Got a letter, now what???

[meontheweb]

I just rec'd a letter from Getty Images (dated Aug 9, 2012) - only rec'd it today because I checked my mail only today.

So first thing was panic, and did I ever - I think I had palpitations; then of course was sweating buckets (still am); and the constant shaking every time I just look at the letter.  Finally I told my wife, who also panicked but said pay it and lets get it over with - problem is that it's $1,275.00 CDN all from a website that was set-up as a hobby that I thought I might make a few $$ from to pay for hosting/domain name.

Then I hit Google and found this site - a lot of information, and am reading but "they" don't give you much time.

So onto my situation - I downloaded/found several images on the web and put them together as a collage.  Of course nothing is identified as being copyright and had it been known I would not have used the one single image in the header.  Image was that of a dog.  What a mistake, and something I will NEVER do ever, ever again.

First thing was to take the header down, delete all copies off the web server and to be safe shuttered the site so that I can go through all the images to ensure that nothing is copyrighted -- don't know how the hell to do that, so I'll probably just delete all the images to be safe or delete the content and start over.

Next up - how to fight them?  I saw several other posts - but "they" don't give you much time to educate yourself.

I probably will make use of the $50.00 phone call, if only to help calm the nerves and find out what my next step is.

Found ELI from another site (http://www.seotrainingsw.com/2011/09/getty-images-demand-letter/).



Will start reading the blog and viewing the videos to at least become familiar with all the lingo...

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

the time limit they toss at you is only a scare tactic, take a breath, relax, and contrary to what your wife says, don't pay it. You have time, you have options.for a quick education the phone support call is your best option, otherwise get reading..but more importantly don't stress out over this, your certainly not alone!

[meontheweb]

Hi Rob - thanks for the note!  I really don't want to pay.  Though I am going to read and watch the videos, I've send Matt $50.00 plus the scans of the documents.  I'm sure it will be the best $50.00 I've ever spent.

Thanks,

Mo

[Greg Troy (KeepFighting)]

Robert is absolutely correct, the time limit is an artificial deadline designed to scare you and think you have to act in pay before you have a chance to research and find out the full situation. You must do what you think is best for you but I would not pay Getty a penny. I assure you the situation is nowhere near as dire as Getty makes it sound. You have a couple of options available to you the first as you and Robert both mentioned is the Eli support phone call with Matthew. This is a good option if you do not care to take the time to go through the forums as Matthew can bring you up to speed very quickly. Your other option is to read the forums and handle Getty yourself. The forums contain pretty much all the information you will need to deal with your situation and will walk you through the process of what to expect.

Welcome to the forums and please let us know what you decide to do and keep us posted with your situation.

[meontheweb]

Hi Greg,

Thanks for the note - definitely am reading, but a bit of 'hand holding' through the process will certainly help.  Definatley did not need the stress right now... 

Mo

[stinger]

If you haven't already been here, this is a good starting point:  http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/how-to-stop-gettys-employees-harassment/?topicseen

But the more educated you get, the more comfortable you will be with what you ultimately decide to do.  I agree with most - don't pay them unless they can prove that the images are properly registered and theirs to manage and they can show what the value of the images is.

So far, my experience is they can't do either.

[meontheweb]

Hi Stinger,

Thanks - will be doing a lot more reading over the next few days.

I also just got off the phone with Matthew (thanks for the call, Matt) and feel a whole lot better.  I'm sure I could have found all the information here (he even said as much) but nice getting the reassurance.

Also should let everyone know that I am in Canada.

I definately plan on fighting this - $1,275.00+ represents a new laptop for my son or a heckuv a lot of other stuff.

I plan on doing more research here and on the web and will fight them and see what happens.  Will definately post my experiences with everyone here, and if there are other Canadians on the forum hopefully it will help them with their fight.

[meontheweb]

After my chat with Matthew who suggested that the first step is to know what you are being charged for. 

His suggestion was doing research to find similar images on the internet at other stock photo sites to know the true value of those images.  As Matt explained (paraphrased) "all you got was an invoice - it's up to you to decide if you're just going to pay it blindly or find out what you are paying for" and of course "you could get an invoice for anything, will you just pay it?".

So I've been searching stock photo sites like Dreamstime, 123rf and Shutterstock (there are dozens out there) for similar images.

Clearly gettyimages is extorting money! 

The image that I've been accused of can be purchased for as little as $11.06 and so far the most expensive I have found is $19.00.  All these sites allow for the image purchased to be used online for as long as you want.  You pay more if you intend to resell the final product that is developed using their images.

Slowly gaining confidence that I'll be able to tackle these folks.

[meontheweb]

For those who find this site and are Canadian, I found this rather old post which provides this information:

I have spoken to David Fewer, Counsel at the wonderful CIPPIC clinic at the University of Ottawa, who has agreed to keep track of these demands from Getty Images and to consider CIPPIC’s possible involvement. He can be reached at 613-562-5800 ext. 2558. His e-mail is:

[email protected]

All rights holders are certainly entitled to enforce their legitimate rights in a legitimate way. But they should not be permitted to do so in a manner that is abusive and/or to misuse these rights. This is Canada and such behaviour is likely to prove most unwelcome in Canadian courts, especially after the signal sent by Justice Bastarache.

Hope I'm not breaking any rules by noting the URL of the site:

*** URL DELETED ***

TAGS so Canadians who get the letter, can become more informed

gettyimages letter canada
getty images letter canadian
settlement demand gettyimages canadian

NOTE: I have e-mailed Mr. Fewer and CIPPIC (http://www.cippic.ca) and will post the e-mail and subsequent reply.  For Canadians that find this site, you should really check-out CIPPIC there is A LOT of good information about copyright, privacy, identify theft etc.

UPDATE: DOH!  Should have read the post by Matthew on Mr. Fewer first... will see how it goes with him.

2nd UPDATE: DOH!  Well that was quick, not quite a PFO though.  Essentially what CIPPIC/Mr. Fewer said is what is being said here on this site >> FIGHT IT OUT if you have the stomach for it (exactly what Matthew says) and the steps outlined is what's discussed here (such as accept the fee demand, negotiate a lower fee, offer-up $500.00, state you are an innocent infringer, do nothing and fight it out).  What I did learn (from a document they provided me) is that in Canada as an "innocent infringer" you could pay as little as $200.00.  In Canada copyright complainant is entitled to statutory damages between $500 and $20,000 (!!!) however in most cases courts are unlikely to ward more than $500.00 (HOORAY - so in Canada, high probability that GettyImages would not sue as I'm sure it will cost more then $500.00).

[stinger]

Great post meontheweb!  The comments to the article linked to, speak volumes about the size of this problem.  I hope the Canadian courts take care of their citizens, and I hope the American courts take care of Getty - if you know what I mean.

[SoylentGreen]

Fewer's not really in the "legal defense" business.
His comments are quite general, and not "meaty" enough.
Additionally, some of his stuff relates to older issues, and things have changed.

So, here are some interesting tidbits from me:

---

There have been about 60 Masterfile lawsuits in Canada, and only two Getty lawsuits that occurred several years ago.
In almost every case, these actions have been settled out of court, abandoned by the plaintiff, or a judgement was made against a defendant that defaulted.
I can only think of two cases that actually went before a judge; both were Masterfile cases.
One was a win for Masterfile, with MF awarded "a multiple of the license fee".
The other was a big loss also by Masterfile.  Search for Masterfile vs World Internet.
So, there's not a lot to go on as far as example cases go.
I have also heard that Getty does employ some lawyers in Canada to send out threatening letters as well.

Much as in the US, the Achilles heel of these cases turn out be who actually owns (and therefore who has the right to collect damages) in cases of infringement.
Getty has done a terrible job in this regard, and would be quite easy to defeat if they do not own the rights to the work in question.
So, that's where to start should you feel the need to fight.

---

Getty images doesn't have a single thing registered in Canada, last I checked.
That's a problem for Getty.

"Registration, while not necessary, provides certain presumptions that are useful if the copyright is litigated and prevents any person from relying on the defence of “innocent infringement” (i.e., where the infringer did not know and had no reason to suspect that copyright existed in the work). If there is no registration, an infringer who successfully proves the defence of innocent infringement could be prohibited from further copying but would not be liable for damages."

from page 66:
http://www.osler.com/uploadedFiles/News_and_Resources/Publications/Guides/Doing_Business_in_Canada_-_2011/DBIC-Chapter13.pdf

Even if this went to court (and it won't by the way), you could claim "innocent infringement", and not even have to pay the retail value of the image, probably nothing at all.

ProTip: I think that Masterfile has retained Osler (the source of the above quote) in the past for litigation...

S.G.

[Matthew Chan]

On a more positive note, it appears David Fewer is slowly making his presence known insofar as helping Canadian victims.  This is good in light of the fact there is still have no legal equivalent counterpart to Oscar Michelen here in the U.S.

I know I have written some harsh words regarding David Fewer (and Howard Knopf) for sitting on the sidelines watching Canadian victims twist in the wind.   But the fact that David appears to be communicating and sharing his thoughts more openly is something that gratifies me.

It doesn't hurt that his advice closely mirrors ELI advice.

I want it known that despite my previously harsh words against David Fewer for non-involvement, I would absolutely welcome David Fewer to the ELI Forums and give him a voice and platform for his views of the Canadian environment if he wishes.

What David Fewer needs to understand is that sharing information, insights, and informed opinions can be very helpful to the greater good even if you cannot directly represent someone.

I have no legal standing or formal legal training but that has obviously never dissuaded me to take on an informed position within a legal fight.  Everyone contributes with what they have.

I will likely extend a formal invitation to him in the near future to voice his thoughts and views.

[meontheweb]

Great post meontheweb!  The comments to the article linked to, speak volumes about the size of this problem.  I hope the Canadian courts take care of their citizens, and I hope the American courts take care of Getty - if you know what I mean.

Thanks - unfortunately (IMO) most Canadians would just rather pay, as we are usually "sorry for everything". :-)

[meontheweb]

@SoylentGreen - great post!  The one thing that the document Mr. Fewer sent mentioned that Masterfile will go after everyone and anyone; however it is good to read that they have not been entirely successful - but I guess with a whole team of attorneys that will bend over anywhich way, might as well keep 'em busy.

Thanks for the link - great information!  Added to my bookmarks...

@Matthew - I would hope that he would get more involved; Canadians definatley need a presence for these types of issues.  Until I found that other site, I hadn't realized how prevalent the issue is up here - and I can imagine that if Canadians simply pay because "it's the right thing to do" and because they may not know of any other alternative they will go after even more people and businesses.

[Susan]

I, too, have received a letter,first in May and then in June.  I am finally getting around to trying  to write to them. It does say that the image in question has a signed property release. I am a small business and I innocently put a photo up with an informational article for parents.  I copied this from somewhere on the web.  They want $1,065!!!

I immediately removed the image after the first letter. I just don't want this to go further and affect my credit.  They say that "failure to make payment will result in escalation to our Legal department and possibility of legal action being commenced for damages exceeding the amount presently being offered by way of settlement."

It is scary and I want to state my case in the letter.  Wish somewhere there was a sample letter that makes sense so I could get it right.  Should I seek legal counsel, which I can't afford?