Why are you on ELI? Why do you keep coming back to ELI?

[Moe Hacken]

. . . that psycho and her stupid poem . . .

I just have to wonder if these idiots ever think about the legacy they will leave behind.  All the dirty laundry and behavior documented on the web and out there to see for generations to come.  What must it be like to be forever known as "that psycho and her stupid poem" ?

Well, one example is to search for the phrase "that psycho and her stupid poem" on Google. This same thread now ranks in the first page (2nd page in Google USA). This thread is only a couple of weeks old and it's already getting top rankings.

ELI certainly has a lot of SEO traction. I like to think it helps a lot more people than we could imagine. It's very easy to find ELI should anyone have the misfortune of having a troll knocking at their door.

[April Brown (AuctionApril)]

Thanks Peeved. Friends R the truth.

[Oscar Michelen]

Great sentiments everyone (though Robert's posting of the Jim Jones clip was my favorite). I keep coming back to ELI because thousands of people are still getting these letters with no end in sight. ELI remains the only source for competent, balanced and thorough information on this and other related issues.  The forums have allowed folks to tell their tales  and receive kudos for original responses as well as advice on how to proceed.  We have all learned about new trolling methods and have expanded our reach to cover so much more than Getty Images.  I love how some who came to learn about the topic have come to be regular, insightful and helpful contributors Robert, Greg, SG, Mulligan, Jerry, Peeved, Lucia, April, Lettered,Moe Hacken, Stinger and the list goes on and on.  I enjoy your contributions and have learned a great deal from what you have found out and posted on the site. Of course, the camaraderie and laughs and occasional cringes are also integral to why I am hopelessly devoted to ELI. I can still remember the first call I got from some guy named Matt in Georgia over four years ago. "Getty sent you a letter asking for what?," I asked.  He emailed me the letters and we were off to the races. It is Matt's genuine passion for standing up against copyright trolling and for believing in the power of information and group strength that is the principal reason I keep coming back to this site. Here endeth the lovefest.           

[Matthew Chan]

Stinger,

Wow, another great detail response. I have some inline responses....

It's funny, but I agree with most everything everyone has said.

• Yes, part of me wants to pay it forward where I can, yet I realize that I can never make the commitment Greg or Robert have.  Although, never is a long time, if Getty pushes a little more, maybe they will turn me into the second coming of Robert and Greg.

It isn't a competition to who can be the "craziest and freakiest" contributor although Robert and Greg certainly rank up high.    Every member contributes in a unique style and make an impact in their own way. I think we can all agree Oscar doesn't post as frequently as the rest of us but his impact and presence is HUGE nevertheless. I don't post as much anymore but my ego demands the grandiose notion that I can still make an impact and difference even if I don't post frequently. Jerry Witt, likewise, has been a long-time anchor and steady presence on ELI. Everyone who has become and ELI Defense Team Member did so voluntarily and one of my "mandates" for team members that is they only contribute as they see appropriate. It must NOT be work for them, it has to be work of passion and belief. If it ever becomes work and burdensome, something has gone off the rails.

• I do enjoy the characters here, but more importantly their different approaches to a common problem.  I miss AuctionApril's posts because she took the fight (albeit a little different fight than mine) to the media in a powerful way.

Yup, I must admit that even I am fascinated by our collective cast of characters. I sometimes feel that ELI Community has become a self-contained online reality show of sorts.

• I, too, am addicted.  When I try to spend less time on ELI, I find it chasing me down through Facebook and forcing me to pay more attention and come back to the forum.

ELI chases you down on Facebook?  I guess ELI forced you to "like" the ELI Facebook page at gunpoint.  *wink, wink *

• I like the way some people try to take programming approaches to keeping Getty out of their lives, while others work the Search Engine Optimization angles to drawing attention to the dark side of what Getty and other Trollers do.  The diversity of approach I learn here captivates me, in a way.

It was never intended that way to see so many different approaches and views but I certainly like the creativity.

• While I don't really want to wrap my life in this dirty trolling business, I feel an obligation to stay connected and help all these committed personalities see this thing through to a successful conclusion.  I realize that my never happen, but I sure wouldn't want to miss it, if it does.

We can certainly dream!

• I feel like my situation is a little bit different than many of the Getty posters here.  Mine was not a single image violation.  My situation was not about not understanding copyright laws.  My company fell for what I believe was either a tacit seeding scheme, or a radical change of corporate direction that resulted in what we did innocently and with Getty's permission, later being construed as copyright theft.  Part of why I hang around is to see if others got caught in the same trap and to see if I can lend assistance to those who might find themselves in a similar situation.

You already help out by making your presence known through your ongoing participation and commentary.

• I certainly feel connected to the passion that the regulars on this site feel for righting an important wrong in this world today.

I agree!

• If there ever is a class action suit or government hearings on the matter or some such thing, I feel like I might learn about that first here.  If I can in any way participate in eradicating this world of the dreaded copyright troll, I will want to be a part of that.

Members of the ELI Defense Team gets contacted on a semi-regular basis by bloggers and members of the smaller press.  Bloggers and small press do read what we post! You would be surprised.  The ripple effect of what each of you contribute continues to resonate daily, weekly, monthly, and now yearly.

Like everyone else's, my list can go on.  But what's most important, is to take this opportunity to sincerely thank the organizers, senior members and contributors to this forum for their efforts and contributions.  THANK YOU!

You are welcome! I also thank the ELI community members simply because without the rest of you, Oscar and I would probably have a much less interesting forum if we were the only ones that posted.

This is one battle that I do not expect us to lose.  But even if we did, I could hold my head up, knowing I was on the right side of the fight, and in the trenches with a quality group of individuals.

There is no question we are on the right side of this fight.
[/list]

[Matthew Chan]

Lettered,

Oscar and I recognize you as one of our earliest ELI Contributors from 2009. Up until then, Oscar and I were pretty much the only guys who had a semi-steady presence on the ELI Forums.  Please do not minimize your impact from those early years.

I know how people might think that the people who provide answers to questions might make a larger impact than those who simply "converse" or engage in "commentary". That isn't necessarily true.  The ELI Forums continue to buzz and hum along BECAUSE of the ongoing conversations, commentary, and dialog.

There are only so many truly "new" items or "dramatic" events that happen every month.  The ongoing daily conversation, "chatter", "buzz, is also VERY important.

Your early role as commenter allowed others to follow you. You should remember that the posts you made in 2009 still exist and they are very much in the Google search and ELI Forum search engines!

I also appreciate your thought of the historical element. I think you will find that EVERY ELI community member including myself and Oscar has grown and evolved over the years.  It is entirely possible to go back to 2008 to read what we said and our positions back then and compare them to now.

When I think back to ELI of 2008-2009 and compare it to ELI of 2012, it really is mind-blowing all the changes and growth we have experienced.

Lettered, you are very much part of our history and I ask you to NOT minimize your contributions over the years.  Oscar and I do recognize you from the early days as we do now.

I continue to invite and solicit crazy new ideas ELI can try out.  So much of what you see throughout the ELI website and ELI forums all started out with some crazy idea mentioned by someone which I took and ran with.

I got the letter quite some time ago.  I think it was not long after Matthew had just started the ELI site.  Even though it was early on, the site gave me confidence that
1) I had solid legal ground to not pay the exhorbitant fees asked for
2) I was on solid ethical and moral ground to not pay the exhorbitant fees

As the web-site grew I kept checking in and making comments and asking questions here and there.  The community support of others doing the exact same thing let me know I was on the right track.

So I continue to check in from time to time as a small way to "pay it forward".  By themselves, my comments here are squat . . . I know that.  But the collective effect of all of our comments together combined go a long way in giving the two points I mentioned above to people who find themselves in this situation. 

And that's just the contribution of the "small time" commenters here like me.  Of course the main support is coming from the elite few (not me) that pour hours into research and commentary here.

The whole thing's kinda got a cool historical element to it as well.  Its only relatively recently that the internet has been around as a tool to fight these types of injustices.   It feels good to be a part of it even if it is in a small way

Kudos to Matt and Oscar for being pioneers in this type of effort.

[meontheweb]

Why does the ELI Community even exist and why do ELI Community members hang arouned?  Why do the ELI "regulars" stay regulars?  Are you here because you want the latest news and information?  Are you addicted/do you enjoy the drama that comes up now and again?  Are you here because you are among friends?  Are you here because you feel passionately about the cause that ELI represents? Are you here because you feel you make a difference?

What is it about ELI that keeps many of you coming back?  By rights, most of you no longer need ELI's help or services and yet many of you do come back.

A lot of GREAT information; peace of mind when you get the letter and subsequent letters and/or e-mails and some place to vent frustrations where you don't get pounced on since everyone has been or is in the same boat.  Oh yah - A LOT of hand holding by those more knowledgable who are willing to share and guide you.

Honestly the only time I've ever found a community like this is waaaaay back in the old BBS days when I'd spend hours on Citadels (if you know the terms - you're an oldie like me [I'm not a computer geek]) and with other SYSOPS trying to figure stuff out.  We were all learning and it was all pretty new and everyone helped everyone whether they were in the same city, country or anywhere else in the world.

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

Why does the ELI Community even exist and why do ELI Community members hang arouned?  Why do the ELI "regulars" stay regulars?  Are you here because you want the latest news and information?  Are you addicted/do you enjoy the drama that comes up now and again?  Are you here because you are among friends?  Are you here because you feel passionately about the cause that ELI represents? Are you here because you feel you make a difference?

What is it about ELI that keeps many of you coming back?  By rights, most of you no longer need ELI's help or services and yet many of you do come back.

A lot of GREAT information; peace of mind when you get the letter and subsequent letters and/or e-mails and some place to vent frustrations where you don't get pounced on since everyone has been or is in the same boat.  Oh yah - A LOT of hand holding by those more knowledgable who are willing to share and guide you.

Honestly the only time I've ever found a community like this is waaaaay back in the old BBS days when I'd spend hours on Citadels (if you know the terms - you're an oldie like me [I'm not a computer geek]) and with other SYSOPS trying to figure stuff out.  We were all learning and it was all pretty new and everyone helped everyone whether they were in the same city, country or anywhere else in the world.

Don't know if i'm an oldie but I was a sysop for a 6 node BBS back in the day...I can hear those old 14.4 modems screeching right now!!..I still see references of it online now and then via fidonet..."The Dirty Diaper BBS"..thanx for the flashback!

[Greg Troy (KeepFighting)]

Wow, that brings back a lot of memories! I was the SysOp of a two node BBS called The Wonder Board BBS as I was a tile setter at the time and wonder board is a cement board put down that tile is installed on.

Just curious what BBS software you ran? Was it PCBoard?  I ran GTBBS software on a single computer running DesqView (multitasking software). Next time we talk on the phone will have to talk about our SysOp days

Don't know if i'm an oldie but I was a sysop for a 6 node BBS back in the day...I can hear those old 14.4 modems screeching right now!!..I still see references of it online now and then via fidonet..."The Dirty Diaper BBS"..thanx for the flashback!

[Mulligan]

This is a trip down memory lane. I ran GBBS on my Apple IIc for several years back in the day.

And before I got into being a sysop, I was surfing other BBSes with a 300-baud modem. Remember those days? When you'd watch individual letters turning into words on your screen as they streamed (ha!) into your computer.

[Lettered]

Matt,  I appreciate those thoughts ... and I appreciate all you do and have done.  Many thanks!

Lettered,

Oscar and I recognize you as one of our earliest ELI Contributors from 2009. Up until then, Oscar and I were pretty much the only guys who had a semi-steady presence on the ELI Forums.  Please do not minimize your impact from those early years.

I know how people might think that the people who provide answers to questions might make a larger impact than those who simply "converse" or engage in "commentary". That isn't necessarily true.  The ELI Forums continue to buzz and hum along BECAUSE of the ongoing conversations, commentary, and dialog.

There are only so many truly "new" items or "dramatic" events that happen every month.  The ongoing daily conversation, "chatter", "buzz, is also VERY important.

Your early role as commenter allowed others to follow you. You should remember that the posts you made in 2009 still exist and they are very much in the Google search and ELI Forum search engines!

I also appreciate your thought of the historical element. I think you will find that EVERY ELI community member including myself and Oscar has grown and evolved over the years.  It is entirely possible to go back to 2008 to read what we said and our positions back then and compare them to now.

When I think back to ELI of 2008-2009 and compare it to ELI of 2012, it really is mind-blowing all the changes and growth we have experienced.

Lettered, you are very much part of our history and I ask you to NOT minimize your contributions over the years.  Oscar and I do recognize you from the early days as we do now.

I continue to invite and solicit crazy new ideas ELI can try out.  So much of what you see throughout the ELI website and ELI forums all started out with some crazy idea mentioned by someone which I took and ran with.

I got the letter quite some time ago.  I think it was not long after Matthew had just started the ELI site.  Even though it was early on, the site gave me confidence that
1) I had solid legal ground to not pay the exhorbitant fees asked for
2) I was on solid ethical and moral ground to not pay the exhorbitant fees

As the web-site grew I kept checking in and making comments and asking questions here and there.  The community support of others doing the exact same thing let me know I was on the right track.

So I continue to check in from time to time as a small way to "pay it forward".  By themselves, my comments here are squat . . . I know that.  But the collective effect of all of our comments together combined go a long way in giving the two points I mentioned above to people who find themselves in this situation. 

And that's just the contribution of the "small time" commenters here like me.  Of course the main support is coming from the elite few (not me) that pour hours into research and commentary here.

The whole thing's kinda got a cool historical element to it as well.  Its only relatively recently that the internet has been around as a tool to fight these types of injustices.   It feels good to be a part of it even if it is in a small way

Kudos to Matt and Oscar for being pioneers in this type of effort.

[Lettered]

Oscar, I can't say enough about how much I appreciate what you and Matt have done here.  I have the utmost respect for all that you are doing and have already done.  Thanks!

Stinger,

Wow, another great detail response. I have some inline responses....

It's funny, but I agree with most everything everyone has said.

• Yes, part of me wants to pay it forward where I can, yet I realize that I can never make the commitment Greg or Robert have.  Although, never is a long time, if Getty pushes a little more, maybe they will turn me into the second coming of Robert and Greg.

It isn't a competition to who can be the "craziest and freakiest" contributor although Robert and Greg certainly rank up high.    Every member contributes in a unique style and make an impact in their own way. I think we can all agree Oscar doesn't post as frequently as the rest of us but his impact and presence is HUGE nevertheless. I don't post as much anymore but my ego demands the grandiose notion that I can still make an impact and difference even if I don't post frequently. Jerry Witt, likewise, has been a long-time anchor and steady presence on ELI. Everyone who has become and ELI Defense Team Member did so voluntarily and one of my "mandates" for team members that is they only contribute as they see appropriate. It must NOT be work for them, it has to be work of passion and belief. If it ever becomes work and burdensome, something has gone off the rails.

• I do enjoy the characters here, but more importantly their different approaches to a common problem.  I miss AuctionApril's posts because she took the fight (albeit a little different fight than mine) to the media in a powerful way.

Yup, I must admit that even I am fascinated by our collective cast of characters. I sometimes feel that ELI Community has become a self-contained online reality show of sorts.

• I, too, am addicted.  When I try to spend less time on ELI, I find it chasing me down through Facebook and forcing me to pay more attention and come back to the forum.

ELI chases you down on Facebook?  I guess ELI forced you to "like" the ELI Facebook page at gunpoint.  *wink, wink *

• I like the way some people try to take programming approaches to keeping Getty out of their lives, while others work the Search Engine Optimization angles to drawing attention to the dark side of what Getty and other Trollers do.  The diversity of approach I learn here captivates me, in a way.

It was never intended that way to see so many different approaches and views but I certainly like the creativity.

• While I don't really want to wrap my life in this dirty trolling business, I feel an obligation to stay connected and help all these committed personalities see this thing through to a successful conclusion.  I realize that my never happen, but I sure wouldn't want to miss it, if it does.

We can certainly dream!

• I feel like my situation is a little bit different than many of the Getty posters here.  Mine was not a single image violation.  My situation was not about not understanding copyright laws.  My company fell for what I believe was either a tacit seeding scheme, or a radical change of corporate direction that resulted in what we did innocently and with Getty's permission, later being construed as copyright theft.  Part of why I hang around is to see if others got caught in the same trap and to see if I can lend assistance to those who might find themselves in a similar situation.

You already help out by making your presence known through your ongoing participation and commentary.

• I certainly feel connected to the passion that the regulars on this site feel for righting an important wrong in this world today.

I agree!

• If there ever is a class action suit or government hearings on the matter or some such thing, I feel like I might learn about that first here.  If I can in any way participate in eradicating this world of the dreaded copyright troll, I will want to be a part of that.

Members of the ELI Defense Team gets contacted on a semi-regular basis by bloggers and members of the smaller press.  Bloggers and small press do read what we post! You would be surprised.  The ripple effect of what each of you contribute continues to resonate daily, weekly, monthly, and now yearly.

Like everyone else's, my list can go on.  But what's most important, is to take this opportunity to sincerely thank the organizers, senior members and contributors to this forum for their efforts and contributions.  THANK YOU!

You are welcome! I also thank the ELI community members simply because without the rest of you, Oscar and I would probably have a much less interesting forum if we were the only ones that posted.

This is one battle that I do not expect us to lose.  But even if we did, I could hold my head up, knowing I was on the right side of the fight, and in the trenches with a quality group of individuals.

There is no question we are on the right side of this fight.
[/list]

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

Wow, that brings back a lot of memories! I was the SysOp of a two node BBS called The Wonder Board BBS as I was a tile setter at the time and wonder board is a cement board put down that tile is installed on.

Just curious what BBS software you ran? Was it PCBoard?  I ran GTBBS software on a single computer running DesqView (multitasking software). Next time we talk on the phone will have to talk about our SysOp days

Don't know if i'm an oldie but I was a sysop for a 6 node BBS back in the day...I can hear those old 14.4 modems screeching right now!!..I still see references of it online now and then via fidonet..."The Dirty Diaper BBS"..thanx for the flashback!

I ran syncronet and VBS, there was another on I can't remember at the moment...I also remember this was the start of my programming / coding career, started with learning turbo pascal and soaked it up like a sponge...can't remember any of it now..

[Oscar Michelen]

You guys are spinning into the depths of geekdom with this conversation! Sysop? Citadel? WTF?  I do recall playing Pong on Atari though if that counts as stroll down this memory lane.