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Author Topic: Letter from Getty on a screenshot  (Read 7598 times)

domainer22

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Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« on: July 02, 2012, 03:28:20 PM »
Hello All:
this is a cool board..Ive been in the internet biz for 12 years now and it saddens me to see all these copyright trolls wasting our time and money..this website is a great idea.....Anyways, I just received a getty image demand letter..basically, they want to bang me for possibly using an one of their images.  However, my page at the time (which was changed months ago), was a landing page promoting various dating sites.  I was using linking codes that would pay me as an affiliate if and when someone joined the dating sites that i promoted. The page had a screenshot of each specific dating site's front page on the left side and description of the site and the benefits to  joining the site, costs, ect...Well, one of the dating site's front page that I screencapped must have had a getty image licensed to them and now getty has their hands out asking for 1K for the use of this pic .
I would really appreciate any support in making this go away... 
Best regards,
Domainer22

SoylentGreen

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2012, 03:36:31 PM »
This isn't an infringement, if the image was actually hosted by a third party.
Getty can't do much about it.

See:
http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/just-recieved-a-getty-letter-today/

S.G.


domainer22

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2012, 10:43:16 AM »
thanks for the reply S.G.  I will have to check that out, not sure if the screenshot was taken directly from the affiliate program and hosted by us or through an ad network..if the image was hosted on our page, then what do you suggest?

SoylentGreen

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2012, 11:08:22 AM »
If the ad was actually hosted on your site, don't admit any wrongdoing.
But do ask for proof of their copyright ownership of the image.
If they refuse to provide any proof (which means that they don't own it), then you're basically off the hook on this.

S.G.


Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2012, 08:36:29 PM »
I don't ever remember while reading through the forums that Getty has ever actually sent anybody proof. I think their standard line that they reply to you with is that they will provide proof only during discovery, which is their way of trying to frighten you into paying by saying We'll show you proof when we sue you and it's too late.  Well I say, Getty v. Advernet where they won by default and they got nothing for the 35 images that they sued over because not one of them would hold up in court.

I also don't even think they know if the paperwork is done correctly for any image that they have. I remember Robert's post of the letter sent to him via PM that was from Getty copyright specialist Nancy Monson which said:

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Copyright exists the moment a photograph is created and copyright registration is not a requirement of copyright ownership. Getty Images does not own the image. Getty Images has contracts with its contributing photographers who are the copyright holders and owners of the images. The contributor agreement contains representations and warranties that the contributor is the sole copyright owner. Consequently, Getty Images does not require contributors to provide Getty Images with certificates of registration and leaves the option of copyright registration to the individual photographer. Due to confidentiality concerns, Getty Images does not provide copies of our contributor contracts or copyright registration at this time.

But I'm with you on this SG, and that is basically what I have told my Getty specialist that until he produces proof that they own rights to this image we have nothing further to discuss.

If the ad was actually hosted on your site, don't admit any wrongdoing.
But do ask for proof of their copyright ownership of the image.
If they refuse to provide any proof (which means that they don't own it), then you're basically off the hook on this. S.G.

Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

SoylentGreen

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2012, 09:05:19 PM »
I agree with you 100 percent, Greg.

My reasoning is that one can give the alleged copyright holder a chance to prove the claim.
If they don't (and Getty never has to my recollection), then you have good cause to ignore them.

Of course, a statement of "we don't have to prove anything" is an outright lie, and it simply means that they're pulling a scam.

S.G.


Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2012, 12:13:02 AM »
Yeah, that's true SG they never have and they never will because they can't. The only time that my special Getty friend Douglas Bieker ever address the subject he told me to go to the Getty website and enter the image number and view the image and that should be all the proof that I need. I got a really good chuckle out of that.

I run a remodeling/handyman business and for the most part my customers know what they will pay in advance of any work being done, however there are times were unexpected issues arise and I must do extra work to ensure the job is done correctly. I could never imagine how a customer would react or how long I would stay in business if when asked to justify the additional expense and how I arrived at the new number if I replied to my customer I will only reveal this information to you through the process of discovery (when I sue you), now you need to pay me.

I agree with you 100 percent, Greg.

My reasoning is that one can give the alleged copyright holder a chance to prove the claim.
If they don't (and Getty never has to my recollection), then you have good cause to ignore them.

Of course, a statement of "we don't have to prove anything" is an outright lie, and it simply means that they're pulling a scam.

S.G.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

Moe Hacken

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2012, 10:01:56 AM »
Getty can't even guarantee that they have the right to license an image — unless you PAY for the guarantee:

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Image Guarantee (TM)

Not every image comes with amodel or property release. Sometimes, with certain non-released imagery or footage, it’s simply not possible to find or identify a rights holder, if one even exists. So clearance just isn’t an option.

Normally, that would leave you legally unprotected – and put your ideal image out of reach. But it doesn’t have to be thatway. Based on our research,we’re often able to give you an image guarantee. Getty Images Image Guarantee services provides you with an extra layer of protection by indemnifying you against any model or property claims. For a fee based on your expected usage, Getty Images covers you completely in the event a third party comes forward tomake a claim.

Our Image Guarantee service not only protects you from liability, it dramatically expands your creative palette by broadening the range of imagery you can put to use for a whole host of commercial and promotional campaigns.

Source: http://www.gettyimages.com/images/marketing/rightsclearance/RnC.en-us.pdf

Yet they expect you to send them a check because some wanker with a law degree sends you a letter making fatuous claims accusing you of being an image thief.

Don't buy it. They know what proof they would have to show a judge. That's exactly what you should require.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 10:04:22 AM by Moe Hacken »
I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2012, 03:45:50 PM »
Moe , that is actually pretty amazing but at the same time not too surprising. What we have here is Getty speaking out of both sides of their mouth, on one hand they're saying that some of the images that they have they don't even know who the copyright holder is or if the copyright even exists yet in email that Robert posted from Getty copyright compliance specialist Nancy Monson she states the following:

“Copyright exists the moment a photograph is created and copyright registration is not a requirement of copyright ownership.”

So when it comes to images that they acquire, they claim that copyright may not even exist but when it comes to an image that is been allegedly infringed upon then copyright exists from the moment the photograph is created with or without registration. Lets go back to that first part, Getty Googles up an image and decide they like it, can't figure out who owns it and then says that they cannot locate the owner and are not aware if the copyright even exists on the image but we will lease it to you for X amount of dollars. Can you say willful infringement? They are taking someone else's image whose copyright according Ms. Monson existed from the moment that the photograph was created and they are now leasing it for profit. Wow, just wow.

Thanks again for posting that image guarantee Moe, I'm going to print this out and add this to my Getty file which is growing extremely thick of late. I almost wish Getty was stupid enough to sue me as I have collected enough stuff to make them answer for in a countersuit that it would give them a permanent butt pucker that would last till the next millennium.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

Moe Hacken

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2012, 07:34:03 PM »
Nancy Monson is technically correct, Greg, but they do talk out of both sides of their mouth whenever it's convenient.

For example, in order to be eligible for statutory damages and other goodies, you must register the image with the copyright office within a certain time period. Otherwise, you can still enforce the copyright as the owner, but are not going to be eligible to collect the ridiculous sums Getty generally claims they're entitled to.

When they don't bother to tell you the copyright registration information and yet claim they can nail you for statutory damages and attorney's fees, they're totally talking out of both sides of their mouth.

I suspect the Getty guarantee partly addresses the liability involved with "orphaned works". S.G. and I were commenting about proposed legislation to address this issue. At the risk of being redundant, I'll quote the post here:

There is some interesting legislation being proposed for a category of works named "orphan works". Orphan works are works for which the owner is very difficult or impossible to find. The idea is that some great works are locked up in a vault and not being shared because people don't want to expose themselves to being sued if the copyright owner suddenly turns up and makes a claim. The legislation is intended to free up stuff like archival film, paintings, photographs, books and other types of work that can be copyrighted.

When I was reading the proposed legislation, it seemed to me that it would provide some balance in cases such as the HAN/VKT baitpaper images we've discussed at length. The images are being offered for free on thousands of websites, so even an honest and diligent search for a copyright owner would be incredibly difficult. VKT's bulk registrations with the Copyright Office are little or no help. A person caught using one of his images could argue that they did a reasonably diligent search for an owner and found nothing except for a mountain of evidence suggesting that the image was in the public domain. VKT would be entitled to the following:

Quote
...we recommended a framework whereby a legitimate orphan works owner who resurfaces may bring an action for “reasonable compensation” against a qualifying user. A user does not qualify for the benefits of orphan works legislation unless he first conducts a good faith, reasonably diligent (but unsuccessful) search for the copyright owner. As defined in our Report, reasonable compensation should be the amount “a reasonable willing buyer and reasonable willing seller in the positions of the owner and user would have agreed to at the time the use commenced.”2 Such a recovery is fair because it approximates the true market value of the work. It allows a copyright owner to present evidence related to the market value of his work and, at the same time, allows the copyright user to more precisely gauge his exposure to liability. Statutory damages would not apply to use of an orphan work. (The Office agrees with copyright owners who have since suggested that an award of attorney's fees might make sense in certain instances where an orphan work user acts in bad faith.)

Source: http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat031308.html

This is an example of how legislators are actually trying to address some of the issues that are currently making a mess out of copyright law in the digital age, where reproduction and publishing are nearly instantaneous and there is a huge demand for content. Copyright owners must be protected, but not at the expense of fairness or worse yet, people's civil rights.

As S.G. correctly points out, this is PROPOSED legislation. For now it's still a trolling paradise out there.
I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees

domainer22

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2012, 12:25:49 PM »
thanks for the reply's...i have a good plan now!

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Letter from Getty on a screenshot
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 01:27:49 PM »
Glad to hear it and please keep us posted as to your progress :)
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

 

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