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Messages - Statik

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1
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Possible to make generic letter available?
« on: December 18, 2009, 09:30:32 AM »
Here is the text I have prepared. Some of it is copied verbatim from Matthew's letter. Matthew, would you mind reading it over and letting me know if there is anything you'd like changed, or giving me permission to use portions of it. I wouldn't want to get into trouble for stealing your copyrighted material. :) Yes, I'm trying to be funny, but serious as well. I want to make sure you get the credit for all the hard work you have put into this.

Quote
15. Dec. 2009

Getty Images
601 N. 34th Street
Seattle, WA  98103

Reference #: 6070585
Case #: 940220

Dear Getty Images:

Thank you for your letter, dated 19 November, 2009, received 8 December, 2009, regarding an allegedly infringing images on secondary pages of our website.  You have brought to our attention these images actually belong to professional artist/photographers which you claim to represent, and thus they do not belong in the public domain.

I want you to know that I am treating this issue with the highest regard and attention.  I was quite shocked and horrified by your letter, not only because of the alleged infringement, but also by the aggressive and insulting tone. As a designer, my designs are copyrighted and the protection of my designs against infringement is important. I highly value the copyrights and intellectual property rights of all individuals.

I cannot apologize enough for this unfortunate circumstance.  When I had my website designed, I took pains to request only public domain images be used. I received assurances that every image on the website was not in anyway copyrighted or rights managed.  Despite the fact that this is very embarrassing, I also understand that the only way to peacefully resolve a problem is to acknowledge your issues and your concerns.  Better for me to be personally and professionally embarrassed than to have this matter be unnecessarily blown out of proportion.

I want you to know that within hours of my receiving your letter on 8 December, 2009, I had the offending images removed from my server. I can assure you that the use of the image was very much unintentional. I did not know, nor could have I reasonably known or discovered that they were not public domain images. I have yet to discover a free or inexpensive service that allows a company to have their website, or proposed website, scanned for potential copyright issues. As I am not a graphic designer, I am not familiar with which image services, such as your own, are available, nor would I be able to locate any image in these vast collections through visual means alone. There is simply no method available to me to check the source of the images provided to me by the graphic designer. I can only rely on the word of the alleged professional.

I have since done a second search through the Internet to try and discover a method of identifying the source of images that may have recently come available. I was not able to locate anything again. This means that I could not verify your claims independently. I could only verify that these images do exist in your catalogue.

I conducted an internal investigation with the original web programmer who placed the designs we received from the graphic designer onto the website, to clarify how and why this has happened. The short version is that I contracted the creation of the web template from a freelance web designer.  The designer has since left the continent.  As we guided the creative process in approving the web template styles we preferred, we were in no way associated with the acquisition or selection of individual elements for the template including the allegedly infringed images.  

In closing out this portion of the letter, you can be assured I have entirely deleted the allegedly infringing files from our web hosting server and will no longer be using them in any way. This in no way constitutes admission of purposeful infringement, nor of agreement with your claim to represent the artists involved. In the case of an alleged infringement, it is best to remove the items in question until the claim is settled.

At this point of the letter, I would like to focus on the tone and Settlement Demand portion of your letter.  While I most certainly understand and respect your need and right to protect your copyrights, there is generally a more cordial and professional way to do this.

Generally speaking, it is common business courtesy and practise to first issue a Cease and Desist letter allowing the alleged infringer the opportunity to correct the situation before threatening them.  In this case, either remove the copyrighted material, prove usage rights, or pay a reasonable fee for the license.

As a building designer and builder, with access to a photographer, I could have produced appropriate images for my website with ease. Because the graphic designer was in a distant location, I did not pursue creating my own images, but rather allowed the designer to locate public domain images that were appropriate. As a very small business, of which I am the sole proprietor, I could not afford even one of your images. I would not want one of your images. In fact, I directed the designer to not use images from services such as yourself. My budget for the entire website, both the design and the programming was less than the price you quote for one image.

Please understand that I am bringing this issue up to put your Settlement Demand in perspective.  This allegedly infringing image was one small element of a greater whole that was greatly changed and modified.  The low-resolution image was placed in a secondary page of a low-volume website for decorative purposes only, not marketing purposes.

I understand that you contend because the image was on our website, the photographer lost money and we should pay for the usage of it.  What I am telling you is, the photographers would never have earned any money from me in the first place because I would never have ordered any of these images on my own.  These images were not integral nor essential to the design of the website, only decorative accents.

I assert we did not order web images from the graphic designer, nor would we have approved of them if we had known their source.  We wanted and ordered a web template which happened to have “stolen” images components within it.  I would have been fine with a stylistic and creative template with no images whatsoever if it had been presented to me. In fact, it was the banner and menu background that was of importance to me, the accent images were not even part of my consideration.

I would like to point out that when criminal behaviour happens, everyone in society loses.  There are no winners.  My company has taken a loss and will take further loss to requisition and replace all our web template elements with something that is “certifiably” authentic, self-created, and/or licensed.  As such, it is unreasonable for you to expect someone to take a double loss so that Getty can “win”.  Without meaning to be condescending, any reasonable business person can see that.

For your company to assert an outrageous and extortionistic “settlement fee” in such unfortunate circumstances is highly distasteful and disturbing.  This action breeds much bad feelings and kills any goodwill your letter recipients may have had toward your company. Not only am I deterred from dealing with Getty Images, or any other such company, my friends in the industry who have heard of your practises are likewise deterred.

Recently there have been a large number of “settlement fee” emails and other money grabbing scams circulating. Your settlement letter, while exceptionally well put together, appears very similar. Since you claim to represent the photographers of these copyrighted images, you shouldn't mind sharing proof of copyright, and proof of a licencing agreement with the photographers in question. Otherwise, I only have your word that you have the right to even negotiate any “settlement”.

In addition, I would like to state that lack of a record with you does not mean a lack of right to use. As I have previously stated, I did not authorize the use of copyrighted material, however, as the designer has left the continent, I would not be able to verify that appropriate rights had been purchased. Just because you don't have a record for my company does not mean that I didn't have the right to use the images. Nor does my lack of proof mean that either.

Consider the following example:

While working in your garage one day, a representative for Canadian Tire comes by, enters your garage and recognizes several of their brand of tools in your collection. He presents you with an invoice for the rental of those tools for the past 2 years, at a monthly rate, since that is the earliest record they have of you using those tools. He states that unless you can produce a receipt for the purchase of those tools, you owe him the full balance of the invoice.

Does your lack of a receipt mean that you don't have the right to those tools? Does Canadian Tire have the right to invoice you if you don't have a receipt? If, in this case, you agree with Canadian Tire, that since you don't have a receipt, you should no longer use the tools, and stop using them, should Canadian Tire be assuaged?

I would like to share an analogy with you to illustrate one of my points with a scenario that frequently happens in the “real world”, shared with me by an acquaintance.

Pawn shops often buy DVD players and Video tape players (VCRs) both knowingly and unknowingly for re-sale.  There are clear laws that pawn shops should not buy suspected stolen goods.  But it happens anyway whether a pawn shop owner is honest or dishonest.  They sell those stolen players to an unsuspecting customer and they in turn “use” it to play movies in their homes thinking they are the rightful owners of the players.  

However, one day, law enforcement tracks down the stolen players to the unsuspecting customer's home, the police will confiscate the stolen players and return it to the rightful owner, no matter what the condition is.  When that happens, the unsuspecting customer clearly incurs a loss.  They get no refund or reimbursement from anyone unless the pawn shop voluntarily chooses to refund the money which isn't likely.

The rightful owner that had their players returned to them does not then go to the unsuspecting customer and insist they pay for any physical damages or rental fees for using the players.  They also do not sue them.  Why not?  Because the unsuspecting customer did not know nor did they have intent.  And when it is confirmed that it is stolen merchandise, it is returned.  Plus, it is simply bad form.

I fully understand that this argument does not exactly match infringement and copyright issues but it does the job.  I also understand the argument that if Getty Images did not take more aggressive steps toward everyone, there would be more piracy and infringements.  However, the flaw in your argument is that you are going after everyone, guilty or not guilty.  You are implying that the ends justify the means.  And you are basing it on your company's sensibilities and sense of right and wrong.  But you are not the judge, society and the courts are.  

The end does not justify the means.  In your efforts to “protect the photographers” and your company, Getty Images wants to steamroll over the legal and civil rights of others without due process?  You will presume guilt over innocence for every letter you send out?  This is highly inappropriate and unconscionable.  Anyone with any dignity or self-respect would not tolerate this.

Just as you seem to be aggressively pursuing your position in this matter, I am just as aggressive in defending my position.  Further, if I am aggressively provoked enough, you can be sure I will not simply defend this, I would take more proactive measures.  With this letter, I trust it will not come to anything more severe.

I cannot speak for anyone else except myself.  There may be many people who intentionally steal and use licensed images.  I am not one of them.  Forgive me but I don't accept your presumption of our financial responsibility of your so-called “losses” given these specific circumstances.  As I said, everyone loses when criminal behaviour happens.  I am already taking a loss without the “settlement fee”.  What makes your position more entitled for restitution and reparation than mine?  Anyone with common sense can see and understand this.  I believe if any judge were to hear this case and evaluate the overall context, intent, and actual damages (if any) your company incurred, it would strongly weigh in my company's favour.

At this point, I could go on endlessly explaining my position and you may still disagree.  I have done my research on Getty Images.  There is widespread information on the extortionistic tactics Getty Images uses in these matters.  In this regard, we are prepared.  Without getting into any specific statements, I just want to say I will not “roll over”.

I respect your company.  I respect your opinions.  I thank you for bringing the alleged infringement to my attention.  I promptly deleted the allegedly infringing images off the web server.  You have received this long letter with my best explanations I can give with assurances that this matter is closed.

We have further work and expenses to incur to replace the “work” we paid for but must now destroy.  This whole ordeal has already been frustrating and maddening.  But all of us have to move on.

It is my hope that we can both move forward from this unfortunate circumstance peacefully.  In closing, with this written reply, I consider this unfortunate matter and circumstance resolved and closed.

Thank you for your time, attention, and consideration of my explanations.

Respectfully,




All comments appreciated.

I am looking at sending this off Monday.

Thanks again all,

Rod

2
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: How they find you
« on: December 18, 2009, 08:58:18 AM »
Here is the response:

Quote
Rod:
Thank you for your interest in PicScout. In regards to your following question of do we offer a "service that allows a website to be scanned voluntarily, without reporting to the copyright holders...". At this time we do not offer that type of service. Our focus right now is using our image recognition technology to make sure "Every Image Gets Its Credit" where we can inform users, buyers at the point of experience who owns or is the licensor of the image(s). I would be glad to discuss those services with you.

Please let me know and we can schedule a call.

Thank you again for contacting PicScout.

Jeff Downey, Director of Sales
PicScout

Ph. 415-508-3697
Email: [email protected]



Jeff Downey
Director, Sales
& Business Development
PicScout, Ltd.
"Every Image Gets Its Credit"

Cell +1 312-735-6681 O +1 415-874-3222 [email protected]



And then I replied:

Quote
Thank you for your response.
 
I am not in the position to invest in your services at this time. My primary motive in contacting you is to discover a service like your own that allows current website owners who may have copyright infringing images on their websites without their knowledge to discover and correct these issues quickly. I'm sure you are aware that many of your advertised clients are contacting website owners with infringing images on their sites with invoices for the use of those images. The trouble with this is that many website owners had no knowledge that the images were infringing. They purchased image collections, purchased or used free web templates or contracted the design of their websites. Many of those took pains to ensure that their designs were not infringing only to find out that their proofs had been falsified.
 
I see a empty market for you to apply your technology to. Presently there is no method for website owners to independently verify that their websites contain infringing images. Even if they attempt to search the Internet for full images, the chances of them finding a modified image, possibly copyrighted with anyone of the major image sources, let alone the numerous independent photographers, is basically impossible. So there are a large number of website owners with possibly infringing images who have no way to find out if they have them or not. Their only options are to remove the entire unverified design, which may be perfectly legal, or hope that picscout doesn't visit them.
 
I realize that your company's revenues from such a service might not reach the magnitude of your 'take' from your client company's 'invoices', but your public perception might improve. This is also good for the artists. Individuals who want to ensure "Every Image Gets Its Credit" can discover which images belong where, who to give credit to and who to support. They also have the choice of which images to use. Some owners, given the choice, would not be using images that are infringing. However, they don't have that choice. They were told they aren't infringing, but then they find out differently. I'm sure that many legitimate business people would be glad to pay a reasonable fee to have an existing, or a proposed, website scanned by your service.Then they have the option of approaching the image rights holder to license the image, or removing the image.
 
I'm asking you to seriously consider the benefits to both your company, and the general populace of offering such a service.
 
Sincerely,
 
Rod Naugler


Not sure if we'll gain anything, but I'm sure we'll gain nothing if we don't try. :)

Rod

3
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Possible to make generic letter available?
« on: December 11, 2009, 06:30:05 PM »
Oh, I understand that it is far from an airtight argument. I was just asking to make sure it wasn't out in left field. :)
Some phrases are appropriate, some are effective, and some are inappropriate or just wrong. They might sound right in my ears, but to a lawyer or judge they might scream amateur or idiot. :)

Rod

4
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Strict Liability
« on: December 11, 2009, 10:48:44 AM »
Another aspect of the problem with the Getty demands is that they are stating that if you can't prove that you bought them, you stole them. A friend of mine gave me this example:

While working in your garage, a representative from Canadian Tire wanders in and takes note of all the Mastercraft tools you have. He asks you if you happen to have a receipt for the three year-old drill you are holding. When you can't produce one, he accuses you of having stole it, and bills you not only for the cost of the tool three years ago, but also the hourly rental rate from their tool shop, for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for three years.

Rediculous, no? But essentially the same as Getty. You can't prove you bought the image, therefore you stole it. In most cases, people do illegally own the image. In this case, you got the tools at a yardsale. You purchased used tools from someone who was moving away and have been using them 3 years. Unfortunately for you, the former 'owner' stole them. Now you find out they are stolen. Have people ever been charged rent or statutory damages for such a situation? Not to my knowledge. Generally you just lose the use of the tools.

Copyright law needs to come back into line with common sense (one of the great isn'ts, by the way. What do I mean? Common Sense - Isn't , Military Intelligence - Isn't, Friendly Fire - Isn't). The creator of the work needs to be protected. But the criminal in the case is the one who stole the image, not the one who innocently received the stolen goods.

To carry the example along further, if you are walking along in the mall, see the drill in the store window and walk off with it, you've stolen it. Plain and simple. If you are walking along the sidewalk and come across the drill in the middle of the street, is it stealing to take it? If you purchase the drill at a yardsale, have you stolen it? Logic and Getty seem to be at odds.

Rod

5
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: How they find you
« on: December 11, 2009, 09:43:03 AM »
FYI, I just emailed PicScout to ask if they offer a free or inexpensive, self-scan service that would allow a web developer to scan their own website voluntarily, and remove infringing images, without PicScout reporting back to the copyright holder. I'm awaiting a response.

Rod

6
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Letter scheme
« on: December 11, 2009, 08:17:24 AM »
How about I take a stab at answering the questions asked, even though the answers can be found by reading the site:

Quote
how do you claim to help these people with letter?

Oscar is a lawyer and agrees to act as the lawyer for anyone who takes advantage of his $150 letter deal. He drafts a letter specific to that one case, not a form letter, that he sends to Getty on the behalf of the client. This has two big advantages. 1. It is a professionally written letter backed by Oscar's education and experience in law. 2. From that moment on, Getty MUST deal with Oscar, not with the client, removing much of the stress from the client.

Quote
you send form letter for $150 and then claim if getty pursues legally you will represent for $150 p/h

This is a stupendous deal! As Oscar has explained above, he is not making money on the $150 per letter, merely covering the costs of his employees. Obviously Oscar can volunteer his time, but he can not volunteer the time of his employees. Someone has to pay him. It is one thing to donate ones time to a cause, another to invest $150 of your own money for every letter.
I understand that to most people who make only double digits per hour or 5 figure salaries ( I am one ), this may seem like a large pricetag, but compare it to the going market value and you can see the extreme difference. Its like finding a brand new Mercedes, with a market value of $450,000 for sale for $150,000. Yes, $150,000 is expensive for a car compared to a $20,000 Dodge, but its not a Dodge, its a Mercedes that every other dealer sells for $450,000. This is the value of Oscar's offer.
In addition to that, Oscar answers so many questions on this forum for free. I have looked for legal advice online before and have never found a real lawyer who was willing to answer legal questions for free. One website had lawyers bidding to answer, and I could choose who I wanted to answer, but answers to even simple questions cost $30. Oscar is answering for free. Don't easily discount his contributions here.

Quote
If getty filed 100 of these at once how would you defend?

Oscar has answered this above, but lets also look at your claim that this is a reasonable question. Seeing as Getty has not yet filed one case on this issue (according to Oscar, I don't have the resources to verify this), the chances of them filing 100 cases at once, and having all of them reach the courts at the same time, is slim. Every court system is loaded at different levels and progresses at different speeds. As well, as Oscar has pointed out, he's not the only lawyer available, and the possiblity exists of getting others involved at the same rate. Since the situation has not arisen even once, it hasn't been necessary to set it up.

Quote
it sounds like you are taking advantage of people .

It only sounds like that if you are expecting them to help everyone for free. A workmen is worthy his wages. Oscar doesn't have to offer anything in the way of discount, yet he is. How is it taking advantage of people?

Quote
please explain your process

This is explained in Oscar's page, which is also the homepage of the site. Read the right-hand orange box.

I hope this answers your questions.

Rod Naugler

7
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Possible to make generic letter available?
« on: December 10, 2009, 07:18:36 PM »
Thanks for the responses Matthew and Oscar.

Oscar, do you feel that the phrasing I mentioned, "did not know, nor could reasonably have known" be of use in a Getty Response letter?
I think that part of the basic case against Getty is that people made an effort to get non-copyright infringing images, yet failed, were misled, or succeeded but no longer have the records to prove it. I know that in my brother's case, the images had been cropped, colored and blended with other elements of the website. There was no reasonable way for him to check the copyright information independent of the designer. Surely the Canadian and American law system must allow some leniency for someone who makes a reasonable effort?

Thanks again,

Rod

8
Getty Images Letter Forum / Possible to make generic letter available?
« on: December 10, 2009, 12:11:21 PM »
Hi all,

I am new to the site, although I have now read a good portion of it. I have a couple of questions:

1. Is there a summary of CANADIAN cases similar to the US summary available?
2. Matthew, can we use your letter on record (extortionletterinfo.com/mycase.htm) as a model?
3. Oscar, would the phrasing "did not know, nor could reasonably have known", borrowed from harrassment cases, be of use in these dealings?

I used to be a web developer. About 7 years ago, my brother contracted a graphic designer that I recommended to design his site and I was responsible for implimenting the design. This Monday, my brother received the first stage Getty letter. It claimed 3 images at $750 a piece, with the ever-present 10% discount. As a small business owner, my brother would not be able to pay this fee ($2025). I advised him to immediately take down the images, which he had already done. I have since advised him to approach archive.com and the others to have the archives removed as well.
I would like to send Getty a letter similar to Matthew's and try to resolve the issue. My company has not existed for over a year and the graphic designer has been out of the contenant for 5 years.
I don't mind creating the generic letter and sharing it with the group. I'm asking if this is permitted and if Oscar would like to comment on it.

Thanks for all your efforts!

Rod Naugler

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