Click Official ELI Links
Get Help With Your Extortion Letter | ELI Phone Support | ELI Legal Representation Program
Show your support of the ELI website & ELI Forums through a PayPal Contribution. Thank you for supporting the ongoing fight and reporting of Extortion Settlement Demand Letters.

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Oscar Michelen

Pages: 1 ... 76 77 [78] 79 80 ... 82
1156
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: But we did license it...
« on: November 07, 2008, 10:17:06 PM »
Many of my clients have told me they are in the same situation.  One of them who spoke to Getty before contacting me told him that Getty wanted to see the printed End User License Agreement as if anyone prints that out, let alone reads it! Sometimes  you can trace the image as having been sold on a CD.  Getty has bought numerous companies that sold photo cds and then stopped issuing the cds.   As far as what you should do just take a look through the threads to get some info.  For one image you are not likely to be sued. In fact Getty has never sued anyone since they started this program in 2005. You have a lot of potential defenses so I would not panic, get educated by reading the site and don't settle with them.

1157
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty Letter received today, help!!!
« on: November 05, 2008, 02:55:24 PM »
There is no "right" or "Wrong" way to deal with this only because no one case has ever gone to conclusion. Either the website user settles or Getty lets it go for a year or so. I think the above post from Gettysucks is very informative.  They claim they only provide that proof in litigation - but they have never gone into litigation so what are they talking about? Either the image is copyright registered or it is not.  If Getty will not provide direct proof of registration then I would consider it unregistered. If the image is registered: Copyright law allows a federal court to reduce the damages to $200 per image - for innocent infringement. I have posted some language from federal decisions on this site to show that this is the routine response as courts do not like big companies doing this to innocent infringers; so while it is correct to say that innocent infringement is no defense to copyright infringement it is fact that the party's knowledge plays a critical role on the issue of damages. So if the image is registered I would recommend offering $200 per image as a final number.

If the image is not registered (as is almost always the case) they cannot get statutory damages and legal fees They can only get what the market would pay for the image (their "actual damages" In most cases that would be $49 per image. So offer $100 per image to show good faith and avoid a problem. Getty will likely accept neither anyway. Remember that if these images were placed on other sites by the photographer then you may owe no money in damages as you could have downloaded it from one of the other sites.

The main thing you get from having me send a letter is that they will no longer contact you or "put you into collection" through NCS Recovery. (Make sure you read the thread about that on this forum as well).  So it is entirely up to you how to proceed. I welcome any other comments or suggestions.

1158
UK Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: UK Just got a letter from Getty
« on: November 05, 2008, 02:46:52 PM »
There is no "right" or "Wrong" way to deal with this only because no one case has ever gone to conclusion. Either the website user settles or Getty lets it go for a year or so. Our position on this site for US cases is clear : Either the image is copyright registered or it is not. That is the first step to determine. If Getty will not provide direct proof of registration then I would consider it unregistered. If the image is registered: Copyright law allows a federal court to reduce the damages to $200 per image - for innocent infringement. I have posted some language from federal decisions on this site to show that this is the routine response as courts do not like big companies doing this to innocent infringers; so while it is correct to say that innocent infringement is no defense to copyright infringement it is fact that the party's knowledge plays a critical role on the issue of damages. So if the image is registered I would recommend offering $200 per image

If the image is not registered (as is almost always the case) they cannot get statutory damages and legal fees They can only get what the market would pay for the image (their "actual damages" In most cases that would be $49 per image. So offer $100 per image to show good faith and avoid a problem. Getty will likely accept neither anyway.

Remember that if these images were placed on other sites by the photographer then you may owe no money in damages as you could have downloaded it from one of the other sites.

Now for UK cases I would recommend you go to the FSB forum that is linked onour haome page.  There is a great discussion going on there about this issue.  All I want to add about UK cases is that the UK copyright law specifically states that courts do not award damages for innocent infringement

1159
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty Letter received today, help!!!
« on: November 04, 2008, 09:37:42 AM »
The last post is good advice.  This forum has attracted many others like yourself and it has provided them with the information they need to address this issue. Do not engage Getty any further.  The next step will be that you will contacted by NCS Recovery (their alleged collection agency).  There is a post here that discusses what to do when you get to that stage as well.
So read the site, get informed and feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

1160
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: My lawyer said I have to pay Getty
« on: November 04, 2008, 09:34:36 AM »
I don't think they are going to go after someone for just one image. The info about allposters is good to know as one of our arguments if anyone ever gets brought to court is that "actual damages" should be market value and not Getty's inflated value.

1161
I can answer the first and last question but not the middle one (at least not without some translation) Getty's position everywhere else and I am sure in Switzerland as well  is to deal only with the end-user and not the developer. I think part of the reason for that is to cause additional stress by contacting the person who has no idea how the site was built. So no matter how much you tell them to deal with youdirectly they are likely to ignore that and keep contacting the customer.  What you can do is advise the customer that this is their standard procedure and promise to take care of it yourself.  We know represent somewhere around 40-45 clients for whom we have issued letters.  One-third of those who hired us are developers hiring us on behalf of their customers.  We then send Getty the letter on behalf of both the developer and the end-user.

As to the second question - I obviously agree that this is the best course of action.  Try to convince some lawyer in your country to model a letter program like ours,they canlink to our site and I would be glad to discuss our Getty experince with them. Believe me if there are three of you from Switzerland who found this site, there are hundreds of you across your country who need this help. And while it is not profitable at US$150 per letter, it has been a great experience and I have many businesses that now consider me their lawyer and I amsure will lead to more business.  Besides it is also the right thing to do.

1162
There is also a lot of info regarding Moreton Smith on the great FSB discussion forum that is referenced on our home page. Moreton Smith is also handling this for Getty in the UK and it has been going on there since about 2005.  (No lawsuits filed there yet either by the way). The FSB forum has pages and pages of info and good discussion about what is happening in England and about Moreton Smth. Good Luck!

1163
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Letter scheme
« on: November 03, 2008, 01:46:22 AM »
I have already answered this question and do not want to further detail every part of my action plan since I am sure Getty is monitoring this site.  But here is what I said to essentially the same question a few posts back:


If Getty began to file suits all over the country, I already have a plan of action for that in the event that I cannot handle all the cases. I don't want to go into detail, but every State has at least one law school with an intellectual property or litigation clinic. l have already been in contact with some. I am confident they would be willing to take on the defense in their State.


Hope this answers this question for you.

1164
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: My lawyer said I have to pay Getty
« on: November 03, 2008, 01:42:25 AM »
There is no "right" or "Wrong" way to deal with this only because no one case has ever gone to conclusion.   Either the website  user settles or Getty lets it go for a year or so. Our position on this site is clear :  Either the image is copyright registered or it is not.  That is the first step to determine. If Getty will not provide direct proof of registration then I would consider it unregistered.  If the image is registered:  Copyright law allows a federal court to reduce the damages to $200 per image - for innocent infringement.  I have posted some language from federal decisions on this site to show that this is the routine response as courts do not like big companies doing this  to innocent infringers;  so while it is correct to say that innocent infringement is no defense to copyright infringement it is  fact that the party's knowledge plays a critical role on the issue of damages.  So if the image is registered I would recommend offering $200 per image  

If the image is not registered (as is almost always the case) they cannot get statutory damages and legal fees They can only get what the market would pay for the image (their "actual damages") In most cases that would be $49 per image. So offer $100 per image to show good faith and avoid a problem.  

Getty will likely accept neither anyway.

Remember that if these images were placed on other sites by the photographer then you may owe no  money in damages as you could have downloaded it from one of the other sites.

1165
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Is this sound legal advice?
« on: November 03, 2008, 01:34:04 AM »
Only thing I want to add to last post is to look up our topic on this forum on "collection" They cannot put you into collection This is not a debt it is a claim There is a big difference

1166
In an effort to keep you guys updated on trends in copyright law, I wanted to tell you about Faulkner v. National Geographic a case decided herein NY last month that completely supports our position on Getty.  I'd be glad to summarize it for you. Photographers sued National Geographic for using their unregistered images without permission. They had given permission for some form of media but not for use in CDROMs etc. They sought all kinds of punitive damages and asked for "multipliers" based on the use and re-use of the image in the future since the CD ROMS were distributed in the marketplace.

While the court did not rule on what would have been fair compensation (it left that for a later trial) it ruled that (1) it has long been the law that statutory damages are not available as the images were not registered; (2) plaintiffs could only get actual damages (3) evidence of willfulness is therefore irrelevant and (4) while it didn't give an amount, the decision makes clear that the court believed $1,320 per image was likely the best plaintiffs would get. Its important to note the court talked about that number because (for whatever reason) Nat'l Geographic did not contest plaintiff's evidence that this was a reasonable license fee.   Here are some snippets from Judge Lewis Kaplan's decision:

Plaintiff may not pursue statutory damages here because he did not register his claims to copyright in the photographs in question before the start of the alleged infringement. See, e.g., Mannion v. Coors Brewing Co., 530 F.Supp.2d 543, 554 (S.D.N.Y.2008); 17 U.S.C. § 412. His claim therefore is limited to “actual damages” under 17 U.S.C. § 504(a).

The Second Circuit (THE NY APPELLATE FEDERAL COURT)  has made abundantly clear that “[p]unitive damages are not available in statutory copyright infringement actions.” Accordingly, the plaintiff's punitive damages claim is stricken.

As I have concluded above, the Copyright Act limits recovery in this case to “actual damages” and does not permit recovery of punitive damages. Whatever the industry may do or believe as a matter of voluntary and consensual practice does not trump Congress' limitation of damages for infringement in this case to actual damages.

I feel compelled to make one additional point. What plaintiff is entitled to here is actual damages, one measure of which is a reasonable license fee that would have been arrived at between a willing licensor and a willing licensee.  Plaintiff Psihoyos here claims infringement of copyright in five images. Were Mr. Dauman's (THE PLAINTIFFS EXPERT)   theory of damages accepted, he would be entitled to damages of more than $900,000. And that is just a drop in the bucket. Mr. Dauman's theory, applied to plaintiff Ward, who claimed infringement with respect to 532 images and whose case has been dismissed on other grounds, would have yielded damages to Mr. Ward of more than $96 million.

Indeed, he (THE EXPERT) conceded at his deposition that “had they sought permission ahead of time the cost per picture was $1,350.”

Some sense of rationality must prevail in the law. Certainly if photographers doing this sort of work commanded such compensation in the real world, one would have expected Mr. Dauman to have said so. But there is nothing in this record to suggest that figures such as these are at all reasonable.

1167
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Template Monster and Getty - my story
« on: October 26, 2008, 10:29:49 PM »
that would be great and very helpful as we compile as much info on this situation as possible

1168
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Spread the word
« on: October 26, 2008, 04:00:24 PM »
Thanks for your support  It is appreciated!

1169
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: new info on Getty
« on: October 25, 2008, 12:40:22 PM »
What was the date of registration? By the way, registration does not hurt our cause at all. The Copyright Act of 1976 specifically allows a court to reduce all damages to $200 per infringement for "innocent infringement."  I have posted some language from federal decisions showing that judges aren't big fans of big corporations going after small innocent infringers

1170
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: How much will Getty Settle for?
« on: October 25, 2008, 12:37:08 PM »
Let me answer these in order:  
(1) Has the letter worked? It depends on what you mean by "worked"? Does Getty roll over once they get my letter and settle for $100? No of course not. But the letter does stop them from communicating with you directly and putting you "in  collection" with NCS Recovery, their "collection agency." It also provides a feeling of community in that you are not fighting Getty alone and are joined with dozens and dozens of other businesses that have tried to address their concerns in this fashion.  We are not communicating with Getty at a high level. Forums all across the world have referenced our approach and are watching to see what will happen next with Getty. On one popular forum, there are discussions  about engaging Getty  in a global settlement discussion of the hard issues in the case. But the main benefit of the letter is having their communication cut off and the endless chain of emails and letters ending.  
(2) How much lower have they gone? - To my knowledge the lowest I have heard them accept is around $800 per image.  Someone reported to me they accepted $500 per image but I have not recovered any proof of that.
I do not think they will likely sue a single image user so you have the option of ignoring it and seeing what happens.

Pages: 1 ... 76 77 [78] 79 80 ... 82
Official ELI Help Options
Get Help With Your Extortion Letter | ELI Phone Support Call | ELI Defense Letter Program
Show your support of the ELI website & ELI Forums through a PayPal Contribution. Thank you for supporting the ongoing fight and reporting of Extortion Settlement Demand Letters.