Thread Separation: Rebuttal to Oscar not responsive

[Debbie]

I don't know about contacting Oscar.  He doesn't seem to be very responsive.  I received a letter last month demanding $4,000 for an image on my website.  The company that designed the website was not responsive at all.  Oscar said he'd charge $600 retainer to try to settle but never sent the retainer agreement after I sent him the information and didn't return phone call.  I'm in the legal field and don't know many attorneys that practice in intellectual property (or that want to deal with this)  Seems to me, it's a wide open field for an atty willing to handle these cases.  I ended up paying Masterfile but am attempting to collect from the web design company.   The time it was taking me to deal with this issue was starting to cost me a great deal, not to mention the peace of mind having it over with.  Good luck!

[Oscar Michelen]

Dear Debbie:

I respectfully  disagree with your description of our contact.  I emailed you back with in a few days and you had already decided to settle. I have spent years working on this issue with Matt Chan and know the intricacies of this claim better than anyone else in the country.  If on occasion -especially  when I am on trial- I can be a little difficult to reach there is not much I can do about that. Please keep in mind that I drastically reduce my normal IP rates for this situation to try and help people out.  On Masterfile cases I cut the rate over 60% and in Getty matters 66%.  I suspect this will not make the field "wide open" for lawyers as most of them could care less about  "the little guy" and these types of claims.  Never mind the countless people I talk to DAILY and through emails who never retain my firm yet I answer their questions and try to steer them in the right direction.  That you chose to panic and pay quickly is no reason to smear what  we have created on this site. Search the web right now and you will see that no one else is doing a damn thing about this growing problem because no one else is willing to put their name and reputation on the line like this.  I have spoken about this issue at law schools, in journals, in national media.  I have been retained as an expert witnesses in cases in the IP field; I am a professor at New York Law School, and a highly successful practicing litigator in NY for over 25 years. Tell me where you are going to find anyone with those credentials willing to handle these claims in this fashion? So before you start telling people to reconsider retaining me, maybe you should have picked up the phone and called me again or written me a second email to try and reach out to me in consideration of what we are trying to accomplish on this website.  If this episode exemplifies your level of persistence, I have concerns for the success of your legal practice.

[Matthew Chan]

Well, I can honestly say that in since this website was launched in 2008, I have never seen Oscar respond in such a stern manner here on the forums. Normally, I am the less patient one. The crux of this has to do with people's unreasonably high expectations vs. what we can realistically do, not to mention maintain our good business reputations outside of this fundamentally negative controversy.

What people don't realize is that I nearly shut down this website 2 months ago. Now just think about that very carefully if this website was shut down back in January.  Would ANYONE have a platform or to be complaining right now?

I have long wanted to acknowledge and discuss certain issues publicly but have restrained myself mostly because of my working relationship with Oscar. All you readers need to know that Oscar has argued to keep this website going despite my thoughts on closing this website. And it is NOT because of all the money he is making from contributing to this website or implementing the Defense Letter Program.

It is because he is trying to serve a greater good and serve the defense position that he feels is fundamentally right. Quite literally as far as I have been able to see, Oscar is the ONLY attorney in the WORLD who has put a face to this cause and directly engaged all the parties involved include the major stock photo companies, their legal counsel, the little guy, and me (who has created, organized, and brainstormed our entire Internet infrastructure to reach a worldwide audience becoming the #1 website in the WORLD on this subject.)  If you don't believe that claim, go check out Google and see which names and website persistently come up on this subject (Oscar Michelen and Matthew Chan).

We have openly invited people to work with us including lawyers and solicitors around the world. With the exception of a couple of email communications of minor interest from a couple of lawyers/solicitors, NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE!  NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THIS ISSUE until that letter package arrives at someone's doorstep. Then all of a sudden, a frantic Google search later, Oscar and I get put into the cross-hairs as the people who need to respond both personally and quickly.  Oh, did Oscar already mention that most people are trying to get this immediate help for FREE? Many won't do their homework FIRST before posting they want help.  They start from almost ZERO EDUCATION.

And as far as letter recipients go? I cannot find one person who will publicly post their name or photo to their complaints in this fight. To date, I am the only letter recipient crazy enough to have gone public in a big way.  I can promise you it was not to brag about it. It was a very personal and strategic decision that I made early on that if I wanted to be taken and treated seriously, people needed to know not only what I was going to do about it but who it came from.

Anyhow, this is only the tip of the iceberg. I have a longer dissertation that will be prominently posted later on. Hang on to your shorts, because people's feelings are going to get hurt....

Matthew Chan

[Matthew Chan]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for signing your name. We don't feel so alone anymore. :-)

But seriously, there aren't a lot of bad apples per se.  But there are a LOT of emotions behind this issue and people respond to the stress in different ways. Neither Oscar or I would ever claim that we couldn't do better. But it gets tiresome when people come in and think that this monster site and the thousands of messages on this forum is because we are running an enterprise operation.

When in reality we are simply two professional guys from different parts of the U.S. that came together by way of the Internet nearly 3 years ago and decided to do something about this issue in a bigger way. We had to donate our spare time and resources initially to get this going and we still do.  We get between 400-500 visits EVERY DAY! We now service nearly 7,000 unique visitors per month. That is an average of over 200 unique visitors per day. That means that our visitors are checking with us at least twice per day for updates.

The number of people who donate or pay for the letter program is in my estimate less than 3% of all unique visitors! Unfortunately, that 3% is not nearly enough to do much more.

I think it is time that I released more of this type of information to give people an idea of how much of a shoe-string operation this is compared to world-wide reach we have attained, not to mention the deep pockets of the big stock photo companies. And while we can take some of the credit, Getty Images and the stock photo industry has been relentless in the ongoing release of their demand letters. This issue continues to expand and touch people in nearly all business and industries that have a website.

The growth curve of this website has been steeper than I anticipated and continues to beat my estimates because the stock photo companies are driving more people to us.

I am not picking on anyone in particular but people really need to get a grip. The larger this website grows and the greater the number of letter recipients, the less Oscar and I can do to help each individual.  That is why we encourage people to communicate on the forums which is a huge database of information. That is why we have produced information audios and videos.  We have slowly crept into social media with Scribd, YouTube, and Twitter.

Having said that, we do have a few loyal contributors that do what they can by posting opinions when we can't. Or they direct others to the other places of this website for the information they are seeking.

Oscar and I really don't ask for much.  We just want some extra thought and consideration before people start ranting and spouting off having unrealistic expectations of what we can do. Oscar and I have never gone on a money-seeking campaign and we don't foresee ever doing it. It simply isn't our style. We simply do what we can with we have (or don't have). If people can't understand that and too many people start complaining and criticizing too much, then maybe we can turn the clock back 3 years to a time when there was very little organized discussion community to work with and let everyone fend for themselves.

I promise you, nothing would make Getty Images and all the major stock photo companies happier than for Oscar and I to disband and give up on this website. There is probably no website that is more of a thorn to them than this one.

Believe me, even after nearly 3 years of this working for nearly free, Oscar and I are still pretty lonely people when it comes to this issue. Not many people want to jump into this controversy voluntarily. It is us two and a lot of spectators and few loyal "eyes and ears" out there.  Thanks for listening.

Matthew Chan

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

I certainly hope that a couple of bad apples don't spoil the whole basket, you guys, ( Matt & Oscar) have helped many people in many ways. I personally found this site after getting the letter I read every single post and then some, and made my decision to contact my attorney, who promptly advised that I pat Getty and be done with it..NOT gonna happen So I came back here and contacted Oscar..the best money I ever spent!! Not to mention the knowledge I have gathered in the meantime. So kudos to both matt and Oscar for being the brave faces and the ones considerate enough to dedicate their personal time to this cause..

Best
Robert Krausankas
Web Design of Palm Beach, Inc.

[Oscar Michelen]

Matthew:

Thanks for the great posts and expressing my sentiments perfectly

[sdpetprojects]

I just want to chime in and express that I appreciate this resource very much. I received the dreaded Getty letter in December, and it stressed me out to no end and has weighed heavily on me for months. As was mentioned already, you are already dealing with very emotional people who just want this problem to go away and now! Your website made me feel like I was not alone - and I don't say that about websites. There's just not another resource like it.

I have made use of Oscar's service, and am happy that I did. The wait time of 2 weeks did make me concerned - just because I had no guideline for how long the process should take or if my message had actually gotten through. Some of the unreasonable expectations can be mitigated by communicating Oscar's time contraints prominently - looks like that has already happened. Those who are rude, well, I hope those of us who are rational can drown out their whining. Oscar provides an optional service at a great price, and people are welcome to take their chances elsewhere if they are not happy. Also, they could very well be Getty trolls trying to undermine this site.

If nothing else, it's great to air the frustrations and get a dialogue started.

Jamie

[Matthew Chan]

Two weeks is an unusually long wait time which is rare. It is difficult to put up an average wait time because there are many variables.  We hate to tell people they will have to wait 2 weeks when the reality is it often takes much less time and really not the case. There are extenuating circumstances here. But probably we just need to add a disclaimer at some point.

Heck, even I have had a tough time getting ahold of Oscar and I work with the guy!

The best thing to do is to simply be persistent and leave follow-up messages is my best advice.

Matthew Chan

[JPicker]

I also want to chime in and express my profound appreciation for this site.

I received the letter last fall and it came less than a week after my Mom passed away after a long, protracted battle with cancer. As if I wasn't stressed out enough .. it was the last thing I needed and an initial call to Getty in Seattle with a compassion plea fell on completely deaf ears.

Finding this site, and in retaining Oscars help, was a god-send.
Thank you Matthew and Oscar.

[madhatter]

I also would like to express my utter appreciation for this site.  Oscar and Matthew have provided invaluable free information.  I have read every post on this site and have personnaly hired Oscar.  I think that maybe they should charge a nominal fee for access to this information.  No one else would supply this much info for free.  Where else would you find a great lawyer giving free advice?  I sincerely hope that the few bad apples out there (ones that get the free information and then complain) do not ruin this for the rest. I am not a lawyer or business person and therefore cannot give good advice,but, do appreciate this site and do not want to see it stop. Getty makes me see RED!!!

Betty

[Oscar Michelen]

Thank you all for your supportive posts. I am diligently working on getting the turnaround time to  be 72 hours.

[sundog49]

I thank you both, as well. Your site gave me insight into the problem (and what I'd been ignorant of inspite of a long career in the graphics industry) and lessened the 'fear factor'.  This situation has enormous impact on me because I'm an artist who may have ignorantly put a number of clients at risk.  I am a freelancer with little assets and not wealthy at all because of age and disability.  Even one demand (such as I just received through a client) is a severe strain.  I not only have to think of ending my business because of this issue, I have to do whatever I can to protect past clients and how to keep them from 'getting the letter' if I possibly can.  I really can't backtrack and check all the images I've used to make sure they were truly fair use, but have offered to rework any images I created that attract Gettykind.  Sounds like if they were going to, they'd have gotten the letter by now.  If this is a fair free question, am I wrong about this?  

I don't want to presume on your services, Oscar and will gladly pay your stated fee if your help will pull me out of this fire.  I'd just have to take bankruptcy if Getty comes after me for more than this one demand, at this point.  Although in today's credit climate, I've heard bankruptcy doesn't really help you either and there are rumors of 'debtor's prison' being reinstated here.

[Oscar Michelen]

Its hard to say sundog whether you are in the clear just because your clients haven't gotten "the letter" yet.  Getty is still sending out hundreds of letters each week and pic scout can only scour so many websites per day.  Some folks who have only a single image that Getty is going after opt to wait it out and see if they get sued.

[aminb]

I talked to Oscar over a month ago. I sent him the letters I got from Getty , including the 14-day escalation. I also sent him my check to retain him. Oscar is a a great guy and I told him repeatedly that he was doing a great service for all of us. I am truly appreciative of his efforts. I do understand that he is busy and is bombarded with a lot of calls and letters. I am also very appreciative of this forum and Matthew Chan. The problem I have is that Oscar's letter to Getty has still not being sent. He promised he would send it within 48 hours of receiving the check and the letters , but that still has not happened. I have talked to his assistant three times and left messages for him and also sent two emails , all without answer. As I said , I truly appreciate him, but the fact is that when Getty sends you a 14-day escalation letter and Oscar offers his services , you would like the letter to be send out may be not in 48 hours, but within a reasonable time. It has put me on edge not knowing what happens facing a deadline. I didn't know what else to do , not getting an answer to my messages, that was why I discussed this on the forum.I really wish Oscar would send the letter to Getty as soon as possible and I do appreciate him taking my case.

[Matthew Chan]

Something is not right or something has fallen through the cracks if it has been that long. Perhaps he sent it out and you didn't get notified?

Oscar checks the forums and he will see your note here.

Matthew