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Author Topic: Australian Victim  (Read 15684 times)

Mark

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Australian Victim
« on: October 21, 2008, 04:29:10 AM »
Hi,

I am from Australia and I would like to share my story so other Australians and other victims from the US and the UK may also refer to it.

The image Getty got me for was included in a template that my hosting provider gave to its customers about 3 yrs ago. Then a couple of weeks ago, I got the letter from Getty asking for $1320. I took the image out of my site immediately. It was already the last day before the due date the payment was due. I did not have much time to research it. At first I thought it was one of those Nigerian Internet scams.

By the time, I realised that it wasn't one of those, I sourly paid the $1320 Australian Dollars just before the day finished just to avoid it growing bigger. I emailed Getty to tell them my payment details but I told them I was still looking into it.

My reaction :

What I do not like about Getty's action is that, they do not have the decency to say, "Hey that is our image and we’ll give you a few days to take it down". They assume that you are a crook right from the start. They do not consider that perhaps you have just as much desire to do business honestly.

Getty’s move is just pay us $1300 in 21 days or we’ll advance it to the next legal stage.

Just because they have the financial backing to argue it out in court over its victims, most of which are just part-timers or people who are just getting started in doing something for themselves, they bully everyone else. Just because they can, it does not mean that they should.

They say they are doing it for their photographers but how do we know that it is not their photographers who have lost track of what agreements they have made with whom and when? The image in particular was from a template-making company who then had an agreement with the hosting company, who then gave them to their customers.

I hear about some recipients of Getty letters having hired web designers from India. I believe that these Indian web designers were not necessarily being intentionally dishonest. They might have rightfully licensed the templates from whom they thought were a legal source.

Anyway, advising them that I paid them, I told them about how I felt.:

I am still checking with my webhosting company who currently supplied me with the website template that included the photograph in question. They might be able to confirm at a later date that I had legal authority over the image.
 
I believe that you are conducting yourselves unethicaly. You automatically assume that people intentionally used your images maliciously. In my case, it came with a template that my webhosting service provided for its customers.
 
Demanding payment, threatening people with legal action, without first giving them the benefit of the doubt, even with, at least the opportunity to remove the image before robbing them off their money is abusing your power. It is blatant profiteering.
 
It is almost as if you have intentionally leaked out your images out there, making it easy for people to use them, including people who have no intention in breaking the law, only for you to send out your legal team, a couple of years down the track, to profit from it. Absolutely brilliant, calculating and cold.


=================

In their letter, they asked that if I got the image from a 3rd party, I should give them the name and the contact person of that company/person.  

The next day, I researched this issue a little more. Realising that the issue was not so clear cut, I called my bank to retract my payment.

I contacted my webhosting provider letting them know what has happened. They said they held licenses for the templates and the images that came with it from a company called GarageMoney.Com. They were happy for me to give their contact details to Getty. Getty asked me that they will not contact my webhosting provider. Rather, I should tell my webhosting provider to contact them. So, I did.

My webhosting provider contacted Getty and confirmed that I had the legal right to use the image because my hosting provider gave them to me.

Getty came back to me, and my webhosting provider, a few days later. They said the image was not licensed to GarageMoney.Com nor my webhosting provider. Getty is still after me. Getty suggested that I recoup the money from my webhosting provider since I am the victim here. Getty offered me a discount ($990) on their demand which will expire in a week to avoid further escalation. I find this such a bizarre state of affairs. I feel like schoolboy being bullied and my assailant tells me he is giving me a special offer of receiving 9 punches instead of 13 and I should accept it before it will escalate to more punches!

I am still wondering what I should do. If anybody has suggestions, please post it on this website or contact me at [email protected].

I was thinking of creating a separate website similar to Matthew Chan's, but focussing on the Australian perspective, however, I do not know how many Australian victims are there who would participate. Besides, I believe Matthew and Oscar are doing a great job here and it might be better to keep all the information in one website so that it does not get all fragmented. I think it is best to keep them all concentrated. I encourage everybody to be active here in sharing knowledge and information because I do see this us a case of the big corporations taking advantage of their size to trample the rights of small entrepreneurs who have all the intentions of doing business ethically and correctly. We have to rely on each other to ensure that it does not happen.

I would like to thank Matthew Chan and Oscar Michelen for doing what they do. Know that your sacrifices are being noticed and appreciated by the many, like me, who visit this website.

Matthew Chan

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2008, 04:39:09 AM »
Hello,

As most people know, Oscar and I are based in the U.S.  We have done our best to assist those outside of the U.S.  However, we do need assistance from knowledgeable people in the U.K., Australia, and Canada.

We can provide the web page space as necessary.  Both Oscar and I agree to assist our International counterparts but we do need solid commentary or good documentation.  The problem is most people want to stay anonymous.  We can respect that but we would like others to directly email us some quality information.

We have a lot of great information being sent in behind-the-scenes but still need more.  Send us some good web links such as legal or copyright sites so we can post them.  We are gathering information and resources to start up an International page.

Matthew
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Mark

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 04:49:42 AM »
Hi Matthew,

Thanks for your response. I believe that the frontline is in the US anyway. What happens in the US would most likely act as a precedent for most other countries. As a person from Australia, being informed of what is happening there gives me enough information. It should be left to the rest of us who can, post links, information and so on. This forum, alone, is of great help. Thanks again.

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 01:39:50 PM »
Dear Mark:

I have received numerous contacts from Australian recipients of Getty letters and they have been reaching me through and on occasion posting on this website. Matt and I would welcome additional posts from Australia as the Getty program there appears to be growing. I think you should continue to assert that the use was either licensed or at worst "an innocnet infringement" which would gretly reduce any damages that they would be permitted to receive.  One of the issues we have raised with Getty here in the States is that how can Getty be so sure that  its photographers have not licensed the use of the image elesewhere - such as on a CD. Getty makes no effort to ascertain this.  Thanks for a very informative post.

mudpuppy

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2008, 12:59:07 PM »
Hello All,

Oscar Michelen raises a very valid point when stating:

 "One of the issues we have raised with Getty here in the States is that how can Getty be so sure that its photographers have not licensed the use of the image elesewhere - such as on a CD. Getty makes no effort to ascertain this."

Just for fun.... I  visited istockphoto.com (which is owned by Getty as of 2006 - see their press and privacy section of the istockphoto website), dreamstime.com AND sxc.hu (Stock. XCHNG) and randomly selected an image - and guess what - the EXACT same image by the EXACT same photographer is avialable for download on all THREE sites. This supports EXACTLY what Oscar is questioning!

Now, I know istockphoto.com is a "Getty company", however Dreamstime and Stock.XCHNG "appear" to be "Getty free", or at least I saw no obvious mention of being a subsidiary/partner on either site. Bearing THAT in mind... could Getty's robot that scours the internet not detect a legitimately obtained image from say Dreamstime or Stock.XCHNG, yet Getty claim it is theirs because they are selling the same, identical image? If that would be the case then WHO has WHAT rights to WHAT?

MP

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2008, 12:25:05 PM »
Great job mudpuppy. The issue would then become how does Getty know that the photographer didn't allow it to be on those sites.  These are precisely the issues we have been asking them to clarify. They have now admitted - after being pressed on the issue -  that they did not register the images and therefore are NOT seeking statutory damages so maybe one day soon they will be forced to admit that they cannot guarantee the exclusivity of the image and this campaign can end.

Mark

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 06:37:52 AM »
Does anybody know whether there is a website where we can verify whether an image is registered and when?

mudpuppy

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 09:02:59 AM »
Mark,

For US copyright registration you can check: http://www.copyright.gov/    Go to Search Copyright Records -> Registration and Documents. Then do a thorough search. You can search by photographer, Getty Images number, title or descritption of image, etc.

Beyond that - I'm not aware of any other way.

There is another post on this in this forum: "New Info on Getty".....  with someone's experience using the US Copyright site.

MP

Mark

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2008, 05:03:42 PM »
Thanks for that link mudpuppy. I would guess that this is an excellent tool to determine what Getty can claim for, and prove. I could not find the image that Getty claims to be theirs... I'll continue searching.

mudpuppy

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2008, 11:24:24 AM »
Mark,

You are most welcome. And I would say that is good news that you didn't find anything registered there. Do keep the forum posted of any further findings. All information is helpful...

MP

Mark

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2011, 05:27:10 AM »
It had been 3 years since I last spoke to everyone here because since then Getty has not contacted me. Yesterday, however, they got back to me. So I was glad that this website is still here and I appreciate Matthew and Oscar for their efforts thus far and in keeping the site alive.

Getty hired a new law firm, but the letter was similar. They did not even bother to update their facts. The letter still insisted that I take off the image from my site, even though I deleted it 3 years ago when I first got their first mail. To me this might be an indication that my case was placed in some sort of a 'too-hard' basket and now, it was passed on to another bunch of people who is now just following up on unclosed cases.

Fortunately, I am generally an organised person and I had no problems finding full records of my correspondence with them so I did not have to try and remember the facts and the details. I immediately summarised what had happened since my last contact with them and asked that they close the case. If they cannot, then I asked that they give me an Ombudsman, or an appropriate independent body that regulates their industry to whom I should make a complaint.

So the take-home message is:

1. Just because you haven't heard from Getty after 2 years, it does not mean they had enough of harrassing you.
2. Keep all correspondence with them so you do not umm and err.
3. Fellow Australian victims, unite! Let's try to get the attention of independent regulators, watchdogs and consumer rights protection agencies to help us here. Let's start thinking towards a long-term massive lawsuit to put some sort of injunction on Getty from harrassing us in the future. No one needs the unnecessary stress and worry. I am considering getting the attention of the media. Anyone want to join me? The more the merrier!!!

Contact me at evo.lutionary (at) yahoo (dot) com.

Cheers!

Mark
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 05:29:13 AM by Mark »

SoylentGreen

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2011, 11:04:21 AM »
Three years is quite a long time.
I don't know anything about the Australian court system.
However, after three years, I suspect that any option of 'court' has run out or is running out.
Maybe Getty's just phishing?

S.G.


Mark

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2011, 08:45:25 AM »
Yes I know, it was surprising to hear from them again. Although here in Australia, I believe all businesses must keep business records up to 7 years. Therefore, I am guessing because of this, one can still sue and be sued for anything within the last 7 years since evidence (eg. paper trail) can still acquired and produced.

So perhaps, if I do manage to brush them off this time around, I still have another 4-5 years in which to wait for their next approach. That's why I'm more keen towards getting them to stop this now so I do not have to deal with it again in the future.

SoylentGreen

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2011, 11:19:38 AM »
The 7-year limit probably refers to documentation for tax purposes.

Normally, the time limit is according to your local laws.
Many US states have a 4-year limit to bring a civil suit to court, for example.
But, it varies.  Check your local statutes.

If a plaintiff takes a long time to file suit, it can sometimes weaken their case.
A plaintiff can look 'negligent' in some situations if they didn't call attention to a situation in a reasonable time frame.

S.G.


Mark

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Re: Australian Victim
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2011, 01:36:48 AM »
Thank you S.G., you certainly know your legal stuff. I'll definitely dig around and will report here what I find out.

 

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