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Messages - SoylentGreen

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1201
Yes, it's for AMC's series "Breaking Bad".
Funny, yes?

Indeed not all lawyers are greedy, corrupt, etc.
But, it is interesting how some are getting in on the "copyright infringement bandwagon".

S.G.


1202

Want to be cool like Getty and Masterfile?  Better call Saul!!

To find out more, click on the link below, then click on "Sue 'em now"

http://www.bettercallsaul.com/

Getty's doing it; Masterfile's doing it; so's Riddick..!
Are they making money?  Who cares?  Threatening litigation is cool!!

S.G.




1203
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Canadian Letter
« on: May 05, 2011, 11:48:16 AM »
Copyright trolls masterfile and getty are very good at intimidation; that's how they make their money.
Of course, they don't inform you of your rights in their correspondence.
They may not even have a winnable case against you, so do your research before sending any money.
The copyright troll phenomenon would diminish greatly if most people did more research, and fought back more aggressively,

Here's some interesting info about Canadian law as it relates to intellectual property/copyright issues:

http://blog.innovatellp.com/2011/02/masterfile-corporation-and-copyright.html

http://www.blakes.com/english/publications/brip/article.asp?A_ID=147&DB=blakesProperty


Good luck,

S.G.

1204
Matt, this is hilarious.

They're sending all that US law psychobabble to a Canadian resident?
The US registrations don't mean much in Canadian law.

That resume!!  A failed music career?  Why not try IP law?
Hilarious.

S.G.


1205
Copyright trolls masterfile and getty are very good at intimidation; that's how they make their money.
Of course, they don't inform you of your rights in their correspondence.
They may not even have a winnable case against you, so do your research before sending any money.
The copyright troll phenomenon would diminish greatly if most people did more research, and fought back more aggressively,

Here's some interesting info about Canadian law as it relates to intellectual property/copyright issues:

http://blog.innovatellp.com/2011/02/masterfile-corporation-and-copyright.html

http://www.blakes.com/english/publications/brip/article.asp?A_ID=147&DB=blakesProperty


Good luck,

S.G.

1206
Some good points have been made, indeed!!

A cursory search of the US copyrights database hasn't turned up a reference to the "Stone Collection" that TSmith mentions.  However, I did notice that many of the Getty registrations have the actual "copyright holder" listed near the bottom of the entry.  It's usually different from that of "Getty" itself.

If an entity was to be sued by Getty, and the defendant wins, couldn't the defendant collect legal fees from Getty?

Also, I think that re-assigning copyright back to the image dealer (Getty for example) for legal enforcement purposes could be a big mistake.  It's quite easy to indicate when and from where the alleged infringement was detected.  So, keep good records.  It's like saying, "look we caught this company" and then bringing a contract into court that was drafted after the alleged infringement.

We chatted previously about a class action.  Getty may have taken on some risk here.  Consider the present situation wherein Getty has been threatening hundreds of companies/people with litigation over breach of copyright.  If Getty doesn't own the copyright to the content in question, then it really shouldn't be threatening people.  It has no right to in such cases.  It's easy to demonstrate that Getty's the expert in the business, it could be shown that they should have known better.  If Getty has no more claim that I do, what's to stop me from doing what they're doing?  What's that?  It's 'illegal'? Some might say that it's fraudulent.  In addition, if contracts are changed after an alleged infringement, to make their case look better, then it begins to sound a little like a conspiracy.  It would be interesting to see a group come together and file suit.

I'm not trying to be contrary to good advice here; I'm just interested in discussion.

SG

1207
Hi Helpi

I spoke of caps on what settlements can be sought; some places now have "innocent infringer" provisions which have lowered the bar on what settlements can be sought in court in cases where the defendant was really a victim.  In some places it's as low as $200 and as high as $2000.00, if I recall correctly.

The possible penalties for statutory damages ($30,000 for non-willful infringement and $150,000 for willful infringement) per work infringed are technically correct for some jurisdictions. However, it would be very extraordinary for such a judgment to be handed down.  Readers here should visit Matthew's post "Recent Masterfile Federal Case Vindicates Our Position! A MUST READ".  Masterfile was seeking $5,880.00 for alleged unauthorized use of four images for three years.  The defendant filed no defense and didn't even show up for court.  The verdict?  Masterfile got $1,120.00.  Their lawyers got $4,860.00.  So this should give a kind of benchmark of what to expect in a bad-case scenario.  I pick on Masterfile a bit in this post; examples of Getty lawsuits are somewhat rare.

I do feel that there is ample evidence of Getty threatening to sue over the alleged unauthorized use of images that have not been registered as copyrighted.  Certainly, any work is "copyright" by the artist at the moment of its creation.  But, the artist in question would need to seek compensation in the event of unauthorized use, unless the rights were surrendered to Getty.

A very important point to note is that a company or individual can threaten litigation over practically anything at any time.  One could even pay the nominal fee to the court and actually file a lawsuit even if there is no real intent to "go to court".  Even if I knew that I would lose for sure in court, I could still do it as an intimidation tactic.  That is, one can threaten litigation with no obligation to litigate and one can actually sue with no obligation to have a winning case, or even go to court.  Many entities file lawsuits, and then the plaintiff lets the suit expire, or it's simply cancelled if the defendant comes up with a great defense.  Getty needn't tell anyone that it doesn't have a solid case; they could even lie to you.  Most of the money that Getty receives from this is from out-of-court settlements, so we can say that intimidation works quite well.  In addition, remember that anyone on the Internet can pop out of nowhere, and say "That's mine. You owe me thousands".  You'd better check out their claims in minute detail before paying.  Now, I do not mean to make light of such threats or litigation.  They do need to be taken seriously.  As Oscar says, "don't let it come to a lawsuit".  So, the best bet is to get solid legal advice about such matters.

Indeed one would not need to 'attack' Getty in court.  If Getty were to come after you or me for say, $10,000, it wouldn't be unreasonable for us or our counsel to ask to see the contracts in question before paying.  They may also back off if the contracts are crap.

As for the motivations for having strange or unexpected contracts, it happens all the time.  People make mistakes, the documents weren't drafted by patent attorneys and some artists just consider their work to be their "baby" and don't want to give up all rights to it.  Other artists want to use their work in other ways in addition to licensing it to stock art companies.

If we refer to Masterfile Corp. v. World Internett Corp. et al. (2001), points 20 through 33 ... 38:  (I've underlined some important findings)

http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/en/2001/2001fct1416/2001fct1416.html


[20]            Five Masterfile contracts with various artists were reviewed in connection with these submissions. They are: a Memorandum of Agreement dated April 19, 1985 between Masterfile and Daryl Benson (the "First Contract"; a Memorandum of Agreement dated September 1, 1988 between Masterfile and Wilhelm Schmidt (the "Second Contract"; a Memorandum of Agreement dated July 1, 1989 between Masterfile Corporation and Bruce Rowell (the "Third Contract"; a Memorandum of Agreement of May 1, 1994 between Masterfile and Paul Chen (the "Fourth Contract"; and a Memorandum of Agreement dated June 1, 1999 between Masterfile and Bruce Rowell (the "Fifth Contract".


[21]            In the First Contract, the artist appoints Masterfile his sole and exclusive agent worldwide for the sale and licensing of all defined images. Provision 2.02 of the First Contract makes it clear that, in future, the photographer will execute any assignments or licences of copyright needed to give effect to a sale or licence of an image. Respondents' Counsel says that, if Masterfile was to be an exclusive licensee, the First Contract would so provide and there would be no need to involve the photographer in future copyright assignments.


[22]            Respondents' Counsel also refers to provision 4.03 of the First Contract. Masterfile relies on its sole right to reproduce the images as proof of its status as a licensee but Respondents' Counsel notes that provision 1.01(a) states that the copies Masterfile makes must be clearly distinguishable from the originals. Respondents' Counsel submits that, since no licence is required to make a distinguishable image, Masterfile's right to reproduce a distinguishable image does not support a finding that it is an exclusive licensee.


[23]            Furthermore, provision 5.01 of the First Contract makes it clear that the artist and not Masterfile retains all present and future copyright.


[24]            Provision 7.03 of the First Contract deals with litigation and states in part that:

The Photographer grants Masterfile full and complete authority to make those claims and take such action as may be necessary (in the opinion of Masterfile) if there occurs any damage to, destruction or loss of any Material, or the unauthorized use of Agency Images by any third party. All amounts recovered by Masterfile in connection with any claims or action shall be apportioned and paid equally to the Photographer and Masterfile...


[25]            Although it appears from this provision that the artist agrees that Masterfile will litigate alone over unauthorized use of an image, it is my view that, because copyright stays with the artist, this provision is not sufficient to appoint Masterfile an exclusive licensee of the artist's copyright in the image.


[26]            The Second Contract also appoints Masterfile as the artist's agent and entitles it to make distinguishable reproductions of the images. As well, in provision 5.01, the artist states that he is the sole holder of the copyright in the images. Again, Masterfile can litigate about unauthorized use but there is no provision for a copyright assignment for litigation and no reference to Masterfile as an exclusive licensee. Accordingly, it is my conclusion that this contract does not make Masterfile an exclusive licensee.


[27]            The significant provisions of the Third Contract are similar to those in the First and Second Contracts and my conclusion about Masterfile's status is the same.


[28]            In provision 2.01(a) of the Fourth Contract, the artist warrants that he is the sole and exclusive copyright owner. In provision 3.05(a), the artist agrees that copyright may be transferred to Masterfile if it pursues claims under provision 7.04. That provision gives Masterfile authority to litigate claims dealing with the unauthorized use of images.


[29]            The second paragraph of provision 7.04 is the first version of Masterfile's deemed assignment clause. It reads as follows: "This section 7.04 will be deemed an assignment of copyright to the extent that such assignment is necessary in any jurisdiction to permit Masterfile to pursue claims on behalf of Chen [the artist]."


[30]            Reading provisions 3.05(a) and 7.04 together, it appears that, in the future, two events are possible. Firstly, copyright may actually be transferred to Masterfile. Secondly, it may be deemed to have been assigned, so that Masterfile can litigate on an artist's behalf. The clear implication, in my view, is that the artist will not be a party to Masterfile's litigation. If Masterfile does not sue, copyright remains with the artist. If Masterfile does sue, the deemed assignment only takes effect in jurisdictions in which, without the assignment, the artist would be a necessary party to an action.


[31]            Masterfile takes the position that, because it is the artist's exclusive licensee, it does not need to rely on the deemed assignment. It submits in the alternative that, if it is not an exclusive licensee, the deemed assignment gives it standing to sue for breach of copyright without making the artist a plaintiff in this litigation.


[32]            I have concluded that, under the Fourth Contract, Masterfile has not been made an exclusive licensee. Therefore, it becomes necessary to consider the validity of the deemed assignment. This will be done in the context of the Fifth Contract.


[33]            The Fifth Contract was a new form of contract that Masterfile asked its existing and new artists to sign as of June of 1999. However, only forty-four of the forty-nine artists whose images are at issue in this case have given Masterfile a deemed assignment of copyright. Some of the forty-four only gave the deemed assignment after Worldsites and Taalwood began to copy the images. As well, the following five artists never had deemed assignment of copyright clauses in their contracts with Masterfile:

Paul Terpanjian

Larry Williams

Kerry Hayes

Bill Brooks

Wilhelm Schmidt


[34]            In provision 3 of the Fifth Contract, Masterfile is appointed as an agent, not a licensee. In provision 4, Masterfile acknowledges that copyright will remain exclusively with the artist. However, the artist agrees that at a future date he or she will assign copyright to Masterfile in certain circumstances that include litigation. In provision 4.5, Masterfile is authorized to execute on the artist's behalf any documents required to assure and confirm Masterfile's copyright.

.
.
.

[38]            Based on the Fifth Contract, it is again my conclusion that Masterfile is not an exclusive licensee. Further, although it could have taken an actual assignment of copyright in order to litigate without making the artist a party to the litigation, and although it could have executed such an assignment itself, Masterfile has not done so pursuant to provision 4.5.



Getting back to our discussion.  In short, the finding was that the plaintiff lacked capacity to bring suit on behalf of copyright holders.  This case sets a precedent in Canada.  Have the laws changed since 2001?  Maybe.  Have the contracts been improved?  Probably.  But, likely not in every single case.  My point is that some good counsel and a little research can go a long way.  Everyone should do this before writing a big check.

SG

1208
Dear TSmith,

Yes, you had mentioned the 2008 registration.  I should have read more carefully.

I feel that Getty and their ilk make it sound like a lawsuit is a 'slam-dunk' for them as part of their scare-tactics.  I'm not an attorney, but I don't think it's always so simple.  For example, Getty may have registered the images in question.  But, is Getty an "exclusive agent" or "exclusive licensee" of the images?  If copyright stays with the artist, then Getty is an "agent" or "exclusive agent", but not an 'exclusive licensee".  Getty's contract with the artist may say that it can sue on the artist's behalf... but if Getty's only an "agent" (sole copyright hasn't been transferred to Getty), then what?  It might mean that Getty has no jurisdiction to seek compensation. It's in the contracts between the company and the artist. This sort of thing depends on local laws and a judge's interpretation of them, too.

It would be interesting to see some sort of group or class action, indeed!!
I guess that it would need to be shown that Getty et al have broken some law(s).
They seem to be careful about that thus far.

Another poster here mentioned that a masterfile employee had stated to him/her that 85 percent of their revenue came from demand letters/settlements.  I wonder if a business whose revenue for the most part came from threats and not traditional business practices (actual sales) could fit the loose definition of 'racketeering'.  That is, 'engaged in the sale of a solution to a problem that the institution itself creates or perpetuates' as wiki puts it.  Since these companies are private, it would be difficult to prove where the revenue comes from.

Of course, I can't predict the future.  But, these incidents are increasing and it seems to be getting sleazier.  If the buying public is educated enough about the issues, it could affect the perception of these image companies.  That could really hurt sales and put the brakes on this a bit.  The legal and social climate could change and stop some of this as well.  For example, if there was a cap on what could be awarded in court.  Or, people could become more aware of their rights, etc.

SG

1209
I wouldn't take anything that Getty says as 'advice' as to one's legal options.  Or Masterfile for that matter.  They'll just tell you that you pay no matter what.

The question is, has Getty sued anyone in the 'states recently?  If not, are they going to begin with an issue of only two images?  Especially over two images that are probably not copyrighted anyway.  If the images aren't copyrighted at the time of the alleged infringement, they won't be able to get their legal fees.  Who on earth would spend more than 5k to get the purchase price of the two images (which might not even be the $1200 that they demanded?

Might be good to check about it.

SG

1210
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Received a copyright letter today
« on: February 10, 2011, 05:39:45 PM »
If this was likely to end up in court, I'd do some research.  Examine court records.  Check to see whether the "photographer" has sued several end users, but has not sued any of the sites disseminating his/her photo for free.  If this is the case, it could be evidence of a scam.  This evidence might be used in court to show that the photographer intended to entrap unwitting victims.

Keep in mind that a person can say that they are anyone on the Internet.  Is this person really a photographer?  I wonder if this person could come up with the original high-resolution version of the photo with all metadata intact.

SG

1211
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Received a copyright letter today
« on: February 09, 2011, 07:02:26 PM »
Has the individual that contacted you shown any proof that he/she has properly copyrighted the image in question?

1212
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Got my letter need advice
« on: November 07, 2010, 06:19:24 PM »
Hi Friend,

I'm sure that all of this is really distressing!!  But, don't panic.

Please take heart that your case is surely not the worst out there.  Many people have been accused of using much more than just two images.

Getty (and some other companies) are just trying to make money this way.  That is why they didn't send you a "cease and desist" letter first. They also tend to mislead people into thinking that there's no option other than to cave in and pay. You may have other options.  Remember, knowledge is power.

To ease your mind, check in the nearest city to you for Intellectual Property (IP) lawyers/attorneys.  Also, check under "copyright" lawyers. Arrange to meet one; the first consultation is often free.  You can ask some questions to gain a foothold as to what your rights really are. If this infringement is the fault of your web designer, then S97 should offer some comfort.  What would getty have to gain by taking you to court? Also, ask about whether or not you should respond to that second letter.

I'm not sure about UK law, and I'm not an attorney. However, in many places it is customary that once contacted by your attorney, the other party (getty) would have to deal with your attorney and not you directly.  This would serve much the same purpose as Oscar's letter.

Good luck,

S.

1213
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: What makes a person "Judgement - Proof"?
« on: November 07, 2010, 12:06:02 PM »
Oscar,

Thanks for the sound advice here.  I would imagine that some folks were wondering about this.

I don't want to say too much, as to give others ideas that might not be so good.  But, I suspect that there are some who will never really pay if they lose in a litigation. That is, those having credit that's already marginal and whose court judgement is low enough that the price of serious (in-court) collection efforts would far outweigh any gain to be had.

S.

1214
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Got my letter need advice
« on: November 07, 2010, 11:47:20 AM »
To 'work', the letter would have to be sent from a lawyer/attorney in your state/province or district.  

The letter works in that it requires that your adversary send any further threats, phone calls, etc. to your attorney's office and not to your home or work.  So, you can rest a little easier.  If your adversary is not really 'serious' about pursuing you, they'll give up because their simple threats won't reach you.

The letter wouldn't circumvent your adversary if they did actually decide to litigate, however.

Oscar, better 'copyright' that letter of yours!!!

(just kidding)

S.

1215
Getty Images Letter Forum / What makes a person "Judgement - Proof"?
« on: November 04, 2010, 07:48:45 PM »
Hey Oscar,

I'm sure that more than a few young people have been caught up in the trolling of Getty and Masterfile.

If such a young (or any person for that matter) has no real assets, and is not presently working, would those conditions make the individual "judgement-proof"?

In such as scenario, would it even make sense for someone like this to even attend the court date?  Would the plaintiff ever be able to collect anything even if they prevail in court?

S.

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