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Author Topic: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration  (Read 10757 times)

TSmith

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Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« on: December 27, 2010, 08:08:47 PM »
Oscar,

First of all I wanted to say thanks to you and Matthew for giving us small business owners information, courage, and strategy to handle this “Getty Image Extortion” situation, and expose their unscrupulous, pathetic, unethical business practices, of the likes never seen by me!

I have received two letters (Sept/Nov 2010) demanding payment of $1200 dollars for two images from their “Stone Collection”, and from your last audio update 10-08-11 you indicated to us that collection was registered in 2008, and you weren’t aware of litigation, and people’s situations who used those images for sites built after 2008, well mine was built by a 3rd party in 2009, and they weren’t aware the images were from Getty, or was I.

I have done extensive research from this website and many places on the internet, so I’m up-to-date on what is going on.

Also I have a attorney/friend who has written a “unsent” letter to Getty using the outline of what you use.

My question is – "What if I contacted, or we all contacted the Attorney General of the State of Washington, and our respective state’s Attorney General’s, and the FTC, and file individual complaints, or file some sort of “class action” complaints?"

Surely, it would seem to me that any Attorney General would see this as extortion of a huge multi-billion dollar corporation upon innocent small entrepreneurs.

This type of practice must be stopped!


Regards,

TSmith

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2010, 03:12:41 PM »
Periodically we get contacted by class action attorneys looking to see if a viable claim a can be alleged against Getty.  At least four or five such lawyers have contacted me over the years.  I have always supplied them with all the relevant information they requested but nothing has ever come of it.  I do think that Getty is open to a claim that they are seeking damages in  an amount to which they know they are not entitled. I also think that many states have laws that prohibit the threat of lawsuit when you don't actually intend to start a lawsuit. I think Getty has exposure there as well.  But let me remind everyone that seeking damages for copyright infringement is perfectly legal. Most of the time, these images do belong to Getty (or their photographers) and they have a completely valid infringement claim. That may be what is causing class action lawyers to take a pass, though I can't speak for them

TSmith

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2010, 02:59:54 PM »
Oscar,

Thanks for your response to my question, however I still have to question the motives, and legitimacy of Getty's claims.

You said:  "Most of the time, these images do belong to Getty (or their photographers) and they have a completely valid infringement claim."

Alright I can understand that 100%, - However with my images there aren't any watermarks, or the "EXIF Data" doesn't contain any ownership or copyright information, so it seems like this a scheme for "entrapment" to extort a lot of money, because comparable images can be purchased outright for a few dollars, and that's exactly what I did and replaced their images when I got their letter!

It seems to me they should have to stamp a watermark and include copyright information in the "EXIF Data" region, and failure not to do so, would mean that their images are "public domain" without it.

These types of predatory business practices must fall under some sort of illegal procedures.

I have been in business for over 25 years, and have never encountered such sleazy tactics as these, that's why it seems like a perfect "class action" case for Attorney Generals or the FTC.


Best Regards,

TSmith

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2010, 04:21:58 PM »
While I agree that there may be grounds for a class action, the law does not require any watermark or copyright notice to be affixed to the work.  That may not be fair in this circumstance, but it is the law so that one's IP is protected.  You would not want to lose your intellectual property rights just because you failed to put a watermark or copyright notice on a piece of your work. Getty is definitely heavy-handed and pursuing a weak claim with an over-the-top effort to intimidate the recipients.

TSmith

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 03:59:43 PM »
Oscar,

Here is a update to my Getty saga, my attorney wrote them a letter similar to your letter, and Getty wrote back saying it didn't make any difference if I didn't intentionally and use their copyrighted "Stone Collection" images on my website, even though a 3rd party designed the site, and I immediately took down their images upon receipt of their first letter.

They are demanding full payment for their images, that I replaced for a mere $10 dollars.

In your opinion should we:

1)  Just totally ignore their demands and see if they sue
 
2)  Reply back restating that these images were used without my knowledge of their rights, and I had ZERO intention of selling, or profiting from these images
 
3)  Contact the State of Washington State's Attorney General and "lay my cards out"
 
4)  Have you get involved in my case


Best Regards,

TSmith

screwedbygetty

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2011, 11:58:46 AM »
TSmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oscar,
>
> Here is a update to my Getty saga, my attorney
> wrote them a letter similar to your letter, and
> Getty wrote back saying it didn't make any
> difference if I didn't intentionally and use their
> copyrighted "Stone Collection" images on my
> website, even though a 3rd party designed the
> site, and I immediately took down their images
> upon receipt of their first letter.
>
> They are demanding full payment for their images,
> that I replaced for a mere $10 dollars.
>
> In your opinion should we:
>
> 1)  Just totally ignore their demands and see if
> they sue
>  
> 2)  Reply back restating that these images were
> used without my knowledge of their rights, and I
> had ZERO intention of selling, or profiting from
> these images
>  
> 3)  Contact the State of Washington State's
> Attorney General and "lay my cards out"
>  
> 4)  Have you get involved in my case
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> TSmith

Have you decided which actions to take yet?  Any results from actions taken?

TSmith

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 01:19:23 AM »
screwedbygetty,

We are still working on a strategy, but few options exist.


Regards,

TSmith

SoylentGreen

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 05:51:11 PM »
I wouldn't take anything that Getty says as 'advice' as to one's legal options.  Or Masterfile for that matter.  They'll just tell you that you pay no matter what.

The question is, has Getty sued anyone in the 'states recently?  If not, are they going to begin with an issue of only two images?  Especially over two images that are probably not copyrighted anyway.  If the images aren't copyrighted at the time of the alleged infringement, they won't be able to get their legal fees.  Who on earth would spend more than 5k to get the purchase price of the two images (which might not even be the $1200 that they demanded?

Might be good to check about it.

SG

TSmith

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2011, 06:52:49 PM »
SoylentGreen,

Thanks for your reply, the problem is these images were registered in 2008, and were found to be on my website
after that. My website designer just did a Google search to find the images, and didn't have any idea where
they came from, and wouldn't have used them if they were from Getty.

After talking with two lawyers,  they both say I'm liable for damages and lawyer fees if they decide
to sue. That's the big question will they sue for a measly $1200 dollars in court, they do have the rights to do so, even
though they used the most despicable methods to find these images, and their failure to have these images
watermarked, or the "EXIF info" saying they were owned by them put in place.

I would like to see some sort of "group action" take place like filling a complaint with the State of Washington,
Attorney General's office, or some sort of "class action" harassment suit filed by donations from this group!

I think there are grounds to fight them, and would like them "hauled" in front of a judge to explain their business model
and practices, with a bunch of major news reporters attending, and reporting the event.

Maybe we should ask Oscar and Matthew if that's a good idea to take the offensive against them.


Regards,

TSmith

SoylentGreen

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2011, 03:00:53 PM »
Dear TSmith,

Yes, you had mentioned the 2008 registration.  I should have read more carefully.

I feel that Getty and their ilk make it sound like a lawsuit is a 'slam-dunk' for them as part of their scare-tactics.  I'm not an attorney, but I don't think it's always so simple.  For example, Getty may have registered the images in question.  But, is Getty an "exclusive agent" or "exclusive licensee" of the images?  If copyright stays with the artist, then Getty is an "agent" or "exclusive agent", but not an 'exclusive licensee".  Getty's contract with the artist may say that it can sue on the artist's behalf... but if Getty's only an "agent" (sole copyright hasn't been transferred to Getty), then what?  It might mean that Getty has no jurisdiction to seek compensation. It's in the contracts between the company and the artist. This sort of thing depends on local laws and a judge's interpretation of them, too.

It would be interesting to see some sort of group or class action, indeed!!
I guess that it would need to be shown that Getty et al have broken some law(s).
They seem to be careful about that thus far.

Another poster here mentioned that a masterfile employee had stated to him/her that 85 percent of their revenue came from demand letters/settlements.  I wonder if a business whose revenue for the most part came from threats and not traditional business practices (actual sales) could fit the loose definition of 'racketeering'.  That is, 'engaged in the sale of a solution to a problem that the institution itself creates or perpetuates' as wiki puts it.  Since these companies are private, it would be difficult to prove where the revenue comes from.

Of course, I can't predict the future.  But, these incidents are increasing and it seems to be getting sleazier.  If the buying public is educated enough about the issues, it could affect the perception of these image companies.  That could really hurt sales and put the brakes on this a bit.  The legal and social climate could change and stop some of this as well.  For example, if there was a cap on what could be awarded in court.  Or, people could become more aware of their rights, etc.

SG

Helpi

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2011, 08:27:24 PM »
Soylent, if I were building my case, lack of standing (i.e., Getty has no right to sue) would not be the most promising avenue.

All Getty needs for standing is an assignment of the copyright, which I assume they do not have, or to enter into an exclusive license to do whatever it is they are claiming you are infringing on (e.g., "exclusive right to display images on the web during such and such period of time"), which I assume they do have.

Copyright is a bundle of rights (each right set out in section 106 of the Copyright Act).  The entire bundle vests with the "author" (generally the creator of the work) of the copyrighted work the moment the work is created, no copyright notice is required.  After that vesting of rights, the initial copyright owner may carve up the rights any way desired, in whole or in part and either assign them to a new owner or license them. If Getty has an "exclusive license" they have the right to sue for infringement to the extent their exclusive license includes the use they are complaining about.  As far as the right to sue is concerned, there is no difference between assigning a right and granting an exclusive license to it.

If for some reason they only have a non-exclusive license, they do not have the right to sue.  

So why would I not be very confident attacking them on the right to sue. Because I can't imagine they are going around threatening people with infringement unless they had an exclusive license.  And if you google for their standard contributors agreement you'll find exclusive license language in it.   Push comes to shove and they will have to produce an exclusive license or other evidence of ownership.

"if there was a cap on what could be awarded in court."

There is insofar as statutory damages are concerned:  $30,000 for non-willful infringement and $150,000 for willful infringement.  Per work infringed.

"Or, people could become more aware of their rights, etc. "

I would suggest the US Copyright Office for information about copyright. It's excellent. It could answer you questions about the right to sue, about caps on damages and others.

Like this one which seems to be a big unknown to a lot of people. No watermark or any other information is required to be put on a photograph for the author of the photo to have all the rights of a copyright owner. Once the author creates the photo they have all the rights of a copyright owner.  

This is the same rule in just about every country in the world. The US was very late to the game on this rule; we used to require formalities like a copyright notice to be placed when you published a work.  We joined everyone else in 1989.  

So you really need to assume every photograph is subject to copyright and you need to get a license to use it unless you're very confident your use has a defense which would allow it without a license (e.g., "fair use" or one of the specific exceptions to the need for a license that are spelled out in the copyright act.)

SoylentGreen

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2011, 01:05:14 PM »
Hi Helpi

I spoke of caps on what settlements can be sought; some places now have "innocent infringer" provisions which have lowered the bar on what settlements can be sought in court in cases where the defendant was really a victim.  In some places it's as low as $200 and as high as $2000.00, if I recall correctly.

The possible penalties for statutory damages ($30,000 for non-willful infringement and $150,000 for willful infringement) per work infringed are technically correct for some jurisdictions. However, it would be very extraordinary for such a judgment to be handed down.  Readers here should visit Matthew's post "Recent Masterfile Federal Case Vindicates Our Position! A MUST READ".  Masterfile was seeking $5,880.00 for alleged unauthorized use of four images for three years.  The defendant filed no defense and didn't even show up for court.  The verdict?  Masterfile got $1,120.00.  Their lawyers got $4,860.00.  So this should give a kind of benchmark of what to expect in a bad-case scenario.  I pick on Masterfile a bit in this post; examples of Getty lawsuits are somewhat rare.

I do feel that there is ample evidence of Getty threatening to sue over the alleged unauthorized use of images that have not been registered as copyrighted.  Certainly, any work is "copyright" by the artist at the moment of its creation.  But, the artist in question would need to seek compensation in the event of unauthorized use, unless the rights were surrendered to Getty.

A very important point to note is that a company or individual can threaten litigation over practically anything at any time.  One could even pay the nominal fee to the court and actually file a lawsuit even if there is no real intent to "go to court".  Even if I knew that I would lose for sure in court, I could still do it as an intimidation tactic.  That is, one can threaten litigation with no obligation to litigate and one can actually sue with no obligation to have a winning case, or even go to court.  Many entities file lawsuits, and then the plaintiff lets the suit expire, or it's simply cancelled if the defendant comes up with a great defense.  Getty needn't tell anyone that it doesn't have a solid case; they could even lie to you.  Most of the money that Getty receives from this is from out-of-court settlements, so we can say that intimidation works quite well.  In addition, remember that anyone on the Internet can pop out of nowhere, and say "That's mine. You owe me thousands".  You'd better check out their claims in minute detail before paying.  Now, I do not mean to make light of such threats or litigation.  They do need to be taken seriously.  As Oscar says, "don't let it come to a lawsuit".  So, the best bet is to get solid legal advice about such matters.

Indeed one would not need to 'attack' Getty in court.  If Getty were to come after you or me for say, $10,000, it wouldn't be unreasonable for us or our counsel to ask to see the contracts in question before paying.  They may also back off if the contracts are crap.

As for the motivations for having strange or unexpected contracts, it happens all the time.  People make mistakes, the documents weren't drafted by patent attorneys and some artists just consider their work to be their "baby" and don't want to give up all rights to it.  Other artists want to use their work in other ways in addition to licensing it to stock art companies.

If we refer to Masterfile Corp. v. World Internett Corp. et al. (2001), points 20 through 33 ... 38:  (I've underlined some important findings)

http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/en/2001/2001fct1416/2001fct1416.html


[20]            Five Masterfile contracts with various artists were reviewed in connection with these submissions. They are: a Memorandum of Agreement dated April 19, 1985 between Masterfile and Daryl Benson (the "First Contract"; a Memorandum of Agreement dated September 1, 1988 between Masterfile and Wilhelm Schmidt (the "Second Contract"; a Memorandum of Agreement dated July 1, 1989 between Masterfile Corporation and Bruce Rowell (the "Third Contract"; a Memorandum of Agreement of May 1, 1994 between Masterfile and Paul Chen (the "Fourth Contract"; and a Memorandum of Agreement dated June 1, 1999 between Masterfile and Bruce Rowell (the "Fifth Contract".


[21]            In the First Contract, the artist appoints Masterfile his sole and exclusive agent worldwide for the sale and licensing of all defined images. Provision 2.02 of the First Contract makes it clear that, in future, the photographer will execute any assignments or licences of copyright needed to give effect to a sale or licence of an image. Respondents' Counsel says that, if Masterfile was to be an exclusive licensee, the First Contract would so provide and there would be no need to involve the photographer in future copyright assignments.


[22]            Respondents' Counsel also refers to provision 4.03 of the First Contract. Masterfile relies on its sole right to reproduce the images as proof of its status as a licensee but Respondents' Counsel notes that provision 1.01(a) states that the copies Masterfile makes must be clearly distinguishable from the originals. Respondents' Counsel submits that, since no licence is required to make a distinguishable image, Masterfile's right to reproduce a distinguishable image does not support a finding that it is an exclusive licensee.


[23]            Furthermore, provision 5.01 of the First Contract makes it clear that the artist and not Masterfile retains all present and future copyright.


[24]            Provision 7.03 of the First Contract deals with litigation and states in part that:

The Photographer grants Masterfile full and complete authority to make those claims and take such action as may be necessary (in the opinion of Masterfile) if there occurs any damage to, destruction or loss of any Material, or the unauthorized use of Agency Images by any third party. All amounts recovered by Masterfile in connection with any claims or action shall be apportioned and paid equally to the Photographer and Masterfile...


[25]            Although it appears from this provision that the artist agrees that Masterfile will litigate alone over unauthorized use of an image, it is my view that, because copyright stays with the artist, this provision is not sufficient to appoint Masterfile an exclusive licensee of the artist's copyright in the image.


[26]            The Second Contract also appoints Masterfile as the artist's agent and entitles it to make distinguishable reproductions of the images. As well, in provision 5.01, the artist states that he is the sole holder of the copyright in the images. Again, Masterfile can litigate about unauthorized use but there is no provision for a copyright assignment for litigation and no reference to Masterfile as an exclusive licensee. Accordingly, it is my conclusion that this contract does not make Masterfile an exclusive licensee.


[27]            The significant provisions of the Third Contract are similar to those in the First and Second Contracts and my conclusion about Masterfile's status is the same.


[28]            In provision 2.01(a) of the Fourth Contract, the artist warrants that he is the sole and exclusive copyright owner. In provision 3.05(a), the artist agrees that copyright may be transferred to Masterfile if it pursues claims under provision 7.04. That provision gives Masterfile authority to litigate claims dealing with the unauthorized use of images.


[29]            The second paragraph of provision 7.04 is the first version of Masterfile's deemed assignment clause. It reads as follows: "This section 7.04 will be deemed an assignment of copyright to the extent that such assignment is necessary in any jurisdiction to permit Masterfile to pursue claims on behalf of Chen [the artist]."


[30]            Reading provisions 3.05(a) and 7.04 together, it appears that, in the future, two events are possible. Firstly, copyright may actually be transferred to Masterfile. Secondly, it may be deemed to have been assigned, so that Masterfile can litigate on an artist's behalf. The clear implication, in my view, is that the artist will not be a party to Masterfile's litigation. If Masterfile does not sue, copyright remains with the artist. If Masterfile does sue, the deemed assignment only takes effect in jurisdictions in which, without the assignment, the artist would be a necessary party to an action.


[31]            Masterfile takes the position that, because it is the artist's exclusive licensee, it does not need to rely on the deemed assignment. It submits in the alternative that, if it is not an exclusive licensee, the deemed assignment gives it standing to sue for breach of copyright without making the artist a plaintiff in this litigation.


[32]            I have concluded that, under the Fourth Contract, Masterfile has not been made an exclusive licensee. Therefore, it becomes necessary to consider the validity of the deemed assignment. This will be done in the context of the Fifth Contract.


[33]            The Fifth Contract was a new form of contract that Masterfile asked its existing and new artists to sign as of June of 1999. However, only forty-four of the forty-nine artists whose images are at issue in this case have given Masterfile a deemed assignment of copyright. Some of the forty-four only gave the deemed assignment after Worldsites and Taalwood began to copy the images. As well, the following five artists never had deemed assignment of copyright clauses in their contracts with Masterfile:

Paul Terpanjian

Larry Williams

Kerry Hayes

Bill Brooks

Wilhelm Schmidt


[34]            In provision 3 of the Fifth Contract, Masterfile is appointed as an agent, not a licensee. In provision 4, Masterfile acknowledges that copyright will remain exclusively with the artist. However, the artist agrees that at a future date he or she will assign copyright to Masterfile in certain circumstances that include litigation. In provision 4.5, Masterfile is authorized to execute on the artist's behalf any documents required to assure and confirm Masterfile's copyright.

.
.
.

[38]            Based on the Fifth Contract, it is again my conclusion that Masterfile is not an exclusive licensee. Further, although it could have taken an actual assignment of copyright in order to litigate without making the artist a party to the litigation, and although it could have executed such an assignment itself, Masterfile has not done so pursuant to provision 4.5.



Getting back to our discussion.  In short, the finding was that the plaintiff lacked capacity to bring suit on behalf of copyright holders.  This case sets a precedent in Canada.  Have the laws changed since 2001?  Maybe.  Have the contracts been improved?  Probably.  But, likely not in every single case.  My point is that some good counsel and a little research can go a long way.  Everyone should do this before writing a big check.

SG

Helpi

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2011, 12:02:14 AM »
"I'm not an attorney, "

I am. The directive that good counsel and some research is a good thing is not a controversial one for me. In fact, we could refer to it here as "extortion letter communique no. 1" to make it topical.

http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/peoples-communique-no-1/

It also generally costs money. In any event, many of your points are duly noted.

I certainly would not advise cutting a check to anyone without having a lawyer evaluate the claim.  Even if the claim is legit, you are not in a position to evaluate its strength or necessarily the best way to respond to it.  The devil is often in the details (as you seem to be aware of).

Good luck with your situation.

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2011, 05:25:49 PM »
I think Helpi hits it on the nail here.  Soylent Green's analysis and referral to that prior Masterfile case is very clear and well reasoned, but as Helpi points out it will cost money to  prove your defense in court. Many times in dealing with Masterfile we point out some of the weaknesses of the language in their contracts and assignments. I have also questioned whether assigning copyright for the sole purpose of registration and then re-assigning it back to the photographer who then re-assigns it back for enforcement ( which some of these digital image warehouses do on occasion)is really the way the Copyright Act was meant to be utilized. But in the end, it always comes down to money - who is willing to spend money to enforce a right or enforce a defense. Masterfile has sued over a single infringement because they may get their legal fees back and they want to send a message.  The many of their lawsuits have  been decided on default, the other side just allows a judgment to be entered.  Who knows if Masterfile ever collects?  It usually comes down to it being cheaper to settle than to litigate.  If you notice, when someone fights back on these issues, the digital image companies often lose.  Just look at some of the cases we have reported on here.  Now that Getty finally has some registered images (the popular Stone Collection) don't be surprised if they get more aggressive in pursuing cases involving those pictures.  I would fully expect Getty to take a more "Masterfile-like" approach to cases involving registered images, including filing a lawsuit here or there over one image or two images just to send a message.

SoylentGreen

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Re: Getty "Stone Collection" Images - Used After 2008 Registration
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2011, 01:28:34 PM »
Some good points have been made, indeed!!

A cursory search of the US copyrights database hasn't turned up a reference to the "Stone Collection" that TSmith mentions.  However, I did notice that many of the Getty registrations have the actual "copyright holder" listed near the bottom of the entry.  It's usually different from that of "Getty" itself.

If an entity was to be sued by Getty, and the defendant wins, couldn't the defendant collect legal fees from Getty?

Also, I think that re-assigning copyright back to the image dealer (Getty for example) for legal enforcement purposes could be a big mistake.  It's quite easy to indicate when and from where the alleged infringement was detected.  So, keep good records.  It's like saying, "look we caught this company" and then bringing a contract into court that was drafted after the alleged infringement.

We chatted previously about a class action.  Getty may have taken on some risk here.  Consider the present situation wherein Getty has been threatening hundreds of companies/people with litigation over breach of copyright.  If Getty doesn't own the copyright to the content in question, then it really shouldn't be threatening people.  It has no right to in such cases.  It's easy to demonstrate that Getty's the expert in the business, it could be shown that they should have known better.  If Getty has no more claim that I do, what's to stop me from doing what they're doing?  What's that?  It's 'illegal'? Some might say that it's fraudulent.  In addition, if contracts are changed after an alleged infringement, to make their case look better, then it begins to sound a little like a conspiracy.  It would be interesting to see a group come together and file suit.

I'm not trying to be contrary to good advice here; I'm just interested in discussion.

SG

 

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