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Messages - SoylentGreen

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1036
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Letter from Getty
« on: September 08, 2011, 04:49:31 PM »
Yeah, I agree with mcfilms.  It's a price-gouging scheme for the most part.
Who the hell is "Tony Stone" anyway?  lol.

S.G.


1037

MediaNews won't renew contract with "copyright enforcer" Righthaven

"It's a model that isn't working very well for us," she said. "It's something we felt was important to try because we are committed to protecting copyright, but it hasn't worked the way we expected."

- MediaNews vice president of field operations Sara Glines

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18846816


S.G.


1038
There's plenty of forums wherein music and movie copyrights are discussed.
It's been discussed and argued over and over.  It's been beaten to death.  I prefer not to discuss these issues here.
But there's nothing to stop you from doing so; but it may not be of interest to most readers who come to the forum about images, however.
I don't know what else to tell you.

I get your point about registering other people's images.
This may become a problem in the future if it hasn't already.
But, that doesn't change the fact that court cases in the US in Canada really hinge on copyright registrations.

I only said that improper registration offers a loophole for alleged infringers and the Muensch case bears this out.
A proper registration (not in bulk and lists the actual author) is more difficult to fight.
But, I'll say it again; a person or other entity can sue for anything at any time for any reason.

The multiplication factor that you speak of would only be available through statutory damages in the US/Canada.
Statutory damages can only be sought for registered images.

I also think that we're getting off topic in terms of what this forum is intended for and the pricing issue.
The vast majority of alleged infringements that GI/MF and Corbis pursue are at the lower end of the scale.
We could pick any image that we want and say, "look at how expensive that is."
But, we're not really dealing with those sorts of images.

As I mentioned before, I'm really only interested in US/Canada infringement issues.
I'm not challenging anything that you mentioned about countries other than US/Canada.
I don't know much about those laws at this point.

S.G.



1039
In the US/Canada, a proper registration does imply copyright.
Yes, one could argue in a court that the copyright registrant has registered the content fraudulently.  However, that's difficult to prove in most cases.
If one is taken to court, and the defence is "the plaintiff registered fraudulently", then you have to prove why that's the case.
It's pretty rare to have this come up.

An improper registration in the states is one such as in the Muench case.
One could fight a suit on those grounds.

Anyone can sue anybody else for anything.  Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that the litigant has a case that could win, or even one that the court would hear.
Some use lawsuits to harass others into paying.  But they back off before a court date if they know that they can't win.

The problem with litigating over unregistered images is that the litigant would only get the retail purchase price of the image in the event of a court win.
The kind of images that we're concerned with on this forum usually only cost between 10 and 300 dollars at most retail.
So, a lawsuit over such amounts over unregistered images (or improperly registered images) is really pointless given what it costs to litigate.

I think that comparing the music and movie industries to infringements of images on the Internet is like comparing apples to oranges.
But, if you have something to add in this regard that's valid I'm sure that nobody will object.
There's lobbying going on in the states right now including the desire to make music piracy a felony for example.
But it's just speculative at this point and doesn't mean much.  Unless it's "law" we'd be wasting our breath debating it.

Again, I don't know much about UK laws, and it's out of my sphere of interest.
But, I'm sure that we can both agree that different countries/regions have different laws and what is true in one region is not necessarily true in another.
Personally, my interest is in the US/Canada and infringements over images.
If you add more about UK laws, I'm sure that it will enrich the forum and help others.

S.G.

1040
Thanks for the links; good reading.

Allowing Righthaven to change its agreements with Stephens Media, and then letting them sue the alleged infringers again won't work.
Even if the judge(s) rule "without prejudice" in the Righthaven suits and they could re-try the infringment cases, that wouldn't change the fact that Righthaven didn't have copyright standing at the time of the infringement.
I cannot see how any change in the contractual agreements would be retroactive.

S.G.


1041
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Class Action - Here's The Cause of Action
« on: September 03, 2011, 12:59:25 PM »
Just a quick note here.

I don't want to 'praise' the stock image industry or anything.
But, Picscout does work pretty well.  Even if an infringing image is scanned from printed materials, Picscout can match it to the original photo.
It's said that Picscout can often match even modified or cropped photos to the originals.  Some forum participants have experienced this personally, if I recall correctly.

We can probably agree that the laws do not state that the author or owner of an image must put copyright info on or in the meta-data of an image.
The opposite is also true in that it's not illegal to put identifying information into an image.

But, I do think that seeding images around the web, to make images look like 'public domain' would be a cause for action.
We should watch for this, because I do feel that it's happened in the past, and will increase in the near future.
I don't know that the big companies have done this, personally.  But, i've heard some things from third parties about a handful of 'photogs' doing this.
But, I can't prove it myself.

On the other side of this, it's best to err on the side of caution, as most everything is owned by somebody.  Even if it says that it's "free".

Those are just my opinions.

S.G.







1042
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Class Action - Here's The Cause of Action
« on: September 02, 2011, 07:16:06 PM »
Thanks for an interesting post.

So, what you are saying is that while the trolls don't put any copyright metadata in their images, they do put data in them that their 'bots' can recognize easily?
In addition, are you also stating that the trolls 'seed' these images intentionally in order to potentially cause infringements?

Thanks,

S.G.


1043
Thanks buddhapi!!

Yes, they do download everything it seems.  Including news articles (Righthaven anyone?), and books.

Imagine that somebody got a demand letter from Getty.
But then the "infringer" replied with a demand for 100,000 dollars for the 100 images that Piscout downloaded.
Then get one of those lawyers that allegedly works on contingency to send further demand for another 100,000 dollars when they don't pay on time.
Next, threaten to sue for $500,000 including statutory damages. LOL.
Naturally, I wouldn't actually encourage anyone to harass Getty; I just like the thought of it.

S.G.

1044
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: I guess I'm one of them now!
« on: September 02, 2011, 12:56:08 PM »
Thanks for the info!!

I had to do something similar once; an advertising agency that we worked with scooped one of our sites and stuck it into their portfolio as their own work.
Like you, I didn't seek any money.

S.G.



1045
Getty/Picscout: The WORST COPYRIGHT INFRINGERS EVER CREATED

Many of us are aware of what Getty’s ‘Picscout ‘ is and also the basic premise of how it works.

http://www.lesphotographes.com/2011/05/29/picscout-protects-image-copyright-the-first-digital-fingerprints-for-photography/

---


I feel that Picscout violates one of the five ‘pillars’ of copyright (17 – USC  - 106) as follows:

The very first condition: 1) To reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords

That is, only the copyright owner has the exclusive right to reproduce copies of a work.  A violation of any of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder is a “copyright infringement”.

Picscout downloads images from the Internet en masse.  It is indiscriminate; many of these images are formally copyrighted by other parties.
Because Picscout downloads the images and stores them on a retrieval system (hard disk) in order to process them, they are in fact making illegal copies of copyrighted materials on a regular basis.

Traffic logs of Websites visited by Picscout will clearly show IP addresses associated with them, the dates/times and which images were downloaded.

Some may say that their own Web browser does the same thing every day, and what of Google cataloging images?  These are covered by “fair use”, DMCA provisions, and the fact that a link to an image outside of one’s own site is not an infringement.
I don’t think that Picscout is covered by these exceptions.

Picscout’s actions can be assumed to be willful, as no effort is made to discriminate between images owned by Getty and images owned by other parties (…”acted in reckless disregard of those rights” Brown v. McCormick 87 F.Supp.2d 467, 482 [D.Md.2000]). All images are downloaded intentionally by Picscout.
Indeed, I think that this is also why the copyright trolls pursue even “orphaned files” (that exist on a server, but don’t appear on a website) as copyright infringements.  One need only make an electronic copy to be an infringer.

---


Clearly, Picscout downloads copyrighted images for use in a business that employs them as part of a revenue stream for Getty images and other independent clients.
Whether or not money is made from a particular image that has been downloaded is irrelevant.
Copyright law has been broken, and damages can be sought under section 17 USC – 504, along with legal fees and other costs under section 17 USC – 505.

---


This would apply to copyright images only.  However, consider a situation where an image (or many images) that were copyrighted in “bulk” were downloaded by Picscout.
Could Getty argue that the copyright registration was invalid because the images were registered in bulk?  Perhaps.  But then they would be “on the record” saying that this method is invalid.
This is the very same method that they use to register most of their own images.

I’m quite sure that Picscout has copied the entire collection of Corbis and Masterfile images several times over.

---


If an entity were to win on the basis of this in court, then every copyrighted image that Picscout downloaded in the preceding three years was technically a copyright infringement.  
Furthermore, any future downloads of copyrighted material by Picscout is technically a copyright infringement.

---


Getty has a huge investment in Picscout, and they make a lot of revenue from “infringements”, so they would fight back vigorously.  Or, they’d pay a settlement to avoid making a court precedent that others could use against them.  But, I do feel that a large company could take this on (that’s why Getty doesn’t often harass such companies).  Or, perhaps it could be part of a large “class action”.

Now, no attorney is going to log onto the Web and say "Yes!  Do this.".  They're very careful about anything speculative.  But think about it.

Just my thoughts.

S.G.


1046
LOL.  No, no letters.
The picture's called "surprised guy".  It's a meme, or image macro.
It appears in many thousands of places on the Internet, so it's basically impossible to police it.
It's a screen cap from some TV show or movie.  So, I doubt that Getty or other trolls would own the rights.
But, yeah.  Everything's an 'infringement'

You can try an image search on Google to see how times it appears on the Web; it's quite popular.



I need to ask Mr Chan to look into my avatar issues.

S.G.


1047
I don't really get it, either.
From the info provided, it appears that Arius3d with perform a "due diligence investigation" and seek financing after signing an agreement with a termination clause.
Seems a bit risky.

S.G.


1048
Good one, Buddhapi.  Heh.  I always knew that Getty was "taking the piss".
Really funny.

MikeD, I suspect that this is already happening.
Images have been seeded all over the place, even by so-called 'legit' photogs.
We'll hear of them pouncing on people pretty soon, I think.

Yeah, my 'avatar' is still awol.
I can't seem to find the controls to add an 'avatar' on the profile console.
Maybe I was just too 'good-looking'?

S.G.



1049
This is a good point, I think.

Some folks have brought up the subject of exclusive agreements on the forum before.
I think that the images that you mentioned are probably licensed non-exclusively.
So, the photogs can market the images to whomever they want, but they probably makes less money from licensing.
It's likely difficult to chase infringements on these; but they might try it.  It's basically a sleazy business.
Now that I think of it, it's a good idea to search around to find out if others are selling the image if one is accused of infringement.

S.G.

1050
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A purely hypothetical question
« on: August 31, 2011, 03:18:58 PM »
Here's quite an interesting tidbit from US law (as explained on Wikipedia):

Definition of "copy"
 
Several important rights exist under the United States copyright law only for “copies” of works — material objects in which the work is embodied.[13] Section 106(1) prohibits the reproduction only of copies of works, and section 106(3) prohibits the distribution only of copies of works.[14] Thus, as the Ninth Circuit held in Perfect 10, Inc. v. Amazon.com, Inc., a link (even a deep link or inline link) to an image does not involve reproduction of a copy of the image by the person on whose web page the link appears.[15] An instruction to a browser to jump to an URL is not a reproduction or distribution of a copy of what is at the referenced URL.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States

I think that this means that actual copying and distribution of content are infringements.  But, content that is only linked to on the Web is not considered an actual copy, nor is it a form of distribution.

S.G.


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