even with bookmark shortcuts:

* Bookmarking any website for the first time takes 2-3 mouse clicks on very specific areas only AFTER you type the correct keystrokes to get there.

* Once set up, accessing a bookmarked site takes 3-4 mouse clicks depending on the web browser (Firefox, Chrome, Internet Explorer) on very specific areas.

There are currently 1,800 posts across 165 topics.  New topics or additional posts to current topics are added approximately 5 days per week. To be current on the latest posts and topics, requires intentional, periodic visits back into the forums and clicking on specific topics.

In fact, any user has to make an effort to come read any posts I make.  We are not "broadcasting" anything from the forum (unless someone signs up for forum notifications). Again, getting forum notification is NOT a broadcast I initiate.  It is an automated function that someone has to choose to happen on a forum or a topic.

Any other angles I am missing regarding disproving her case that I stalk or  "contact" (or broadcast to) Linda to "harass and intimidate" her? Sounds pretty far-fetched to me even by the best lawyers.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, epithets, & profanity. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2013, 09:53:33 AM »
Looks pretty spot on from what I can see.  Good analysis.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Mulligan

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2013, 11:14:47 AM »
Matt, there's a much easier way to read all posts by individual forum members because a visitor can also click on a profile name in the upper left hand corner of any post saved on the forum, which will take the visitor to the, for example, Matthew Chan profile page where the visitor can then click on "See all Posts" or something like that.

The system then shows the first few lines of every post on the forum by that person. Click and read the whole post. Rinse and repeat.

This way a visitor doesn't have to wade through posts or topics by everyone on the forum and can concentrate on individual posts by the person whose words they're checking out.

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2013, 11:43:34 AM »
This is a good point but it will still require the person to physically come to the site and then choose to click on, look at and read the posts.  They are choosing to come here and read what is posted. 

Matt, there's a much easier way to read all posts by individual forum members because a visitor can also click on a profile name in the upper left hand corner of any post saved on the forum, which will take the visitor to the, for example, Matthew Chan profile page where the visitor can then click on "See all Posts" or something like that.

The system then shows the first few lines of every post on the forum by that person. Click and read the whole post. Rinse and repeat.

This way a visitor doesn't have to wade through posts or topics by everyone on the forum and can concentrate on individual posts by the person whose words they're checking out.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2013, 11:45:54 AM »
Matthew,

I would pair your arguments with the fact that posts on the forum are in no way threatening.  I have no idea why she feels threatened when she reads the posts.

One other thing to consider, I have never tested it out on these forums but there does appear to be an RSS feed.  I don't know if it is forum specific or not.  That said, someone would have to intentionally subscribe to the RSS feed but if they did at least parts of posts would be automatically delivered to their computer when they opened their RSS reader.

But, I still think the content on the site isn't threatening so means of access are moot, but it is best to cover all bases.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 12:06:46 PM by Matthew Chan »

Matthew Chan

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2013, 12:06:03 PM »
I never knew this.  Good to know. Nevertheless, the point I will be making to the court is that no matter the preferred way of read ELI Forums posts, there has to be an intentional, conscious act to be exposed to the material here.  You still have to click the mouse a few times and navigate around to read material. It can't be  transmitted or broadcasted to anyone.

Matt, there's a much easier way to read all posts by individual forum members because a visitor can also click on a profile name in the upper left hand corner of any post saved on the forum, which will take the visitor to the, for example, Matthew Chan profile page where the visitor can then click on "See all Posts" or something like that.

The system then shows the first few lines of every post on the forum by that person. Click and read the whole post. Rinse and repeat.

This way a visitor doesn't have to wade through posts or topics by everyone on the forum and can concentrate on individual posts by the person whose words they're checking out.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, epithets, & profanity. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Matthew Chan

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 12:11:50 PM »
UJB,

Actually, the method of access is relevant according to the stalking statute.
  • (a)(1) A person commits the offense of stalking when he or she follows, places under surveillance, or contacts another person at or about a place or places without the consent of the other person for the purpose of harassing and intimidating the other person. For the purpose of this article, the terms "computer" and "computer network" shall have the same meanings as set out in Code Section 16-9-92; the term "contact" shall mean any communication including without being limited to communication in person, by telephone, by mail, by broadcast, by computer, by computer network, or by any other electronic device; and the place or places that contact by telephone, mail, broadcast, computer, computer network, or any other electronic device is deemed to occur shall be the place or places where such communication is received.

Essentially, I am tackling and discrediting the "by broadcast" portion of the argument should Linda's team bring that up.

Regarding the RSS feed, that is a bit of a stretch for all but the most sophisticated users. Even then, as you pointed out, someone had to set up the RSS feed.

One other thing to consider, I have never tested it out on these forums but there does appear to be an RSS feed.  I don't know if it is forum specific or not.  That said, someone would have to intentionally subscribe to the RSS feed but if they did at least parts of posts would be automatically delivered to their computer when they opened their RSS reader.

But, I still think the content on the site isn't threatening so means of access are moot, but it is best to cover all bases.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, epithets, & profanity. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2013, 02:58:42 PM »
UJB,

Actually, the method of access is relevant according to the stalking statute.
  • (a)(1) A person commits the offense of stalking when he or she follows, places under surveillance, or contacts another person at or about a place or places without the consent of the other person for the purpose of harassing and intimidating the other person. For the purpose of this article, the terms "computer" and "computer network" shall have the same meanings as set out in Code Section 16-9-92; the term "contact" shall mean any communication including without being limited to communication in person, by telephone, by mail, by broadcast, by computer, by computer network, or by any other electronic device; and the place or places that contact by telephone, mail, broadcast, computer, computer network, or any other electronic device is deemed to occur shall be the place or places where such communication is received.

Essentially, I am tackling and discrediting the "by broadcast" portion of the argument should Linda's team bring that up.

I thought that might be relevant too Matt, but Oscar pointed out that it only applies when it is "in violation of a bond". See thread..

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/linda-ellis-lindas-lyrics-dash-poem-letters-forum/linda-ellis-files-stalking-complaint-against-matthew-chan/msg14392/#msg14392

Perhaps it was strictly pertaining to section "(2)" ??? ???

Still, it's totally agreeable regarding the "broadcasting" of information found on ELI and the fact that she has to "come here" to read it.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 03:07:53 PM by Peeved »

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2013, 12:13:59 PM »
The broadcast, contact, etc has to be RECEIVED by the victim at her home or place of business - it has to be SENT to her by the stalker. It is only when there is already a bond or protective order in place against the stalker that merely posting or talking badly about her would violate the statute. There is a Georgia court of appeals case directly on point - Marks v. State- where an ex hubby trashed talk his ex-wife on a social media site (imagine that!) and ex-wife charged him under this statute. The court dismissed it saying that there was no contact because ex-wife voluntarily read the post herself and ex-hubby just posted it he did not send it to her. Since all of Matt's alleged "stalking" occurred in posts put up on ELI (most of them not even by him) and as she did not learn of them by him sending her to him, this case has no chance under the law ans is completely frivolous for this reason alone.       
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 10:30:00 PM by Matthew Chan »

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2013, 02:14:43 PM »
I think that she filed this complaint without understanding what the law is actually intended for.

S.G.


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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2013, 02:43:48 PM »
"The court dismissed it saying that there was no contact because ex-wife voluntarily read the post herself and ex-hubby just posted it he did not send it to her."

That appears to be a precedent that's going to dash the attempts of a certain copyright troll to silence Matt and ELI.

Peeved

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2013, 03:22:12 PM »
"The court dismissed it saying that there was no contact because ex-wife voluntarily read the post herself and ex-hubby just posted it he did not send it to her."

That appears to be a precedent that's going to dash the attempts of a certain copyright troll to silence Matt and ELI.

BAAAAaaaaaaaaada BING......BAAAaaaaaaada BOOM!

Peeved

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2013, 05:31:22 PM »
The broadcast, contact etc has to be RECEIVED by the victim at her home or place of business - it has to be SENT to her by the stalker. It is only when there is already a bond or protective order in place against the stalker that merely posting or talking badly about her would violate the statute. There is a Georgia court of appeals case directly on point - Marks v. State- where an ex hubby trashed talk his ex-wife on a social media site (imagine that!) and ex-wife charged him under this statute. The court dismissed it saying that there was no contact because ex-wife voluntarily read the post herself and ex-hubby just posted it he did not send it to her. Since all of Matt's alleged "stalking" occurred in posts put up on ELI (most of them not even by him) and as she did not learn of them by him sending her to him, this case has no chance under the law ans is completely frivolous for this reason alone.     

Thanks for posting Oscar!

It is interesting to me regarding the "bond". Seems to me that the goal to win the protective order would in turn keep Matt from being able to post or talk bad about her without violating the statute.

I say GOOD LUCK to her on all counts!

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2013, 07:45:35 PM »
The broadcast, contact etc has to be RECEIVED by the victim at her home or place of business - it has to be SENT to her by the stalker. It is only when there is already a bond or protective order in place against the stalker that merely posting or talking badly about her would violate the statute. There is a Georgia court of appeals case directly on point - Marks v. State- where an ex hubby trashed talk his ex-wife on a social media site (imagine that!) and ex-wife charged him under this statute. The court dismissed it saying that there was no contact because ex-wife voluntarily read the post herself and ex-hubby just posted it he did not send it to her. Since all of Matt's alleged "stalking" occurred in posts put up on ELI (most of them not even by him) and as she did not learn of them by him sending her to him, this case has no chance under the law ans is completely frivolous for this reason alone.     

Thanks for posting Oscar!

It is interesting to me regarding the "bond". Seems to me that the goal to win the protective order would in turn keep Matt from being able to post or talk bad about her without violating the statute.

I say GOOD LUCK to her on all counts!

I agree, her ultimate goal is to make Matthew be quiet...once again she shows her stupidity...ELI is a community..
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Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Accidental Access of Linda Ellis/Dash Poem Forums is Impossible
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2013, 07:55:29 PM »
Hasn't worked too good for her so far has it?  She now has more people looking into what she is doing and more people posting what they find and their experiences than ever before. 

The broadcast, contact etc has to be RECEIVED by the victim at her home or place of business - it has to be SENT to her by the stalker. It is only when there is already a bond or protective order in place against the stalker that merely posting or talking badly about her would violate the statute. There is a Georgia court of appeals case directly on point - Marks v. State- where an ex hubby trashed talk his ex-wife on a social media site (imagine that!) and ex-wife charged him under this statute. The court dismissed it saying that there was no contact because ex-wife voluntarily read the post herself and ex-hubby just posted it he did not send it to her. Since all of Matt's alleged "stalking" occurred in posts put up on ELI (most of them not even by him) and as she did not learn of them by him sending her to him, this case has no chance under the law ans is completely frivolous for this reason alone.     

Thanks for posting Oscar!

It is interesting to me regarding the "bond". Seems to me that the goal to win the protective order would in turn keep Matt from being able to post or talk bad about her without violating the statute.

I say GOOD LUCK to her on all counts!

I agree, her ultimate goal is to make Matthew be quiet...once again she shows her stupidity...ELI is a community..
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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