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Author Topic: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?  (Read 9804 times)

ellie

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I am a website consultant who works with a third party designer in India. One of our clients received the extortion letter and I have responded by removing the image, writing to Getty (fell on deaf ears of course)and they have started harassing the "owner" of the site who fortunately is a friend of mine. Something just occurred to me - the domain is still registered to my company even though her business is represented on the domain. Does that make me the owner and should they then only be speaking with me?

I have searched the forum for the answer but didn't find a thread addressing this issue. I would be really delighted to find out that I am the legally responsible entity because it would take the heat off of my client and allow me to fight this tooth and nail......

Thanks for any insight.


Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 12:39:06 PM »
If the domain "registrant" is your client and you are listed as the admin and tech contact, then they will pursue your client, as they are the "owner" of said domain.....
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
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ellie

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 01:22:38 PM »
Thanks for your reply. Actually the domain is registered to me in my godaddy account. Just hadn't gotten around to transferring it to the client/friend. So I am the registrant. Of course Getty is directing all correspondence (and now collection harassment) to her. Once I started my letters in response that showed an unwillingness to pay up they went back and told her they would not deal with me. But it only just occurred to me that I am actually still the registrant for the domain where her website sits.

Matthew Chan

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 01:31:06 PM »
When people buy a new car with financing, the buyer/owner does not actually get the physical title.  The title is held by the lender/lienholder. Although the lender holds the physical title, it is understood that the buyer/borrower is the "owner" albeit encumbered with a secured loan. They are the "owner" by virtue of having equitable title.

In real estate with investment properties, many professional investors (including myself) often hold property in other entities or corporate structures (for asset protection or tax reasons). Do "I" own it?  In a sense I do and in another sense I don't.

When investors sell property and carry the financing, equitable title can be transferred but the actual title can be held by the investor providing the financing.  Nevertheless, the person with equitable title would be considered the "owner".

For example, "Matthew Chan" actually owns very few meaningful assets but Matthew Chan does control more assets than is shown in public through trusts and corporate entities. Suing "Matthew Chan" would result in very little reward.

Coming full circle, I have held names for others.  I did it simply because at the time they did not know how to register their own domain and I "held" it for them.  The website content would clearly reflect someone else's business, not mine.

Although not a clean answer, given that the concept of "equitable title" exists elsewhere, I would say a case could be made that I wasn't the true owner even if my name was in the administrative/technical contacts.  It would all come down to the actual content and use of that content in question.

Having said all that, most people in the copyright extortion industry would not even be able to understand most of what I just wrote much less accept your argument that a domain is in your name but you don't "own" it.  It is entirely possible, though not likely as a practical matter. It would happen in rare circumstances as in what I have done as a favor for people I have known.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

ellie

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 01:42:05 PM »
Thank you Matthew....the fact is I want to be the owner. I am happy to take the responsibility of ownership if in fact I can! That would take the heat off of her and allow me to fight it without her being harassed. Not sure.....

Matthew Chan

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2012, 02:04:08 PM »
Most of the copyright extortionists don't really care where they spray their letters as long as someone pays up.  That is why letter victims need to get educated on the relevant issues so they know how to respond and don't get unnecessarily hassled.

The fact that you "want" ownership to take that on and the other party doesn't is being used against both of you to put the heat and stress on to "force" a payment.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

ellie

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2012, 02:13:46 PM »
I have sent numerous letters to them (after studying/devouring ELI), they even copied a customer of the website owner in their sloppiness!(A testimonial on the site had an email address in the background (not showing on the site)that they copied in their demand letter!!) I so wanted to just fight this myself for personal satisfaction and I can take the heat of their harassment but if they continue to make threatening phone calls to the website owner ("we are coming after you") I guess I will just pay Oscar to send the letter......

Matthew Chan

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2012, 02:28:11 PM »
Who is making the copyright infringement claim?  Getty Images?  Masterfail? Some collections attorney?
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

ellie

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2012, 02:33:56 PM »
Getty Images

Jerry Witt (mcfilms)

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2012, 03:20:24 PM »
>>they even copied a customer of the website owner in their sloppiness

I wouldn't be too sure this is just "sloppy." This is an example of the shoddy business practices these stock companies are guilty of. They know they are not going to squeeze a settlement out of you. So they focus on your client and conveniently, "accidentally" copy one of THEIR clients to try and embarrass them into settling. At this stage, I think the best course of action would be to explain what they are doing to your client, hire Oscar on their behalf, and make it clear to the stock company that should they have any contact with your client's clients again, there will be serious repercussions.

By the way, what sort of underworld type tries to get someone to give them money by indicating they are happy to damage your reputation? Oh yeah, EXTORTIONISTS.
Although I may be a super-genius, I am not a lawyer. So take my scribblings for what they are worth and get a real lawyer for real legal advice. But if you want media and design advice, please visit Motion City at http://motioncity.com.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2012, 04:31:57 PM »
If ever there was a reason for a complaint being filed with the attorney general, this would be it! If I were you I'd be going "Greg Troy" on their asses and firing off letters everywhere!
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2012, 06:31:00 PM »
Getty always prefers to go after the website not the developer or technical domain owner.  The chances are that the Mom and Pop e-trepreneur will not know about digital images, their value, copyright, website hits/views etc. They are simply more likely to be scared into paying up or getting their developer to pay up. Under the law BOTH of you could be responsible for any alleged copyright infringement - you for selection and placing the image on the site and the end user for making a use of the image without license or permission. So the rightsholder could go after either of you , both of you  or neither of you.   

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2012, 09:38:09 PM »
Just call me ELI freak extraordinaire ;D

Information on how to go "Greg Troy"on their asses as well as copies of my letters if you are interested can be found at the following link:

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/an-experiment-against-getty/

If ever there was a reason for a complaint being filed with the attorney general, this would be it! If I were you I'd be going "Greg Troy" on their asses and firing off letters everywhere!
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

ellie

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2012, 11:29:27 AM »
Thank you everyone for your well explained replies. I only wish it was one of my sites so I could go "Greg Troy" on 'em. You are all superb human beings to devote so much time to this providing much needed support to those in need.

If Getty has indeed been sold will the new owners continue this practice? With enough negative publicity no one will buy Getty Images and their entire business model will be based around extortion! Nice. BTW I have recently discovered fotalia.com who has great images and a very sensible policy for purchasing. I purchased an image for the website in question, exactly the same content - for $3 lifetime license!

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Is the domain owner liable or the company represented on the domain?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2012, 12:36:17 PM »
I am sure that the practice will continue as Getty's books were opened to the buyers prior to purchase and they knew exactly what they were getting. I read an article in 2009 where at that time Getty admitted sending out approximately 40,000 of these letters every year and with technology increasing by leaps and bounds I am sure they have up that amount considerably by now. You have to realize that despite what Getty claims this is not about protecting the intellectual property rights of their artists, this is a business model plain and simple and is all about the money. If it were truly about protecting the intellectual property rights of their artists a simple cease and desist letter would suffice or if they still insisted on collecting damages they would ask for the de minimis amount of $200. What Getty is doing is exploiting the copyright law and trying to grab as much money as they can before public outcry, the courts and lawmakers slammed the door on this type of practice.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/13/business/fi-lazarus13


Thank you everyone for your well explained replies. I only wish it was one of my sites so I could go "Greg Troy" on 'em. You are all superb human beings to devote so much time to this providing much needed support to those in need.

If Getty has indeed been sold will the new owners continue this practice? With enough negative publicity no one will buy Getty Images and their entire business model will be based around extortion! Nice. BTW I have recently discovered fotalia.com who has great images and a very sensible policy for purchasing. I purchased an image for the website in question, exactly the same content - for $3 lifetime license!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 12:39:12 PM by Greg Troy (KeepFighting) »
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

--Greg Troy

 

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