Messages

106

UK Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Help! Debt collection letter arrived

« on: July 10, 2012, 10:19:52 AM »

This is definitely a debt collection. You can tell by the last paragraph discussing the option of a payment plan. Something you have to offer as a debt collector here in the UK.

None of the letters from lawyers I've seen have ever mentioned that and I've read here and elsewhere that if you speak to Getty directly they refuse the option of a payment plan.

Of interest is their threat of legal action. The only action a debt collector can take is to first issue a CCJ which is only effective in damaging your credit history. They also couldn't pursue you for copyright infringement because Getty hasn't assigned them the right to or they'd have to have told you that and provided proof.

I would recommend phoning the Office of Fair Trading and discussing the letter received and whether it is within their guidelines. If it is not the OFT are usually quite good at taking action and can revoke a licence.

107

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A new collection Agency working with getty

« on: July 10, 2012, 06:16:12 AM »

Looking through the Office of Fair Trading overarching principles of fair business practice for companies collecting debts they do state the following:

companies should be transparent in their dealings with debtors and others – information provided should be clear and should not be confusing or misleading.

It could be stated that a debt collection letter with only a passing reference to what the debt is they are collecting without any further information is not very transparent.

and

treat debtors fairly – debtors should not be subjected to aggressive practices, inappropriate coercion, or conduct which  is deceitful, oppressive, unfair or improper, whether unlawful or not

Threatening court action is definitely unfair as they must know that no debt actually exists and Getty couldn't prove it without a court order. As far as I can tell they have no authority to take you to court for the alleged infringement themselves, only Getty can do that so what they have stated is also deceitful. They wouldn't get away with the excuse that it's a standard template.

Depends whether you think a complaint to the OFT will make them back off or annoy them enough to try to take further action.

108

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A new collection Agency working with getty

« on: July 10, 2012, 05:34:50 AM »

UK Debt collection law states they must supply you with information on your debt if requested. If you requested it they couldn't simply state that Getty had provided it earlier but they can probably get away with it in their initial communication.

If you did request it and they didn't provide it they couldn't contact you again requesting payment. If they don't have the proof they'd have to go back to Getty and get it. If they did have it all along you could certainly question why it wasn't provided at outset....and round and round you go.

109

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty For sale

« on: July 09, 2012, 10:42:09 AM »

The potential buyers are private equity firms. They would have already done sufficient research into Getty's activities and most private equity firms only care about profit, not ethics.

The one avenue I thought might be worth a look is checking their accounts with companies house and seeing if it listed how much of it's income was through settlements.

Only problem there is if they are approaching settlements as retrospective licences they may just list that as normal income which would include income from genuine sales.

It may be the case that a potential buyer may not be aware of how much of the income on Getty's accounts is through "retrospective licences" which is an unsustainable business model and open to legal challenge.

If you want to approach potential buyers in private equity approach it from the angle of their bottom line, not their ethical approach.

110

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A new collection Agency working with getty

« on: July 09, 2012, 10:28:54 AM »

By the looks of it they are trying to reach an agreement on the basis that you have used their image and want to charge you for that use. So at first it's neither a debt nor a claim but a sale.

They are operating in such a grey area that I bet if most of their cases did go to court they'd have been put out of business long ago.

111

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A new collection Agency working with getty

« on: July 09, 2012, 06:05:13 AM »

Isn't Getty now attempting to charge for a retrospective licence rather than collect on an infringement and that is why they are adding sales tax where applicable? It's definitely what they are doing in Europe because they add VAT which you can't do on a settlement for infringement.

If that is the case then it's a debt they are chasing and anyone chasing it should adhere to the appropriate laws.

112

Getty Images Letter Forum / Getty For sale

« on: July 06, 2012, 09:23:54 AM »

Apparently.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/04/us-getty-images-idUSBRE8621CZ20120704

Perhaps we could have a whip round and make a cheeky bid.

113

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Recieved a demand letter today.. What do you think of my response?

« on: July 03, 2012, 10:40:27 AM »

Everybody needs to remember 2 things here:
1. Picscout operates out of Israel, hence they don't play by US rules
2. Picscout scans for imges and would never "read" any disclaimer

Unless your hoping to get business from Israel, it's easiest to just block israel altogether at the server level, if you can't do this yourself, your web-host should be able to do it for you..Albeit you may have to get a dedicated IP.

That's assuming Picscout doesn't operate through proxy servers as well.

114

UK Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Letter from Getty's solicitors re. Getty settlement demand (London, uk)

« on: July 02, 2012, 06:51:47 AM »

Getty Victim,

The only direct experience I have, of which I was not personally involved but knew the person who was, ended when the person made a final offer and informed Getty's lawyer that they had remitted that amount to their own lawyer which would be sent to them when they confirmed acceptance of the offer. The amount was fairly close to what they had asked for. That was about 7ish months ago I think.

Surprisingly there was no reply that the offer had been accepted or rejected so the person I know consider the matter closed and will enter into no further correspondence.

If I were in your position personally I'd write to their lawyer and say that Getty having the "exclusive" rights to the image does not actually give them exclusivity, they have acted in good faith that the photographer is being honest and also that the photographer actually owns the copyright. I'd state that being asked to pay a large amount of money means I am not willing to extend the same good faith and so documentation will be required to prove that the photographer who claims the rights to the image actually does own the copyright and proof by way of a signed letter that the photographer has given exclusive rights to Getty and that while assigned to Getty that have never licensed the image elsewhere.

There is no right or wrong way to handle this but you have to understand that anything but paying the full settlement means, however unlikely, that they can file suit against you.

Your reply should not be based on what you solely read here because ultimately you are dealing with it yourself. If you have the stomach for the fight because you honestly believe you have done nothing wrong then your next move will be very different if you either don't have the stomach for a fight or took the image from the web yourself without regard for the copyright.

115

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: My Response Letter to NCS

« on: June 25, 2012, 12:02:29 PM »

This is a business model. Any business model from a company as large as Getty will have an element of research & development and ongoing testing. I'm sure they didn't spend a lot of money investing in Picscout just to have a jumbled approach. There is obviously serious money in this approach so there must be at least a rough outline of a business plan.

Perhaps the approach is slightly simpler in that internal interns will take the first x amount of copyright cases, lawyers the next x amount and any spillage goes to a debt recovery company.

This is of course all speculative but usually there is method in the madness where so much money is involved.

116

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: My Response Letter to NCS

« on: June 25, 2012, 11:07:21 AM »

Looks to me to be a classic performance measuring exercise.

After initial contact from Getty trying to obtain settlement, divide the remaining claims between different approaches, see which ones bring in the most money so they can focus on that while still using the other approaches on a smaller scale.

How you get divided is probably pot luck and depends which 'copyright enforcer' your claim gets passed to.

117

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A puzzling situation

« on: June 21, 2012, 07:53:55 AM »

Question:

If what PuzzleGuy says is true in that he has licensed these to sell and the manufacturer has confirmed they have a valid license to print these and Getty still insists he infringed does that mean if Getty was caught with a copyrighted image on their website, uploaded by somebody who didn't actually own the copyright, their agreement with the photographer would also then not remove their liability to damages or have I made a connection that isn't there?

118

Hawaiian Letters & Lawsuits Forum / Re: Copyright Services International / HAN Case

« on: June 19, 2012, 09:13:23 AM »

You can also use Alt + Prt Scr to capture only the active window instead of the entire screen.

Usually quite handy.

119

Hawaiian Letters & Lawsuits Forum / Re: Copyright Services International / HAN Case

« on: June 19, 2012, 05:16:24 AM »

'Prt Scr' button on your keyboard will take a screen shot. You'll then need to open something like microsoft paint and then edit & paste to copy the picture. You can then save the image to your computer.

120

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty Images Extortion Letter with Sales Tax

« on: June 19, 2012, 05:12:36 AM »

Here is a definitive list of what is required to charge VAT:

What a VAT invoice must show
A VAT invoice must show:
an invoice number which is unique and follows on from the number of the previous invoice - if you spoil or cancel a serially numbered invoice, you must keep it to show to a VAT officer at your next VAT inspection
the seller's name or trading name, and address
the seller's VAT registration number
the invoice date
the time of supply (also known as tax point) if this is different from the invoice date - see below
the customer's name or trading name, and address
a description sufficient to identify the goods or services supplied to the customer
For each different type of item listed on the invoice, you must show:
the unit price or rate, excluding VAT
the quantity of goods or the extent of the services
the rate of VAT that applies to what's being sold
the total amount payable, excluding VAT
the rate of any cash discount
the total amount of VAT charged

The Getty letter I have seen does not mention what rate of VAT applies, a VAT registration number or a sequential invoice number. They also don't mention the VAT for each item, just a total VAT with no VAT rate.

The letter is a couple of years old now so not sure if their practice has changed but if their letters are still unchanged I think we can see why no cases go to court here in the UK.