Messages

1216

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Are Screenshots from the Wayback Machine useful as evidence?

« on: August 01, 2012, 10:20:58 PM »

Thank you for clarifying that Jerry, the fact that this was a US case makes this awesome news and will make it just that much harder for the copyright trolls!

SG -- It's worth mentioning that Telewizja Polska is an Illinois corporation. I think this case was all in the US.

1217

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Another Victim

« on: August 01, 2012, 10:14:41 PM »

I am so glad to hear that you're going to fight this and not roll over and pay them. The more you read and learn as you are doing your due diligence the more you will see them come to understand that what Getty Images and their copyright compliance specialists like Douglas Bieker do is nothing more than extortion. They demand payment without providing proof and claim they cannot provide proof due to confidentiality agreements and as in my case I agreed to sign a confidentiality agreement promising not to share, disclose or discuss anything within the proof that they provide me except with Getty for the purpose of reaching an settlement. Getty's response to this was that it takes too much time and extra cost to provide the proof requested.

If you're interested in filing complaints about Getty here is a link to a thread showing how to do it, who to send them to an examples of my letters.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/an-experiment-against-getty/

please keep us posted on how your case is going and keep fighting!

1218

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Do I have to prove innocence? Interesting spot with Getty.

« on: July 31, 2012, 11:05:21 PM »

I would also send one to the AG in his state as well as the FTC for starters.

Also, if they do send their demand to a collection agency, you must must write a letter or complaint to the attorney general.  Post a draft here so people can make sure that the fact that they have no right to use a collection agency to intimidate you into paying when there is no debt anywhere except in the mind of Getty.

1219

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Do I have to prove innocence? Interesting spot with Getty.

« on: July 31, 2012, 10:07:31 PM »

You should have absolutely nothing to worry about as far as your credit goes. If they send it to collection agency it will most likely be NCS and all you have to do is send them a letter stating this is a claim and not a debt, I am currently dealing with Getty do not ever contact me again. Here's a sample letter you can use the format of.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/100461757/NCS-Letter-Redacted

I included this letter along with my last letter I sent to my good Getty penpal Douglas Bieker basically thwarting his next step of sending this to NCS collections as I instructed him he must forward this letter to NCS if he sends my case to them

Hey Greg, thanks for the response, lol, yea, you nailed his/her name right on the head.

You know, this whole process with them does not really bother me, I have admitted no guilt and I have yet to pay them.  In fact they sent me one email that said "ok, how about 500?"

All I worry about, long term, is my credit health.  As is, my credit is glistening, and I would be sad if this got to collections and a mark was put on my credit.  I agree with the sentiment here that they will not sue, so I do not feel frightened about litigation, however I am interested in how the collections process goes...I have a theory, however.  PLEASE correct me if I am wrong (which I probably am, as I am not well versed in these things).

-6-12 months pass and I get a random contact from a collector asking if the debt is indeed a debt.

-I say, "no this is not a debt, I do not owe them money, this is a claim by them"

-collector says "fine" and returns to getty with my response.

-then getty decides whether to get a judgement on me, which is severely unlikely since it's one 500-800 dollar image.

Those are my thoughts, would love to hear yours.

1220

P2P/BitTorrent Lawsuits Forum / Re: When Porn Copyright Trolls Attack And Judges Fight Back

« on: July 31, 2012, 09:33:17 PM »

Love it!!!!

1221

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Are Screenshots from the Wayback Machine useful as evidence?

« on: July 31, 2012, 09:19:53 PM »

The part that I found interesting and caught my eye was where it said that even the purported webpage printouts themselves were not self authenticating. To me that means that the screenshot Getty send you don't mean a darn thing or am I reading that wrong.

Again it might be an angle to attempt the next time Getty takes someone to court here in the states and has screenshots as evidence.

1222

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Do I have to prove innocence? Interesting spot with Getty.

« on: July 31, 2012, 09:10:27 PM »

In regards to the caseworker that has been assigned to you, I would not hide their name and I would make it public. It is most likely either Douglas Bieker or Nancy Monson as these two tend to show up quite a bit.

Just because they are a copyright compliance specialist does not mean that they are innocent in this. They know what they are doing is wrong as they are trying to extort money when they know their court cases don't hold up. The excuse I was just doing what I was told or I was just following orders does not apply as if you have half a conscience you could not force people to pay money they should not have to pay.

In my complaint letters that I filed with the Washington State Atty. Gen.'s office, the Ohio State Atty. Gen.'s office, the Better Business Bureau of Washington state, the Federal Trade Commission, my district congressman and senator I made an absolute point of naming Douglas Bieker who is my Getty copyright compliance specialist along with the company he works for for harassment and extortion practices. These people sit in their office and do this all day long knowing it's wrong and not worrying about the complaints filed because they know that the complaints go against the big company that they work for but when you start filing the complaints against them as well and these are all public record and their names are now associated with complaints of harassment and extortion that will follow them wherever they go I think you will start to see a large turnover in the Getty compliance department. I know I would never want complaints filed with all of these agencies against me but then again I could never do anything in good conscience that would warrant a complaint filed against me.

Of course you must decide what is best for you and your case but if you continue to read this forum you will see that what Getty is doing truly qualifies under the definition of extortion and as for me and my fight I am going to make it as personal as I possibly can and go after Getty Images As Well as my good Getty penpal Douglas Bieker.

1223

Legal Controversies Forum / Re: Kirstie Alley Sued Over Weight-Loss Supplement

« on: July 31, 2012, 01:15:03 PM »

Why is it that you are in even more trouble when you are right? 

Except when we are right, which just happens to be NEVER!

FYI- purchasing and reading diet books and nutritional books, doesn't do a damn bit of good if all you do is sit yous ass on the couch and read them...just sayin..

1224

Legal Controversies Forum / Re: Kirstie Alley Sued Over Weight-Loss Supplement

« on: July 31, 2012, 12:58:01 PM »

Soooo true 

haha you're married so you should know we're ALWAYS wrong!

My thoughts were the same as yours until my wife started one of these gimmicks. She has lost 40 lbs in the last 4 months. I guess I was wrong.

1225

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: An Experiment Against Getty

« on: July 31, 2012, 12:56:08 PM »

In your next round of letters be sure to send them to your local offices and I would include the Washington AG office, the FTC, BBB and your states AG office. I would focus on the extortion angle while being honest and sincere telling your story as described above. Please keep me posted on your progress.

1226

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Multiple Roles on ELI and the bigger copyright extortion fight

« on: July 31, 2012, 08:09:15 AM »

April,

If you're starting up your interviews again when you are talking to the producers and making arrangements please feel free to let them know if they would like to speak to a Getty victim firsthand I would be more than happy to come on and share my experiences dealing with Getty and my good Getty penpal Douglas Bieker. Who knows maybe we could even do some together and tagteam team Linda and Getty.

Aside from being a great audience for this forum - I intend to focus on the media at whatever capacity time, my job and life permits. The Beware Don't Share message is important and prevents others from innocently playing into the extortion scheme and is here to stay. Over time, I expect the ELI forum to be known as the David that slew the Getty Giant. Linda Ellis? She is already a melting witch. She may be over sooner than we think. John Jolin? There aint enough Viagra to set him upright. More will come and with ELI they too will be done.

1227

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: An Experiment Against Getty

« on: July 30, 2012, 08:35:54 PM »

Stinger,

I would offer one suggestion for any future letters or to anyone else writing a letter to their senator or congressman. I would share as much detail as you can about your personal case and tell your story is if you're telling your friend trying to win them over. While I am all for including the links to websites as support for your claim you still need to give a detailed story an account of what is happened to you, why it is unjust and how it fits the definition of extortion.

I also highly recommend sending these letters to your Senator's and Congressman's local office not the Washington office. The Washington office is deluged with mail from all over while your local office will take more interest in dealing with a letter from a voter in that local district as they are local themselves. Again you want to write your letter in an effort to win over the letter recipient and make them want to pass it on to the next higher level. If you send them a letter saying this is wrong go research it at these websites for proof they generally have neither the time nor inclination to do this as I am sure their desk is covered with letters that must be opened and sorted and processed in their job is to do this as quickly and efficiently as possible.

You may receive one rejection or you may receive a lot of rejections you cannot let that discourage you and must continue to keep fighting and keep sending letters until someone takes notice. I promise you it does happen and you will see results. Just be diligent and keep plugging away at it.

Just an update on my letter to my Congressman. 

I walked into work this morning to find a message that someone from my Congressman's office had called on Friday regarding my letter.  This got me excited.  Could it be this easy?

Unfortunately, when I tracked her down, she had some difficulty remembering the Friday call.  Then she came back with, "This office does not get involved in legal issues between companies."

I explained that I was not asking them to and that I could take care of my issues with Getty myself.  I explained that my reason was to alert them to the fact that, in my opinion, this company was using copyright law to extort money from individuals and small businesses and that our legal leadership needed to do something about it.  I pointed her to the web sites cited in my letter as proof that this was wide-spread.

Unfortunately, her response led me to only one conclusion.  "Throw out the incumbent delegates from my state in favor of someone who MIGHT care."

I knew this was too good to be true.  But it just means a longer fight.  I do think a deluge of letters to Congressmen might move this up the priority ranks a bit.  If anyone has the time and inclination, please help me take this message (in your own words) to Congress.

1228

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: An Experiment Against Getty

« on: July 30, 2012, 08:21:28 PM »

Lucia,

To answer your question my Congress critter for my district is Michael Turner and my Senator is Rob Portman. I like the idea of an online petition but I think you may get more bang for your buck sending a letter to your districts Congressman and Senator. I approach my letter a little differently, rather than asking for or suggesting changes in the way these letters are sent out I have gone for the approach that would Getty Images is doing is nothing less than extortion. Letter victims like myself who state they feel that a simple cease and desist letter is all that is required but are willing to talk and negotiate to reach a settlement amicably and only request that they send proof of claim to continue negotiations but are refused at every turn. When lawsuits or threatened in your told proof will only be provided through the discovery process it these outrageous damage claims are still demanded this fits the definition of extortion.

I also let them know that Getty Images only seems to pick on individuals, small businesses and mom-and-pop companies they never have the balls to go after companies that actually have legal staff to defend them and will make a stand. In the Atty. Gen. complaints that Robert provided there was an instance where gentlemen received a letter over an image and he replied that the image was part of a website he purchased through Intuit Getty told him it didn't matter it was there image and to pay us. The gentleman wrote to intuit who responded to him saying we will handle it and the next thing you know the Atty. Gen. is receiving a letter from Getty Images saying we consider this case closed thank you for your time and attention. It is amazing how quickly Getty's tune changes when there's actually legal staff there and the company has the resources to fight.

I have seen online petitions where you enter your zip code and it pulls up your districts Congressman and Senator and have signed such online petitions in the past. These were all done at the EFF website. I still feel that a personal letter signed by the individual dropped in the mail has a greater effect if done properly.

Who is your Congress critter? 

Someone may be able to start a online petition and get signatures. To do that, we need to first figure out what concrete changes we would like to see made.  I imagine we might want to see specific requirements:

• for contents of demand letters,
• for behaviors during negotiation. ( Those demanding $$ should be required to show proof of registration and proof that they are the proper party.)
• penalties if they hire a collection agency when no judgement exists.
• • requirement that the company inform people if they have conceded no copyright violation. (For example: my last letter exchange was in January.  Sam Brown stated ".... is still under review in our department".  I think it's about time they respond to my previous letter either providing the evidence I requested or telling me they have dropped the notion of escalating this if I don't pay.
  
  I for one would like to see demand letters be required to include the copyright registration number if it exists or state that it does not exist if it does not. They should also be required to provide proof a licensing contract exists listing the relevant clauses pertaining to the image in question.
  
  I think the law should state that if monetary demand is requested prior to provision of copyright registration information or evidence that a contract is in place the person who is accused of copyright violation should be automatically granted 50% of financial amount requested even if it turns out the person demanding the money had a valid registration and a copyright infraction occurred. These moneys could, of course, be deducted from whatever a judge grants the entity demanding the payment for the infraction. (This would mean that if Getty requested $800 for an images but did not provide copyright registration information that really is only worth $40 and then filed, the judge could give Getty whatever is the minimum the infraction warrants -- which could be $200--  and then simultaneously award the plaintiff $400. In that case, the plaintiff ends up with $800/2 - $200 = $200! Getty ends up out of pocket on this!)
  
  Also: in the event that a knowingly false information is provided, a company would be penalized for fraud.
  
  Moreover, if the case goes to court and the registration either does not exist or is flawed, the recipient should be granted twice the amount requested in the demand letter.
  
  I think this would protect author and copyright owners interests just fine. They could still send out all the letter they wanted. They could send take downs with difficulty at all. They could still also negotiate for  penalties.  They would just need to provide some paper work before requesting any money.
  
  But that's just me.
  

[/list]

1229

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Do I have to prove innocence? Interesting spot with Getty.

« on: July 30, 2012, 07:42:54 PM »

@Nutinsider

I'm sure the first letters you received are the standard Getty form letters, I would be very interested in seeing the letter where they are asking you to prove whether it is a hedge fund or not. Feel free to send the letter to either Matthew, Robert or myself and I assure you that all personal information will be removed. This sounds like something new and we are always interested in trying to keep on top of what Getty is doing so we can modify our attack as Getty modifies their demand letter strategies.

Again, you must decide what is best for you but if it were me, I would tell them I will not pay or negotiate until they provide all the proof that I have requested.

I concur with Robert and SG that if no proof is provided then I would not pay them. I think we would all like to see this correspondence, if you can email it to Robert or Matthew they will redact all personal information from the letter.

Hey Greg,

What correspondence would you like? beginning letter to current?

1230

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: An Experiment Against Getty

« on: July 30, 2012, 08:28:00 AM »

I think it is registered as a compilation with the original artists as well as being thrown in with the 97K+ images of the Stone Collection so I would agree with that.

I still find it interesting that no matter what there is always a reason why they can’t provide you with proof.  They all need to go over and take a class from the folks at Jack Daniels on how to handle these things and get the letter recipient on their side by making the letter recipient your friend and walk away feeling good about the situation and the company that sent the letter. 

For those of you who have not read this letter here is a link to the thread.
http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/linda-ellis-lindas-lyrics-dash-poem-letters-forum/jack-daniels-sends-the-nicest-cease-and-desist-letter-ever!/

I thinks it's safe to say in your case Greg, that the image may be registered already, as it's part of the "Stone Collection" whoever, there is a good chance there are issues with this registration as it's registered as a compilation....

Now that you mention it I think you are right about the 3 months to register your works which meant from the date of that letter they had 12 business days to get it done before their 3 months expired and my demand letter outlining my campaign against Mr. Bieker and Getty was sent after the deadline had just passed.