ExtortionLetterInfo Forums

Retired Forums => UK Getty Images Letter Forum => Topic started by: guy87 on June 12, 2012, 02:35:11 PM

Title: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: guy87 on June 12, 2012, 02:35:11 PM
I received a letter from Getty image about 2 years ago saying I was using an image on my website, which wasn't even a business but a test college project. I removed it immediately. I removed the website a few months later when I got into a real job. They sent a few more letters, which after reading some forum posts which stated that it was a scam, I ignored. I have just received a letter from a debt collection company called atradius asking for £1176.95. I really don't know what to do. They never asked for it to be removed "Cease and Desist", they just asked for money. Any advise?
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on June 12, 2012, 02:46:16 PM
Read. The. Forum. Posts.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: guy87 on June 12, 2012, 03:08:06 PM
I have, I can't find a definitive answer for what to do. Some people say ignore, some say settle out of court and some say contact them. This is really causing quite a bit of distress now.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on June 12, 2012, 03:29:15 PM
I have, I can't find a definitive answer for what to do. Some people say ignore, some say settle out of court and some say contact them. This is really causing quite a bit of distress now.

You can't find a definitive answer, because there is none, it's a choice you have to make on how to deal with it, based on the suggestions here, every case is different as are peoples personalities.. Unfortunately not many of here are up to speed on the laws in the UK and we've not had anyone willing to really step up to the plate to help you folks.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: doggycase on June 15, 2012, 10:07:26 PM
I have, I can't find a definitive answer for what to do. Some people say ignore, some say settle out of court and some say contact them. This is really causing quite a bit of distress now.

I suggest you should hire Oscar for that (only if you can afford to spend $195 for the Getty Images letter). How many images do you have copied unintentionally from them? It is highly doubtful that you can be taken to court for this kind of case only.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on June 16, 2012, 07:30:43 AM
Hiring Oscar is not an option, as this is a UK case, and Oscar is a US Attorney..

I have, I can't find a definitive answer for what to do. Some people say ignore, some say settle out of court and some say contact them. This is really causing quite a bit of distress now.

I suggest you should hire Oscar for that (only if you can afford to spend $195 for the Getty Images letter). How many images do you have copied unintentionally from them? It is highly doubtful that you can be taken to court for this kind of case only.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on June 18, 2012, 11:11:31 AM
There can't be a debt without a contract. Just reply stating that you have never entered into any contract with Getty and unless a valid contract is produced you will not enter into any further communication. I'd also mention that you periodically check your credit history and if you notice anything untoward on your credit history you will be seeking legal representation.

I'd be surprised if you ever heard from them again.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on June 18, 2012, 11:19:22 AM
Here you are

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/consumer_leaflets/credit/oft1299.pdf

"What if the debt is not yours or you have paid your debt?
If you don't think the debt is yours, you don't think you owe the amount being asked for
or if you have already paid the debt, tell the debt collector immediately. 
You don't have to give any documentation to the debt collector. They must provide
information to you to prove you owe the money."

I'm not a lawyer but proof of the debt would surely have to be a contract between you and Getty stating the terms of the contract and have your signature or e-signature and date. Since that doesn't exist neither does the debt.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: gettyhater on July 09, 2012, 03:17:15 PM
As mentioned in another forum group on this site, my client has also received a letter from this company.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/a-new-collection-agency-working-with-getty/

Here is the letter received :

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/zadmt) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/zadmt)
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/zadmt

Was yours the same or similar?
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: stinger on July 10, 2012, 09:03:59 AM
I am not a lawyer, but when I read this letter it appears to acknowledge that this is not a debt, but a settlement demand.  "Our clients have provided you with a settlement demand . . . "

I thought that, by law, debt collectors can only collect on debts.  Seems fishy to me that they would acknowledge this in their letter.

I do like the part about "Please contact us immediately with any payment proposal you might have."  They would probably really, really, like that.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on July 10, 2012, 10:19:52 AM
This is definitely a debt collection. You can tell by the last paragraph discussing the option of a payment plan. Something you have to offer as a debt collector here in the UK.

None of the letters from lawyers I've seen have ever mentioned that and I've read here and elsewhere that if you speak to Getty directly they refuse the option of a payment plan.

Of interest is their threat of legal action. The only action a debt collector can take is to first issue a CCJ which is only effective in damaging your credit history. They also couldn't pursue you for copyright infringement because Getty hasn't assigned them the right to or they'd have to have told you that and provided proof.

I would recommend phoning the Office of Fair Trading and discussing the letter received and whether it is within their guidelines. If it is not the OFT are usually quite good at taking action and can revoke a licence.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: RyanM on September 11, 2012, 06:01:04 AM
I received a letter from Getty demanding settlement of £815.65 back in February. After a few communications with them when they were deliberately evasive in their replies, following advice found online I ignored the issue and heard nothing until now.

A letter from Atradius Collections was received on the 10th September but dated 31st August, an identical copy of which can be found on these forums, in which they advised that if the payment wasn't received within 5 days of the date (already passed when received) then they would have no choice but to advise their client to pursue the matter legally.

Any suggestions as to how to respond?
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on September 11, 2012, 08:21:37 AM
Depends how you came to have the image on your website.

If it was an innocent mistake or somebody else put it there and you have asked Getty for proof they have been assigned the right, by the copyright holder, to bring a claim against you then consider the matter closed until you have received such proof.

If you haven't asked for such proof then it's probably a good idea to write them a letter requesting it.

At that point I think it's fair that you can consider the matter closed until you receive such proof. Just note they'll try to tell you a screenshot of your website along with being able to find the image on their website is proof. It isn't.

If you can be bothered send the Atradius letter to the Office of Fair Trading and make a complaint about a 5 day deadline for settling any demand which is blatantly a tactic to scare you into paying.

If it wasn't an innocent mistake and you placed it there after taking it from a site that clearly displays a copyright notice then I'm not sure anyone here can assist you and you should probably get legal advice.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: RyanM on September 11, 2012, 08:55:04 AM
I'm quite sure the image was included as part of a template package purchased online but unfortunately I no longer have any documentation regarding the template as it was purchased nearly 8 years ago and the company used no longer exists.

I have copies of emails between myself and Getty from February regarding my request for proof they have been assigned the right to licence the picture and their response was:

'Getty Images has been licencing this image for the last 10 years. As previously mentioned, Getty Images represents the photographer who owns the copyright in these images.  Rights Managed images, such as the ones at issue, are exclusive to Getty Images and available for license only through our website.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on September 11, 2012, 09:03:56 AM
as usual they provide no proof...tell them to pound salt..

I'm quite sure the image was included as part of a template package purchased online but unfortunately I no longer have any documentation regarding the template as it was purchased nearly 8 years ago and the company used no longer exists.

I have copies of emails between myself and Getty from February regarding my request for proof they have been assigned the right to licence the picture and their response was:

'Getty Images has been licencing this image for the last 10 years. As previously mentioned, Getty Images represents the photographer who owns the copyright in these images.  Rights Managed images, such as the ones at issue, are exclusive to Getty Images and available for license only through our website.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Mulligan on September 11, 2012, 01:13:32 PM
No proof = no money.

Here in the states, copyright troll and collection lawyer Timothy B. McCormack of Seattle, Washington, does exactly the same thing. He sends out a few letters demanding more money than Getty's original demand, knowing that many people will freak and pay if they get a letter with a LAWYER letterhead on it (oh, scary!) and think, "Oh, Getty's really serious about this. They've hired a lawyer. I better pay."

The point is, the slime-encrusted lawyers and collection agents working for Getty for a percentage of the settlement do not have legal proof to demand money because if they did have it you can be sure they'd present it from the get-go.

Like Robert said, tell them to pound sand.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: RyanM on September 11, 2012, 03:40:18 PM
Whilst it may not be totally relevant as someone has stated in another post that this isn't considered a debt as there is no contract between myself and Getty, they have sent a settlement demand, the letter received from Atradius Collections implies by their name and content of their website that they are a debt collection agency, however, interestingly according to the Office of Fair Trading's public register their licence has lapsed.

Application / Licence Details
Licence Number:0590150
Licence Status:Lapsed on 07/09/2011
Current Applicant / Licensee:
Business Name   Company Registration Number
Atradius Collections Limited   3429221
Categories:
Credit reference agency
Debt adjusting/counselling
Debt collecting
Right To Canvass Off Trade Premises:No
Trading Name(s) (Current):
Atradius Collections
Issued Date: 07-Sep-2006
Legal Formation:
Body Corporate (incorporated inside UK)
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on September 11, 2012, 03:47:31 PM
even more reason to report them to the proper folks over there!! Do it today, DO IT NOW!

Whilst it may not be totally relevant as someone has stated in another post that this isn't considered a debt as there is no contract between myself and Getty, they have sent a settlement demand, the letter received from Atradius Collections implies by their name and content of their website that they are a debt collection agency, however, interestingly according to the Office of Fair Trading's public register their licence has lapsed.

Application / Licence Details
Licence Number:0590150
Licence Status:Lapsed on 07/09/2011
Current Applicant / Licensee:
Business Name   Company Registration Number
Atradius Collections Limited   3429221
Categories:
Credit reference agency
Debt adjusting/counselling
Debt collecting
Right To Canvass Off Trade Premises:No
Trading Name(s) (Current):
Atradius Collections
Issued Date: 07-Sep-2006
Legal Formation:
Body Corporate (incorporated inside UK)
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on September 12, 2012, 08:01:39 AM
I did a little more digging on Atradius and can see why they aren't on the register in that guise. They are now based in Amsterdam and 'passport' their services into the UK using EU law.

This is the information I've found.

ATRADIUS CREDIT INSURANCE N.V.
DAVID RICARDOSTRAAT 1
1066 JS AMSTERDAM
THE NETHERLANDS
Company No. FC02138

UK Establishment Details
UK Est. Number:   BR004651
Name, Address:    GERLING NCM
3 HARBOUR DRIVE
CAPITAL WATERSIDE
CARDIFF
CF1 6TZ
Date Open:   01/10/1998
Closed(Y):   
Type of Business:   EXPORT & DOMESTIC CREDIT INSURANCE

Oversea Company Info
Registered at:   CARDIFF on 01/10/1998
Country of Origin:   NETHERLANDS
Parent Registry:   TRADE REGISTER, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE & INDUSTRY OF AMSTERDAM NL
Registration Number:   33024388
Legal Form:   LIMITED COMPANY OF ORDINARY STRUCTURE
Number of UK Establishments:   1 Open
Documents held at Company / UK Establishment office:   BR004651
Required to publish accounts from:   / to /
Accounts delivered to:   20111231

Unfortunately for them to passport in they have to register with the Financial Services Authority. It would be very easy to make life difficult for them by complaining about them to the FSA for their unfair debt recovery practises along with complaining to the office of fair trading particularly highlighting the 5 days to pay.

Their FSA number is 203118.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: RyanM on September 13, 2012, 08:44:37 AM
I've spoken to the FSA who were very helpful. Having briefed them on the background and read the letter received to them, they went away and checked with another division and believe that the services Atradius Credit Insurance N.V. are authorised to 'passport' to the UK do not cover the work they are conducting on behalf of Getty and referred me back to the Office of Fair Trading who indeed confirmed that Atradius Collections Ltd's licence on the Consumer Credit Public Register has expired. Therefore, I have gone back to Atradius asking them to confirm, based on the above, under whose jurasdiction and what entity they are operating under.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on September 13, 2012, 09:07:23 AM
Cheers Ryan and well done for following up with the relevant authorities.

Let us know when you hear back. Have the OFT suggested any action they can take on your behalf?
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: RyanM on September 13, 2012, 09:38:42 AM
The OFT cannot take up individual cases and would have to look in to the company further to check whether they need a licence to do what they are doing, it may be the case that they can behave in this manner unregulated. If that is the case I intend to take it up with my local MP.

They said that anyone experiencing issues with Atradius should report them through their complaints process, although they won't assist on an individual basis they will add it to any intelligence they may already have on the organisation and take action as necessary but they need as many complaints as possible.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: RyanM on September 17, 2012, 12:48:08 PM
The following reply to my email was received today:


First of all I wish to clarify that we are pursuing your for copyright infringement, we are requesting settlement for your infringement and not a debt, we do not need a licence for this.

Furthermore you have already been informed that the agreement between our client and the photographer is confidential. You are not entitled to see it and it is subject to data protection laws.

Our client has confirmed that they represent the photographer and have supplied full image details which should be more than sufficient evidence.

The charge being made is a set fee that applies to your infringement. It’s roughly based on the image size and use.

As you didn’t purchase the item correctly and legally in the first place you cannot now expect to pay its current listed price. Furthermore the prices listed now will not be the same as the prices listed when the infringement occurred.

Rights-managed or rights-controlled images are licensed based upon several variable factors, such as price, placement and length of use. They generally average several hundred pounds to license.  An unauthorised use is not priced in the same way as a previously arranged and properly licensed image sale. The settlement amount also accounts for the losses incurred as a result of the unauthorised use, including, but not limited to, lost licensing fees and use of third-party services.  Getty Images has incurred additional losses as a result of the pursuit of the unauthorised use.

Our client has had to invest heavily in encoding software and search tools because of companies such as yours which claim they are freely able to use any image they come across on the internet. Due to this our client is fully entitled to recover the expenses they incur to trace infringers websites.

You should be aware that copyright exists upon the moment of creation. The mere existence of an image protects it under copyright law.  Getty Images represents the photographers who own the copyright in the imagery.

The accidental use of an image does not excuse the user from copyright infringement. As you may know, it is the responsibility of the end user to ensure that any content that is copied, publicly displayed and/or publicly distributed does not infringe any copyrights.  Regardless of your company's intent, it is still liable for the unauthorized use of Getty Images represented content.

Despite reliance on a third party, such as a web designer or web host, the end user of the copyrighted image is liable for the display of the imagery on their website.  The third party has the option, but not the legal obligation, to settle on your behalf.  Due to the fact that Getty Images does not have a claim against them, they are unable to send official correspondence to them directly if they are unable or unwilling to settle this matter on your behalf.

Clearly it is within the interests of all concerned to avoid legal action if possible as these proceedings are costly to both sides, However, if we do not receive payment for the use of the image we will have little alternative but defend our clients right to payment for use of their image.  We hope you will take this into consideration when responding and we look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on September 17, 2012, 01:23:37 PM
Are they a law firm, licensed to practice law??
"First of all I wish to clarify that we are pursuing your for copyright infringement, we are requesting settlement for your infringement and not a debt"
Where is the proof? just because they say they represent someone does not make it fact
"Our client has confirmed that they represent the photographer and have supplied full image details which should be more than sufficient evidence."
Roughly based?? WTF is that about, DEMAND they tell you EXACTLY how they come to this number.
" It’s roughly based on the image size and use."
They have not proven you did not purchase the image correctly or otherwise, it is on them to prove this claim.
"As you didn’t purchase the item correctly and legally in the first place"
You should demand a complete breakdown of the "losses incurred", in other words a complete sales history of this image..and they still have not proven "unauthorized use.
"The settlement amount also accounts for the losses incurred as a result of the unauthorised use."
Getty thenmselves elected to purchase PICSCOUT, and again don't let them "accuse" you or your company of anything, they have not proven their case.
"Our client has had to invest heavily in encoding software and search tools because of companies such as yours which claim they are freely able to use any image they come across on the internet. "
again, show me the proof!
"Getty Images represents the photographers who own the copyright in the imagery.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the UK have an "innoncent infringement law"
"The accidental use of an image does not excuse the user from copyright infringement."
They like to shove this in your face it seems...
" Regardless of your company's intent, it is still liable for the unauthorized use of Getty Images represented content."

Atradius Collections = just another troll company using scare tactics to get folks to send them money for no good reason...I'd be willing to bet whomever dradfted this piece of rubbish did not have the balls to sign a name to it!!


Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on September 19, 2012, 06:57:33 AM
Well, thanks to that reply from Atradius I think you can firmly tell them where to go.

UK law is quite clear: "Only the owner of the copyright or exclusive licensee may bring an action for
civil copyright infringement"

Copyright holder: Photographer
Exclusive licensee: Getty (although debatable)
Not a copyright holder or exclusive licensee: Atradius.

You mentioned your letter was the same as the one earlier. Having checked that Atradius requests that payment is made to their bank account, not Getty's. They also offer a payment plan which Getty do not do. All of these point to debt collection.

If, as they state, they are pursuing you for copyright infringement then quite simply they cannot and have no right to unless they can produce documentation assigning them that right by the copyright holder (the photographer, not Getty).

Tell them not to contact you again unless they can provide proof they have the right to chase this.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: taniyam13 on September 22, 2012, 06:13:55 AM
Robert Krausankas is right. It was some mistake. If you have confused that what do you want. You can get help by court.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: e12345 on October 04, 2012, 10:09:19 AM
Hello,

I am in a similar situation with Atradius and I have already replied asking about the copyright ownership, however they ignored this and have pestered me with calls and emails.

Can you please advise on what to do next?
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on October 04, 2012, 10:51:46 AM
Easy,

Tell them not to contact you by any method other than in writing. Make them send you letters. If they don't send it recorded delivery bin it.

If they do send it recorded, refuse delivery and have it sent back.

I don't believe they have any legal right to pursue you for copyright infringement because they are neither the copyright holder or exclusive licensee so I don't see why you should extend them any courtesy unless they can prove otherwise.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: RyanM on October 24, 2012, 05:36:47 AM
I responded to their email as follows:

Thank you for your response.

I am afraid however, that I take issue with several of your points;

1. You claim you are requesting settlement for an alleged copyright infringement. Atradius is neither a copyright holder or exclusive licensee and as such, unless you provide me with documentary evidence that you have been assigned the right to pursue this claim by the copyright holder (in this case the photographer, not Getty Images), then I do not consider you to have any right to pursue this matter.

2. You consistently fail to provide any proof that Getty Images is in fact the exclusive licensee of the image in question. I do not accept your, or your client's word as sufficient evidence, nor do I accept your claim that it is protected by client confidentiality and that I am not entitled to see it.  Put simply, it is for your client to demonstrate fully their right to make this claim and failure to do so leaves them with no claim at all.

3. You claim that the settlement demand for the alleged infringement is "roughly based on the image size and use", and "the settlement amount also accounts for the losses incurred as a result of the unauthorised use." Firstly, again, in your failure to provide documentary evidence that your client is the exclusive licensee you have not proven unauthorised use, and, secondly I do not accept 'roughly' calculated figures. I must insist that you provide a full breakdown of the calculated costs, neither Atradius or Getty Images are Judge and Jury and cannot simply pluck figures out of the air, they must be fully substantiated.

I look forward to your response and viewing the documentary evidence I have reasonably requested and have every right to see before I am to believe there is any merit to this claim.

-----

I got the following reply this morning:

As you have failed to deal with this matter in the correct manner and persist in wasting time asking for information which is irrelevant, we are not willing to discuss the matter with you any further.

As you know it is the end user who is liable for the imagery on their site. The end users claim will be against you as the web designer and we will advise them to seek legal advice on how to deal with you.

The fact remains that you did not obtain a licence to use the image.

Please do not contact us again unless you have the correct licensing information for the image. Any further communication that does not include relevant licensing information will be ignored.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on October 24, 2012, 06:32:43 AM
hahaha, put this in your files, just in case you need it ( which I doubt) a judge would love to see this. If I were you and I understand this correctly, you might want to contact your client, as they seemingly will be gunning for them now, I would advise your client, to send them the exact same letters you sent them. direct your client here to the forum, so they can see how this bogus collection agency acts..
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on October 24, 2012, 08:08:43 AM
Although their reply doesn't confirm anything it only serves to strengthen my belief they have no legal right to chase this on Getty's behalf.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on October 24, 2012, 08:10:37 AM

As you have failed to deal with this matter in the correct manner and persist in wasting time asking for information which is irrelevant, we are not willing to discuss the matter with you any further.

I would definitely reply and ask what the correct manner is in dealing with an infringement case. I would love to see them justify how your approach is wrong.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Greg Troy (KeepFighting) on October 24, 2012, 08:59:53 AM
Very nicely done, I love it when people stand up to the trolls and make them squirm.  Great Job!
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Mulligan on October 24, 2012, 10:16:00 AM
Print and frame that email. It's rare to see one of these trolls capitulate so soundly. Good job!
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: coleman1b on November 01, 2012, 09:29:39 AM
Hi

I have been dealing with Getty for about a year now and more recently Atradius.

I have received several letters from Getty regarding copywright infringement, which I chose to ignore until I got a letter from Atradius, which did in fact look more like a debt collection letter, in fact they call themselves Atradius Collections Ltd.

I spoke to a Uk Solicitor about 2 months ago whom I can not remember the name of unfortunately because he has been dealing with Getty cases in the UK for about 12 years now, and like others on this forum also told me to write to Atradius to ask for proof of licence between getty and the original rights holder.

This is a synopsis of what I got back from Atradius
" Your statement that we have to supply you with the contact between the photographer and our client is incorrect"

"Indeed it is you that has to supply to us a licence you have to use the image. As you cannot do this our client is entitiled to claim damages from you on behalf of the photographer."

And so on regarding the infingement of copywright and that a business does not know of that infringement is of no defence.

Then on a seperate piece of paper they sent me a copy of a bill for the Debtor: Nigel O'Hara
Their reference number, and wait for it-
Unpaid invoices to JENS J. AAGAARD A/S AS

Doesn't that sound a bit Dutch to you, it certainly does to me, and thankfully as I think since Ryan has done some research on the credit licence of Atradius and they are operating from Amsterdam in Holland it is certainly sounding very fishy.

Anyway I will be copying the reply and sending it to Atradius and telling them to go suck a duck.

Thank you for all your posts



Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi) on November 01, 2012, 09:39:46 AM
Actually Coleman, it falls on THEM to prove this claim.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on November 01, 2012, 11:16:21 AM
The only reference I can find to a JENS J. AAGAARD A/S AS is to some Danish jewellery company

http://byaagaard.com/uk/contact

Seems odd Atradius would want you to pay them. Perhaps Atradius handles collections for them and has accidentally left their payment information on the invoice.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: jackslad on November 09, 2012, 09:52:29 AM
I have recently received an email from Atradius offering a 75% discount to "settle amicably". I have referred this outfit to the Cardiff Council Trading Standards. In the most recent email Atradius state they are not members of the FSA.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on November 14, 2012, 08:50:15 AM
This gets more and more sketchy.

If Atradius doesn't collect debts (which they confirmed because they aren't licensed to) and they are only collecting for a copyright infringement (although not for themselves because they aren't the copyright holder of exclusive licensee) then who is authorising the 75% discount?

As I see it only Getty could ever authorise the discount. If Atradius haven't been passed the 'debt' then they are in no position to offer a reduction in settlement amount without Getty's consent.

If Getty have authorised this then they'll surely never take anybody to court unless they have evidence of a wilful infringement. Imagine trying to convince a judge that the amount you asked for was fair when you are offering other customers a 75% discount.

Jackslad, it might be worthwhile replying and asking whether it was Getty or Atradius offering the 75% discount.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: jackslad on November 14, 2012, 12:20:07 PM
The "offer" of a 75% discount was in an email from Atradius. I had a long chat with the Cardiff Trading Standards office about Atradius. Trading Standards have been sent all of the emails I have received from Atradius. I have a feeling that that Atradius have been given a list of "prospects" by Getty and if they can get some money from anyone on it, to keep things "amicable" - they will. I will keep the board posted when I hear back from the Trading Standards people.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on November 15, 2012, 06:34:05 AM
Good work Jackslad and thanks for keeping us updated.

Please let us know when Trading Standards reply.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: fedup on January 09, 2013, 08:42:00 AM
I have also received this letter from Attriadus around 18 months after I thought Getty went away.

Quick history: I buy all of my images, but missed one small one by mistake.  Getty demanded a settlement of £1,225 for this image, even though I took it down, apologized and purchased a retrospective license for £30.

Since then I haven't heard from them for over a year.  Then, I got the Christmas email from Atradius.

I think I made a mistake of replying to say that I had a licence, which opened the door to a bombardment of cut-and-paste letters with incorrect dates etc. So far I have responded to tell them to get lost, but I've been bombarded with more harassing and quite unprofessional emails.

They don't seem to be bothered that the amount they are asking for is arbitrary and not at all commensurate with the value of the license. I'm not a repeat offender. I'd be happy to pay a reasonable penalty and put it down to experience, but this really is extortion.

Not sure what the next step is.  Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks for posting progress on here guys.  This really does seem like the worst case of big companies trying to squash the small man.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Mulligan on January 09, 2013, 09:17:08 AM
If I were you at this point, I'd send one email telling them I won't reply to additional emails and if they have anything else to say, to send it by registered postal service. Tell them you want official paper at this point on this matter because you will be sending it to the agency in your country that looks into those who demand money without a legal right to do so.

I forget the name of the agency in the U.K. that polices collection agencies, but you'll find it in one of the threads here on ELI in this U.K. section.

My experience here in the U.S. with Getty Images and its copyright trolling lawyer and collection agent Timothy B. McCormack and his paralegal Ashanti A. Taylor is that these people are nothing but hot air who capitalize on those easily intimidated.
Title: Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived
Post by: Couch_Potato on January 09, 2013, 11:15:44 AM
If you want to do things by the book then you could make them an offer because you have basically admitted to them that you committed copyright infringement (even though it was entirely mistakenly).

I am no lawyer but my understanding of the legal process for civil cases is that before Getty can even launch legal proceedings they must go through the mediation process with you which would involve trying to negotiate a settlement. If it did end up in court (extremely unlikely based on past evidence) and the judge decided that during mediation you had made a good faith offer of settlement that he felt was proper he could decide not to award Getty any costs for litigation.

This would make taking you to court a very high risk strategy for such a small potential reward.

As for Atradius, they can't do anything. They can't chase debts and they can't take you to court for legal proceedings because they don't have the authority. I'd wipe my arse with any of their correspondence.