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Author Topic: Got my first letter, yay.  (Read 7063 times)

SatoshiNakamoto

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Got my first letter, yay.
« on: November 20, 2013, 03:08:02 AM »
Hi all, I have been reading up on the forums and appreciate the knowledge.

I was curious if the photographer can "drop charges"? I know, and have read, to not contact them directly but we may have a common friend, actually. Otherwise I suppose I am in for the long-haul. I have over $1k request for 1 photo that was posted about a month ago. This is obviously a ridiculous charge for a blog and obviously think I am loaded due to the nature of the business. I have removed the photo now and have yet to create a plan to defend upon.

I have, also, read a lot of people not on these forums being actually legally pursued.

Here's some more info that may be of use. They named my company as the addressee and sent the screenshot of the photo used on our blog. My "company" is not registered nor created in any state (yet) and is just a work name as of now. Is this enough to just ignore or build a defense around? They do, obviously, have my home address though and my name is easily googled in relations to the "company".

Thanks for the feedback in advance.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2013, 06:51:35 AM »
If you can get something in writing from the photographer Getty "might" leave you alone, but it also may put the photographer in a sticky contractual situation with Getty at the same time... Getty pursues thousands on a daily basis, but still very rarely sues over single images.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

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lucia

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2013, 10:50:01 AM »
I was curious if the photographer can "drop charges"? I know, and have read, to not contact them directly but we may have a common friend, actually.
I would suggest that on the balance, it's unwise to contact the photographer at least for now.  If you do not know the photographer yourself, the photographer may take precisely the Getty view on infringement. Many photographers vehemently dislike people displaying their photo in any way, shape or form without licensing and will side with Getty on this. 

But worse: one of the difficulties for Getty is that they sometimes have flawed contracts. But this is not a problem for the photographer should s/he decide to sue.  So, it is not in your best interest for the photographer to learn details about this issue. You might increase the probability of a suit rather than decrease it. Plus, you could get into a time wasting argument with an actual person, and that's counter productive.

The time to explore whether the photographer would give you an out would be after Getty actually files a suit (which they probably won't). But even then, it might remain unwise for you to contact the photographer.  Or at least think carefully about what you are going to say to the photog if you do eventually decide to contact him.  Do you want to suggest you pay him a license-- provided it's dated retroactively? Settle with him directly? And so on? And before doing that, find out for sure how that affects Getty's right to sue. If it doesn't affect it... well... pointless to contact the photog.

What might be better is to do the same things one suggests when Getty contacts you at all:

1) check the US copyright office to figure out if this photographer regularly registers his photos himself or whether Getty named him specifically in any registration.  Many photogs not only do not regularly register their phttp://extortionletterinfo.com/forum/Themes/flagrantly_20g/images/bbc/italicize.gifhotos but many have never registered any photos.  If this photographer does not register his photos, it's possible that Getty still will also not have done so properly, and the photo will lack registration. (In the past, Getty definitely had flaws registrations relying on trying to get courts to view registration of 'collections' and applying to photos individually. They now know that method is flawed so it's possible they have remedied this, but if they  have, we don't know this yet.)  Specifically: if neither the photographer nor Getty registered the photo  before an infringement occurred, the judge cannot and will not levy statutory damages even if the judge finds an infringement happened.  This dramatically affects the amount that Getty (and the photographer himself) could possibly collect in a suit.  (The US copyright office search tool can be found using google.)

2) See whether this image is heavily used already (by googling.) This would not clear you, but might matter if someone was alleging they lost tons of money due to your infringement.

3) Try to find out if the image is licensed through multiple venues. (Maybe the photographer sells the images himself? If he does then Getty may be barred from suing on his behalf. They need to have an exclusive license to sell the images for him-- which means the photographer can't be permitting anyone else to sell them.)

4) Oh.. check whether you only hotlinked (i.e. included html to display an image hosted by some other party)?  Or did you host. (Hotlinking is not copying according to the 9th circuit. )

5) Think a bit about whether your use might not have been fair use anyway. ( If it was the top banner of your template... no.  But if you were discussing something and it was topical... maybe. Fair use can be a tough argument, but it exists. And Getty-- already unlikely to sue-- is even less likely to do so for cases that might suffer more flaws rather than fewer.)

Put all these in a file, and think about whether the upside and downside potential if Getty did sue. 

And all the while: Bear in mind Getty is unlikely to sue over 1 image embedded in a blog post.  AND now that they sent you evidence, you know the statute of limitations will close out on the date when that letter is dated. 

Whatever you do: don't rush.  Avoiding communicating anything to your detriment. (Heck, you don't need to communicate much in your favor if you don't want to do so. So if, for example, you hotlinked, you could either tell them, or just put stuff in your file and laugh everything they threaten to sue you.)

Lucia




Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2013, 12:22:54 PM »
Lucia's response is spot on. Please keep us posted on what you decide to do. 
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

stinger

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2013, 12:49:08 PM »
I agree.  Lucia's response ROCKS!

SatoshiNakamoto

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2013, 03:41:42 PM »
Thanks everyone.

The photo is definitely registered, both on the official copyright website and is only available for purchase through Getty (ugh). There are about a thousand uses of it from a reverse google search. I did, in fact host it. As an entrepreneur and startup person, I am surprised no one has ever reported on this before and like many here I was unwise to the copyright situation this country faces until now.

My biggest worry of who they would choose to sue is the fact that, although I have no money right now, my business is highly disruptive in a major industry. The picture was not useful for the article as it was an announcement post with a "fun" picture to the side. I am going to speak with my legal consultation to see what they advise. I'll direct them to here as well, what is the "best" link I could send them to here?

Is it best to act on my own behalf or show I have legal representation?

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 06:21:38 AM »
I am surprised no one has ever reported on this before and like many here I was unwise to the copyright situation this country faces until now.

We've been reporting on it for like 5 yrs, other sites/blogs longer, it's just not mainstream news...yet.

My biggest worry of who they would choose to sue is the fact that, although I have no money right now, my business is highly disruptive in a major industry.

If your business has no money, it obviously wouldn't be able to pay any judgement..IF they did sue ( highly unlikely, and they did win, and you have no money, would they still"win"?? NO


 I am going to speak with my legal consultation to see what they advise. I'll direct them to here as well, what is the "best" link I could send them to here?

Please talk to an IP attorney, someone who specializes in copyright, lest they will tell you to simply settle.

Is it best to act on my own behalf or show I have legal representation?

This question does not need to be addressed at this time, they have not filed suit. If you want them off your back then legal representation is the way to go

You also mentioned that the image in question is registered, while this may not be good for you, remember there is always the chance the image is not registered properly...You might want to research that as well.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 08:22:57 AM »
Also, make sure that your council is well versed in copyright law, we have seen too often lawyers people talk to recommending to pay when it looks like the case could be fought.  I am NOT a lawyer and the only person here to my knowledge who is a lawyer is Oscar, so talk my advise for what it's worth but you are not going to consult a brain surgeon for the best treatment for cancer. All I am saying is just make sure the lawyer you pick can deal with the cancer that is Getty.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 09:16:17 AM »
Also, make sure that your council is well versed in copyright law, we have seen too often lawyers people talk to recommending to pay when it looks like the case could be fought.  I am NOT a lawyer and the only person here to my knowledge who is a lawyer is Oscar, so talk my advise for what it's worth but you are not going to consult a brain surgeon for the best treatment for cancer. All I am saying is just make sure the lawyer you pick can deal with the cancer that is Getty.

or hire a hemorroid specialist! : )
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

lucia

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2013, 10:38:17 AM »
It seems the image is registered. I assume you mean individually registered by the photographer? If so, that does suggest a photographer who is in a different class from most photographers represented by Getty, few of whom bother to register their photos.  I'm pretty sure that up until now, no one who has posted here has been discussing a photo that was individually registered. (e.g. in my case, i got a letter for photo that getty considered 'registered' but which was included in a mass registration that didn't even cite the photographer's names-- and in particular did not cite the one who created the photo in question--, which the photographer's heirs were selling in multiple venues and which, in any event, I had hotlinked. In other words: a case Getty would have lost for multiple reasons! )

I think further up thread you said your company was not incorporated yet? So, the name is just a place holder? If so, whatever the characteristics of your company, Getty will need to sue you, not the company.  Because legally the company does not exist, never had existed and so cannot have 'done' anything.  (I also don't think this program cares if a company is "disruptive". So don't worry about that.)

It's still only one photo. But the characteristics might put you at a slightly higher risk that others. I would suggest that if you really are starting a company and you need this off your mind, you should consider an attorney.  Your case does fall under Oscars letter writing programs, but if you have a competent IP attorney, use them. 

perplexed

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2013, 03:08:01 PM »
Related question: what if they are suing a corporation that no longer exists and was dissolved several years ago?

lucia

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 04:27:17 PM »
I'm not sure partly because I'm not a lawyer and partly because we haven't discussed every possible thing that can happen with a corporation.
But I think if a corporation is dissolved, a private party can become 'on the hook'.  For that reason, if a corporation currently exists and you get a letter, you are advised not to dissolve the corporation.

But I'm not sure what happens with a very, very old corporation.  Presumably, if a corporation dissolved 3 years ago, it also took down its web site?  Or transferred ownership to someone else. If a corporation took a website down 3 years ago, then dissolved, it's a bit difficult for Getty to pursue a copyright issue because the statute of limitations would be up for anything they could have found on the web. However, if the ownership was transferred to someone else, and that person kept things operating the new owner might be liable for any continued display of copyrighted materials.  But this would have little to do with the old corporation, it would be the new owner. But really, to get an answer to the hypothetical about 'what about a dissolved corporation' we might need to know other details.   

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Got my first letter, yay.
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2013, 03:17:55 PM »
Be careful - in some states if the corporation was dissolved while a claim was pending, it can expose the corporate owners to personal liability. If it was already dissolved at the time the claim came in, then Getty would be out of luck as you cannot collect from a defunct company.

 

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