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Messages - Matthew Chan

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46
For 99% of the people, there is no "beating this" in the conventional sense because it is being done entirely outside of the court system.  Daring (or angry) folks sometimes decide they will call their bluff and not pay because they are not generally sue-worthy.  Most people tend to negotiate and settle the matter.  Everyone "pays" one way or another through their time, energy, or risk-taking if they don't pay financially.

You generally either settle or you mitigate and ride out the 3-year statute of limitations. That is the short answer.

I just received one too, claiming a small amount of $1400 for one image used twice. Asking the community to share their case information on how they beat this or what they did as the outcome of this situation. Thanks!

47
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Lapixa copyright email received by client
« on: November 02, 2018, 12:29:59 AM »
DvG,

Let's assume you are correct about fotoQuote and its usage. For most letter recipients and even myself, we have no context to judge it one way or another. Thus far, we only have your word on this supposed industry standard. Maybe folks in European photo industry know about it.  But it is new to us here on ELI. I can tell you that here in the U.S., where most of the discussions are focused on, there isn't a person in the last 10 years that has breathed a word or passed any info about fotoQuote.

So, that seems to me, that in the U.S., the folks sending out demand letters either don't know about fotoQuote or it has little or no basis in this particular market.

I certainly have no reason to believe that anything you stated is incorrect. But I can't just go by "DvG told me this, so everyone needs to believe it." There is no disparagement intended but people on defense need to be skeptical and question everything in these letters. After all, they are using these letters to squeeze questionable money out of people.  After all, I think it has been shown there is a lot of dishonesty and misrepresentations used in the pursuit of many alleged infringements.

If there are links and info sources about fotoQuote you want to share with us, by all means, post it.  There is an info vacuum on fotoQuote. I only did a cursory Google search and found very little of any meaningful significance.

48
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Lapixa copyright email received by client
« on: October 23, 2018, 12:29:36 AM »
A Lapixa letter was submitted to me for review so I had the opportunity to read it over.

Lapixa has a website and a contact page: https://lapixa.com/contact/

Based on the letter and website, Lapixa appears to be a German-based operation. However, they are claiming 25 New Chardon St, Boston, MA as its U.S. presence.  Based on this alone, most people in the U.S. don't have to worry too much about it. The name "Serge Licht, CEO" is signed on the letter.

Based on the one Napixa letter, they are asking payment for a "retroactive license" plus an "administration fee". I have never seen an "administration fee" in addition to a retroactive license fee before.

Another thing that Lapixa does is source "FotoQuote" which Lapixa claims to be "the industry standard photo pricing guide." The only thing I could find on FotoQuote is that it appears to be software developed by Cradox fotoSoftware.  Without seeing the software, it sounds to me anyone can buy the software and upload any kind of values into it.  As such, it does not strike to me as any real measurement of market value of any given photo.

In the context of ELI discussions, market value of photos are NOT what is listed on any website. It is actually what any given photo has been sold for. Of course, that is generally inaccessible to the public because the public never really know what prices real customers pay for any given image or in some cases, an image was ever sold at all!

For people in North America, I do not see Lapixa demand letters as any real threat at this early juncture. Things could change in the future but for now, this is my first awareness of Lapixa.

49
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Lapixa copyright email received by client
« on: October 19, 2018, 04:23:08 PM »
I have not heard about this Lapixa firm before.  Do you mind emailing it to me at matt30060 / gmail so I can have a look at it?

I appreciate the reassurance. I did provide her with the info/invoice on my site subscription and when the image was licensed and downloaded. Unfortunately, Adobe Stock doesn't provide much more than that for the images licensed through a monthly subscription, but hopefully it will do. I have not used the image anywhere else.

I'm very frustrated by all of this as I try to be super careful about only using images I have downloaded from stock sites with a purchase or subscription. Is there any way to prevent this from happening again? Or do I just have to continue to be prepared with documentation as needed?

And I will certainly post if I hear anything more from her on this.

50
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Lapixa copyright email received by client
« on: October 18, 2018, 06:40:40 PM »
You said you licensed it so the license is under your name and website, not your client.  So that is probably how the situation got flagged. It seems to me you just need to explain the situation of what happened. The image was obtained legitimately by you on behalf of the client. This happens frequently with contractors and their clients.  Get your proof of purchase/receipt where you did this.  It also helps if you are not using the image anywhere else.

Let us know how it turns out.

Hi, All!

I'm curious about an email that a former client of mine received. I built a website for her about 18 months ago and used several images that I licensed through my account with Adobe Stock. She received an email this week from a company called Lapixa, who is claiming that one of these images is an "unauthorized use" of their client's work.

The email mentions "In the interest of avoiding litigation we would like to offer you a retroactive license to cover the use which has already occurred on your website, subject to compliance with the following conditions by November 8, 2018" with said conditions including removing the image from the site (which I have already done) and paying a "retroactive fee" of around $450.

I'm not entirely sure what to do. Adobe Stock does allow for transferral of license to employer/client, so do they have any kind of a case here? While I am no longer doing work for this client, I still want to keep former clients happy, because, you know, good references and all that.

Thanks for the help.

51
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Pixsy Letter Questions
« on: October 18, 2018, 05:12:49 AM »
ELI used to be a much more rough-and-tumble place. I would be the first person to admit that because I initiated a lot of the "rough and tumble" in the early years of ELI. However, ELI (as well as I) have evolved over time. I'd like to think I am a bit wiser now. I try to let community members do their thing here on ELI and give great latitude but honestly, I prefer ELI to not be such a rough-and-tumble place as it once was. Maybe UT's approach may have been more fitting years ago.  But ELI has passed 10 years now. We aren't the quite the "young rebellious community" we once were. I prefer to escalate the signal-to-noise ratio.

I really don't want to be a baby-sitter, nor does anyone else want to be one. I have respectfully and politely asked UT to change his channel. I hope he will agree because I do think he has some interesting perspectives. Otherwise, it will be time to part ways.

As usual, Unfairly Targeted’s advice is horrible and should only be viewed as comic relief.   I do agree with Mr. Chan.  He is a liability to the casual reader who is looking for useful information.   If this forum’s goal is to be a reliable place for thoughtful discussion, there is a strong case to be made that he undermines that goal.   If it is a place for venting and banter, well...

52
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Pixsy Letter Questions
« on: October 18, 2018, 04:59:04 AM »
I did miss that second post where the OP asserted what he believed was a trespass. Assuming it is true, it is still a bit hard to prove and doesn't take away from the fact the photog owns the image. It could possibly inflame the situation also. Pros and cons to everything.

I get your meaning about "the way it's done on the street". I also get that being a "difficult" target also has its merits. I, on occasion, myself have engaged in unorthodox and unconventional (but entirely legal) strategies to create favorable outcomes for myself but I try to use precise language and qualify what I say so that people don't misinterpret my statements as something THEY should blindly follow and do.

If one wants to discuss such unconventional tactics responsibly, I recommend using more thought and careful language vs. overly blunt, simplistic, "blurty" language on a consistent basis.  I am certainly not a prude by far (having used my share of street language as well) but at the same time (as community host) I am not trying to cultivate an entire community of "brutish, thuggish" street posts either.

I am a big believer in allowing maximum latitude for people to post freely but if recklessness is going to be the norm, I am not (nor others on ELI are) going to want to keep "cleaning up" after such comments.

You been here on ELI long enough.  You know what goes on here.  You know the program. I think you are a smart person. I think you know what is appropriate and responsible and what is not. It is time to switch channels starting now. Okay? I hope you get my meaning.

If it is unclear, then I can just resolve the entire issue myself unilaterally. Let's all get on the same page, shall we?

The OP said the photographer climbed fences and snuck past alarms.  I don't think there's any way the dickhead photographer was there legally.  So he should be called out. And punished for his holier than you stance with his stupid photo.

My strategy is to be such a thorny dick that nobody will want to mess with sending another stupid letter.  There's the legal way to do things and the way it's done on the street.

53
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Copytrack extortion letter
« on: October 16, 2018, 09:09:53 PM »
Thank you for your well thought out post. I respect your view as a photographer and get where you are coming from. However, the central issues of extreme contention which keeps ELI alive and well are:

1.  There is no warning letter whatsoever.  Just out of the blue, a demand letter shows up demanding thousands of dollars based on no particular rhyme, reason, or formula. And yet the major media companies actually do and practice this. It is the smaller players who engage in these ugly, distasteful practices.

2.  The amounts being demanded is almost an outrageous, outlandish amount that is not connected to the market value of an image.  It is almost an intentionally punitive amount.

3. These are not generally criminal matters, they are civil matters. But some do their best to "criminalize" the matter and use that fear to coerce excessive amounts of money for "compensation".

4. Not all infringements are "deserving" of monetary compensation.  Some infringements are of a "de minimus" nature. Yes, it is upsetting to see someone infringe your work. I have seen others directly pirate my published works over the years and I have sent unhappy emails over the years. But I made no monetary demands of them. But I did demand they take down the material.  Because you know why?  They are usually rinky-dink infringements from some poor schmuck who didn't know better and I called them out. And they COPIED the material, they didn't literally take it from me. I still have the source just like all photographers still have their original image. They are not deprived of their image.  To be clear, I am not saying that there aren't situations where monetary demands aren't sometimes appropriate but there are a lot of cases I see where it is simply a punitive and excessive profit play.

I agree with many statements you make. We do try to educate people.  And as "liberal" as I might be for the defense, some stuff I hear is just plain ridiculous.  Some people propose some outlandish reasons to justify piracy and infringements. However, many people are in the grey area where it is not so clear.

Content creation does cost time and money. This website has plenty of content.  I have written and produced many books and audio programs.  People are constantly using ELI information and reading/using what I write without compensating me. Should I start locking down everything nailing every single person who "profited" from my work and knowledge? Should I start beating everyone for money because of the benefits they derive? If I did that, then I surmise it will be celebratory day for Higbee, Getty, Masterfile, PicRights, ImageRights, and scores of photographers.

I would say many photogs have a very narrow view of how to handle their photography. They have a very narrow view how to monetize and benefit from their photography beyond plastering it on photography websites and using companies to squeeze/extort money from ignorant/unknowing infringers.

Since I am not being paid by anyone how to handle these things, I will keep my information and my advice to photogs to myself. But I will provide a hint.  Read the book "Free" by Chris Anderson.  There are clues and suggestions there.  But trying to beat and extort money out of every perceived wrong and de minimus infringement will result in a lot of bad energy and bad karma.  That is why there is such a bad reaction. People know "fair and reasonable" when they see it. "Squeeze, scare, and get as much as you can" is still the rule of the day.

Every occupation has an occupational hazard of some kind. For any content producers (photographers, authors, publishers, etc), piracy is an occupational hazard. If you are constantly worried about beating down and extorting money from every infringer you find, that is your right but you might be in the wrong business. Keep your images private and never use it publicly.  That is the only surefire way to have your images never be pirated or infringed upon.

If it costs so much to produce photos, then get out of the business!  Keep it as a hobby but make money doing something else. Being a photog could be hazardous to your financial well-being and your reputation!

I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to chime in as a photographer, who is not making a ton of money but a lot of my photos routinely get stolen and used allover the internet with zero compensation to me. I use Copytrack to help me track those websites and go after them for payment.

So I actually think it's horrible the way you guys are talking about it because, honestly, it doesn't matter if you're a small company or a blog or not profitable or whatever, you are using someone else's work for free and trying to get away with it by providing "credit", which frankly doesn't pay my bills. Photography is not free, even if you can find it on google images with a quick search and save it on your computer, it doesn't mean you can just put it up on your website for free. Content creation costs money.

So even though Copytrack starts out by asking pretty high amounts of money (which is typically our normal rate + damages because the photographer has the right to decide what kind of website can use their work), you should at the very least try to negotiate it down to something you can afford and pay it. At the end of the day if you can't afford to pay for the images then you should be using royalty free images or not have a website at all. "I don't make enough money so I should be able to use other people's work for free because they can't stop me" is a terrible argument, sorry!

I know some of you got into this situation thinking what you were doing is ok but please educate yourself on this and pay the poor photographer!! Even if it's not the full amount they're asking, anything is better than nothing and you benefited from their work so it's the right thing to do.

54
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Pixsy Letter Questions
« on: October 16, 2018, 08:13:27 PM »
There are many situations where people can legally be on a property they do not own.  Renters, friends/guest of renters, people on legitimate business, etc. are all examples of reasons why someone would come on or near any real estate property they do not own.  Making such claims without firm evidence is reckless, irresponsible, and most importantly damages the credibility to the person making the claims. Sure, if he wants to do make such a claim, he can. Then going forward, that person lacks credibility and then no one will pay attention. Further, it would be completely ineffective.

Perhaps you feel that you are anonymous and have received a great deal of freedom to post your messages, you don't feel responsibility that someone MIGHT actually follow your advice?  Or is it your contention that if someone is "dumb enough" to follow questionable "advice", they deserve what is coming to them? I have been reading your posts and I am not sure what your intentions are. Are you trying to legitimately help people?  Are you trying to vent?  Or are you trying to troll people?

I am going to tell you straight up that if you don't feel any responsibility for what you post, beyond your own personal gratification,  or you are trying to troll people with reckless suggestions, you may want to consider voluntarily disabling your ELI account.

If you want to contact me directly and privately at matt30060 / gmail, please feel free to do so. The last thing I want is a misunderstanding. But I am getting the vibe that you might be trying to troll ELI community. If I am wrong, please do let us know.

I'd report the photographer to the landowner along with the information that he's illegally selling photos he has no permission to take, encouraging the landowner to press criminal trespassing charges.  I'd also respond to Pixsy with the same, telling them pressing this matter further will land the photographer in criminal trouble.

You should not pay anything when you haven't broken the law, but the photographer clearly has committed crimes.

The double standard and hipocrasy of these stupid wannabe hacks that hire Pixsy never fail to amaze me.

55
"Crime" is a strong word that I would not use unless it is used in a hyperbolic sense. No one is being prosecuted by any government entity.  Most of the small time infringements we discuss here can never be escalated to any truly criminal matter.  A speeding ticket is more of a "crime" than the infringements we discuss because the police get involved in speeding tickets. If you don't pay it, the city, county, or state doesn't like it very much for ignoring the ticket.

That said, I truly believe that most people are unaware that they are even committing a crime.

56
Regarding "American adults engaged in business"....

I am sad to tell you I know many people who have been in business for years and STILL know so little about how the online world works. Using the default search is a feat much less choosing a search engine. Many still don't know they can actually choose a search engine, period.

The lack of basic computer proficiency clicking around Windows, copying and pasting files, saving files, using Word, Excel, etc. and basic typing skills is sadly still alive and well today.

Given this very low baseline that still exists to this day, it is not a far stretch that the issue of IP and copyright is extremely far away with many people.

You also have business people who naively hire overseas freelancers expecting ethical behavior but it turns out they pirate many elements of their work.

Let's remember, there are still huge swaths of people whose only Internet access is their phone.  Some very small timers operate that way. Lots of "street entrepreneurs" out there who dabble online. When they eventually "graduate" to a computer, it is not surprising that there will be new people who fall into the trap.

And for the record, I find interacting with someone with such a low base of computer knowledge very painful to witness.   And even people who are "intelligent", it is shocking the level of ignorance that continue to exist.

From my understanding the copyright notice has always been there.   Furthermore, I think the reasonable American adult, especially one who is engaged in business, should have enough commonsense to know (1) Google is not a free library of images and (2) that you cannot just take and use what you do not own.

57
I would agree with your statement.  Most people don't really learn about the ins and outs of this stuff until they get their first demand letter.

However, there are a fair amount of people who "sort of know and should know" but don't really pay heed until they get hit directly.  There are people on different parts of the infringement spectrum.

The problem you expect the normal person to know and understand it and before they had the notice for copy rights it was not clear or understandable for people who don't understand computers or how it works.
There's a reason why it happens so many times.

58
Higbee Associates Letter & Lawsuits Forum / Re: New tactic
« on: October 02, 2018, 03:40:24 PM »
Let's be clear here.  There are almost no images you can use from Google Images without some scrutiny, discernment, permission, or some kind of license.

If you haven't gotten the lesson yet, stop using Google Images to obtain your images.

It’s two times in two years and I used Google Images to get any images that are allowed without permission and we all know how the Youngson honeypot operation goes.

I understand that the sample complaint might be some sort of ploy, but I was just surprised how badly drafted the complaint was.


59
DvG is fine. I don't consider him an enemy.  We certainly disagree on a few things but I think he has done an admirable job on ELI integrating himself here with his perspectives. It ain't easy being a photographer on the ELI forums!  :)

Mr. Goliath is in a wrong forum. That said, it is good to have your enemies close. :)

60
I try to be fair to everyone and let everyone post their opinions and ideas even if I don't necessarily agree or endorse them. But once in a great while, someone hits a sore point by crossing the line.  Some people think ELI is just a free-for-all and that is not entirely true.

IN the 10 years ELI has been in existence, it has never been in dispute that when there is a demand letter/notification about an infringed imaged, the very first thing is to just remove the image to assess the situation and the validity of the claim. This is a matter of principle, not just a legal matter.

It is difficult to claim ignorance on not being willful if you INTENTIONALLY leave it up after getting a demand letter. It inflames and aggravates the situation, period end of story.

UT has the right to have his belief and share "his message" but no one is going to constantly "clean up" after his posts on ELI. I would rather have someone just leave ELI if that is the case.

UT is more than welcome to stay on ELI but he should reconsider if he is a good fit here if he continues to espouse unwise rants and "advice". Sort of like some photographers who have occasionally tried to jump here into ELI. Many are not a good fit here on ELI.

For example, DavidvGoliath seems to be a photographer and does a good job fitting into ELI. He is able to respectfully state his positions and opinions from a photographer perspective but also engage and consider the larger fabric of discussion.

You and other legal minds have also done a good job integrating your voices into the larger fabric of ELI discussion.  The collective intelligence here improves when people are able to integrate into the larger discussions.

I haven't quite figured out if UT "gets" ELI yet but maybe he will be more thoughtful going forward and not be so reckless.

UnfairlyTargeted is a steady stream of horrible advice.  It is reckless and constant, despite continuous correction and coaching.  Unless someone views him as comic relief, he hurts the credibility of this site.  He may mean well, but he needs a disclaimer or giant asterisk by his posts.

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