Messages

1336

Getty Images Letter Forum / What Will Glen Carner's ELI Contribution Be? No more free rides.

« on: June 07, 2012, 02:00:53 PM »

I have stated many times that ELI isn't a charity service anymore. ELI has to be a self-sustaining business interest for Oscar and I.  We don't have to get rich but ELI cannot be a deficit. Oscar, BuddhaPi, and I have a current understanding of how the current ELI model works and stays in existence. I still put in an inordinate amount of time compared to what is paid into ELI.

Having said that, Glen Carner is hanging out with us picking our brains doing the PR thing on the ELI Forums getting all kinds of visibility and huge value.  Not to mention, his letter victims come here for help only to see Glen Carner chatting it up with the ELI Defense Team and the ELI Community.  It is a weird picture to envision.

Thus far, it has been somewhat entertaining for us to read his posts. However, we were curious as to what he had to say so we let him run with it.  However, I am sure it is a little bit more serious for him because of the thorn ELI has been to him. I can promise you that as entertaining as he has been, his ELI involvement is very self-serving. He gains far more benefit than ELI does.

It occurs to me he is burning up my time and jumping into our community and getting all kinds of "free" benefits.  For the normal letter recipient, I don't have a problem chiming away but I don't care for the idea of Glen coming here using tapping into the ELI Community Mindshare and the ELI Marketing machine for his personal and business benefit.

Given that, I am going to pose the question to Glen to see how much of a monthly ELI Contribution he will make to hang out here. If the answer is too low, Glen's time on the ELI Forums comes to a very sudden end. I may even delete his existing messages. I normally would not delete other people's messages but his case is very different.

At this time, Glen "owes" ELI nothing but his time of hanging with us on the ELI dime is over. Glen has been here nearly daily so I know he will see this message.  If he "conveniently" ignores this message, his ELI account will be terminated.

If Glen agrees to make a "reasonable" monthly ELI Contribution to support ELI as other contributors have done, he can hang with us on a very conditional basis. I will be ruthless in the collections and watching his activities. I will have no hesitation to kill his account and all his PR posts.  He will still have to follow the rules. We will always have the right to end his involvement at any time.

Some of the ELI Community members may object to this but Oscar and I have been very open of how we started, grew, evolve, and why we are still around. And given that I consider ELI a valuable resource, for someone like Glen to have free reign to hang out here on ELI for free with the very people he/HAN has extorted from without him paying any price rubs me the wrong way and it will stop.

I have conferred with BuddhaPi and Oscar on my decision and intent and they understand my position on the matter.

If Glen pays a reasonable monthly amount to ELI, he stays. If not, his time is over. No more free rides for Glen when we have other extortion letter recipients having to pay for ELI resources.  It is simply twisted to make letter recipients pay to help support ELI and Glen Carner and his ilk get a free ride.

It isn't going to happen any longer on my watch.  Glen, it is time to pay up to ELI as your victims have had to do or you need to say your goodbyes today.

1337

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A Man of Principal and Not Interest

« on: June 07, 2012, 12:50:41 PM »

Call me dense. I get annoyed about a lot of things. But what am I supposed to be annoyed about here?  Sorry, it went over my head.

Thanks for the support, Mulligan.  I'm waiting for Matt to get a little more annoyed, though.

1338

Hawaiian Letters & Lawsuits Forum / What Does Glen Carner Think of Getty Images & Masterfile?

« on: June 07, 2012, 12:41:17 PM »

Since we haven't run Glen off yet, I am going to challenge him to some relatively "safe" questions and topics.

1.  What do you think of Getty Images and their approach?  Have you met Jonathon Klein? What do you think of him?  Have you met or conferred with anyone on the Getty General Counsel or Copyright Compliance Team?

2. Same questions regarding Masterfile. What do you think about them and Steve Pigeon.  Any dealings with them?

3. Do you let anyone else in the industry know you came to the ELI Forums? Obviously, almost everyone knows now. Any reactions from your industry of hanging out with the ELI Vigilantes? LOL.

4. How do all the stock photo industry players regard each other?

5. Are you or HAN a member of PACA? Do you like what they do?

6. Would you be interested in a telephone or video interview?

1339

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A Man of Principal and Not Interest

« on: June 07, 2012, 12:34:20 PM »

And yet, here you are! LOL!    Don't worry, you are not alone in the rubber-necking. It's irresistible. Glen spices up the forums every time he chimes in.

I wish Carner would crawl back in his hole because his self-serving BS would gag a maggot. It's certainly making my stomach churn every time I read the latest bit from him.

1340

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A Man of Principal and Not Interest

« on: June 07, 2012, 12:08:06 PM »

My comments inline.

Whatever his motives, on a thread somewhere Glen apologized to ENVL, and he seems to want to change his business methods to avoid what happened in the ENVL case.  Even viewed in the most negative possible light for Glen, that is a step forward for the ELI community. 

Actually, not so much what happened to EVNL.  More like the whippings his attorneys, HAN, and his name have been getting. I don't think her incident ranks that high in his coming out. It is simply one of many incidents that motivated him coming out.

But that still leaves us with the question: Suppose tomorrow H.A.N. finds different web site that at least superficially appears to be a business decorated with one of their artists photos. They at least think they have a right to compensation.  What sorts of behaviors on their part are fair and acceptable?  In my view, the answer can't be "H.A.N., CSI and Glen Carner are evil and have no right to collect anything from anyone ever, ever, ever  even unto the 7th generation of their offspring. Because we don't like how they handled things in the past. Oh. And we don't like what some other companies did in the past either!"

Not really our problem if you ask me.  ELI is doing what it was designed to do (defend letter recipients, report on the extortion industry, and fighting back), not solving the problems of the stock photo industry. To me, it is a sinking ship like the Titanic. Very few will get to the lifeboats. Glen might be one of the lucky ones. Who knows?

There appears to be some hope of Glen recovering a tiny bit of the positive karma immensely lost. We will see.

So Glen, are you ever going to come out of the shadows from being a faceless account on the Internet?  A smart thing to do is to humanize yourself by putting out a photo of yourself and maybe a bio.  (Business 101 lesson, reveal yourself and stop hiding behind an online account.)  Every member of the core ELI Defense Team is "out" in the public.  We all have bios, businesses, photos, and on video. You want some respect?  Get out of the shadows.  You seem to care about what we think. Get out of the shadows unless you are so afraid someone will identify you in the streets.

Going forward, there must be some actions stock-photo companies -- including those affiliated with Glen Carner-- can undertake   that could hypothetically permit them to make some sort of contact and attempt to negotiate a settlement in instances where an honest to goodness money making businesses is using a photo that is properly licensed.  I think it's fair for Glen to ask us.  For my part, I'm going to try to give nuanced answers because I think the question of what is or is not a fair way to approach someone who may or may  not be committing a copyright violation requires a nuanced answer.

Glen can ask. What he gets is a different thing. Everyone gets to respond (or not) in their own way. As I said, it isn't a priority for me and I want to get paid a lot for putting my brain on that.  Oscar already gave a freebie and I don't think he is going to devote a lot of time to answering him. I don't think BuddhaPi is extremely motivated beyond a basic answer. Everyone else, I can't say much about.

How Glen uses the information in the answers will affect my opinion of him and his companies going forward.

You and everyone else will be watching.

1341

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Looking for more info on actual and expected results from defense letter program

« on: June 06, 2012, 10:02:53 PM »

I don't want you to take this the wrong way but the fact you were so affected only made you an easier target to come after.  That is the kind of thing that doesn't help you and I highly discourage public display of it.

You had the smarts to find ELI, make contact, and hire Oscar.  In a way, you were "lucky" the Brandon was so dumb to try to get $10K off of one image.  That only incensed Oscar and I more and we did more than we normally would to come after young Brandon.

I say things that are unpopular and probably rubs people the wrong way. But can you imagine if the ELI forums became overrun with people in fearing with their imaginations running wild?  Compare that to a whole bunch of people who are outspoken, fighting mad, putting their brains together, and joining forces to to fight back.

I really believe "like attracts like". You ask why you keep coming back even though your case is over? There is some part of you that is similar to the rest of us. AS you said, you might have lapsed in this case but you are probably outspoken and strong in other areas of your life.  Either that or you like hanging around us mean, rebellious, vigilante types! 

I was tormented for over 3 weeks with that fear until the moment I called Matthew & Oscar. One of the best patent attorneys in my community felt I had no chance of getting any kind of a break on it.

Why weren't you responsive when I was in tears telling you I was afraid of what would happen to my son?  Before I spoke with ELI & Oscar, as far as I knew, you could have won in court for the $10,000...All it would have done is bankrupt us as my husband & I were just starting a new marriage & came together without any assets, I tried to explain this to all involved. I also provided evidence that
I was being honest about my financial situation at that time.

The only thing I had to lose was my freedom & the well being of my son. Mr. Tylor's wife seemed to understand my position when she tried to tell me no one goes to jail. I would think she of all people would have responded to the real fear she heard in my voice. When I apologised to her, I truly meant it. But she had me contact you, you know the rest of the story. Why would HAN & Brandon Sand have me believing I would ever even spend 1 day in prison? Brandon Sand however felt I should be reminded that the law is the law & kept me on the hook for over 3 weeks, that is a long time.

Matthew teaches the ELI community to "get it together"...My whole life, I have always been strong, nothing has ever stopped me in my tracks like this.

I am not here for vengeance, only for truth, life is too short & too sweet for that, I am here to help others.
If you are really here to make a difference in the way that you collect, are you telling me & all of ELI that this will not happen again to some other naive fool such as I? Tell you what, this will be my last post where I mention your name or anyone else that was involved. I forgive you all. Maybe if you can forgive yourselves, a greater change will come. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy you are trying to turn over a new leaf by making a positive less intrusive change & while you do that, please remember what I went through & how hard it must have been for me to think of being separated from my son.

1342

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Looking for more info on actual and expected results from defense letter program

« on: June 06, 2012, 09:42:14 PM »

Your case is out of the norm. We beat the crap out of Brandon and he wanted out really badly and quickly. He couldn't take the ELI heat.

I hired Oscar & my case was solved within days! He is
worth every cent he is asking & a lot more.

1343

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Copyright Services International / Hawaiian Art Network

« on: June 06, 2012, 09:38:34 PM »

You just keep making me call you out on things.

You CAN speak out if you want to.  It's your darn lawsuit after all. YOU hired the lawyer for gosh sakes. But if you choose NOT to then freaking say so. 

Don't give this song and dance on how some lawyer won't let you.  I already went through that BS with someone else and it turned out he was simply a coward that didn't know the first thing about publicly defending himself and got himself a huge ass lawyer bill for being silent. It didn't matter his audience was probably 10 times larger than ELI. He was just not very bright and blindly followed his lawyers.

Let me give you a freebie.  Try keeping your own counsel once in a while.

That's fair Matt.  Thank you.  I can't speak to the HAN matters as you know but I appreciate you asking for the facts (which you also did prior at the first allegations of circulating images).

1344

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A Man of Principal and Not Interest

« on: June 06, 2012, 09:28:46 PM »

I think EVNL is quite happy how it all ended up.  I think she got her 5 pounds of meat and then some.

ENLV--
The 'no clients' aspect is why I think HAN bungled. They need to be able to figure out when something really is a business and when what they found is basically a mock up.  This requires some effort. In your case just listening to you and doing a few checks should have cleared that up. But that effort wasn't undertaken by HAN and instead you were treated very, very badly and unfairly.

1345

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: A Man of Principal and Not Interest

« on: June 06, 2012, 09:27:18 PM »

My comments are inline.

Copyright Services International was created to provide copyright related services.  The only CSI service that relates to collections is the account director position who was trained partially with the postings of ELI members.  It takes reading "between the anger" but I see far more benefit to what ELI provides vs. fight, resist, and "they are bad, you are good" thinking.   

Glen, like attracts like. Despite the varying personalities here on ELI, I would say the intelligence level is high and the "regulars" our outspoken. Many of us are not pushovers. And you are right about one thing, ELI is definitely more than fighting and resisting. It is about empowerment, getting smart quickly, and making an impact.

You have seen our account director's communications and can tell her approach is far different then anything that has been tried before.   That’s why I was surprised you guys shot it down so quickly because it moves away from some of the concerns spoken about here so frequently and towards a model where a person can pay for an image plain and simple without the rigmarole or hardness that comes with formal legal action. 

This has been explained many times before. Most of us are suspicious because of HAN's track record and the misdeeds of "your side" is not so easily forgotten. And believe it or not, I believe Vincent Tylor is more despised than you are. His being your friend and co-hort does not help your image or conciliatory tone.
 
Yes BuddhaPi, that may be saving face or sanitizing but that it the way CSI works and you and others have condemned it to be this bad thing because "Glen Carner" created it.  For that matter, doesn't it make it easier to dismiss my actions (positive or negative) because you label and call me names?  Don’t you see how this distances you from ever seeing positive (even favorable) movement or change and hardens you from the position as others might see it? 

Tell it to the letter recipients. I guarantee you they are not thinking about it while they are staring down the barrel of a potential or imagined lawsuit.

I have worked to understand you and others on ELI and thought about compromises between the photographers and business using the images without license since I first read these forums. 

What's so hard to understand? You must be a bit dense then. I can draft an extortion letter tomorrow and send it to you and threaten "something" unless you pay me $5,000. (I take credit cards.) Let's see if that make it easer for you to understand.

Please try to see that this is not a greed driven industry run by green monsters living under bridges.

NO, you just got a lot of starving artists who don't understand business, economics, industry changes and that what they do and the product they produce (photos) has much lower market value today than years past.  Not to mention they aren't respected that much.  BTW, what have they done to earn respect?  Don't even get me started on many professional photographer experiences I've had.  Heard of digital cameras and phone cameras?  There are a glut of photos and the dumb agencies think by hoarding even more photos makes them more valuable.

Just because I believe that artists should be paid for their work and that attorneys MAY have a role in that does not mean that all I do is green, boiled in a cauldron, and inherently evil. 

If someone makes a move towards me and tries to extract something I am not willing to give willingly, it won't matter what you look like. I guarantee you there are many others who feel the same way. They won't give two licks about you if you overstep your boundaries.

I know it’s important for ELI to stop stock photo companies (including HAN) from trying to collect money after an image has been used without license but that doesn't mean that I and others are not working to try and find a better (less hostile certainly) way to deal with these issues. 

Quite frankly, it seems you don't have much of a choice unless you want to get out of the business.

Better often means the middle way "Buddha."  Many photographers feel this way as well which is why the attorneys may collect higher amounts in recoveries, but our photographers often prefer the lower "license fee only" amounts that CSI attempts to collect.  This is less profitable, but speaks to a more reasonable and amicable solution. 

I will believe it when I see it.

When ELI puts down CSI's informal call and email system, you are putting the photographers and agencies that use it in a position of feeling like they have to use the attorneys exclusively because any action needs to carry more teeth. 

I don't think it matters nowadays because ELI has come up with solutions and tactics against what has been reported to us. You want to do the lawyer thing? Oscar is watching and listening as are the rest of us in the ELI Community. Most of us now know that many attorneys have Achilles heels and know where to aim.  I have finally gotten the word out you don't have to use a courtroom to fight back.

While the collection of money for unlicensed stock photos is certainly not among them (at least it gives me no joy or fulfillment) I can assure you that you might find that I am far more balanced in my positions then the extremes encountered in copyright discussions. 

You have very little to lose and everything to gain by being here. You know the ELI Community has been relentless against HAN because your lawyers have been so young and dumb. Seriously, do I really need to go down the roster of each lawyer that I have come across and give my assessment of each?

Treat me as such or keep watching over time and you will see the changes we make at CSI are moving towards more palatable solutions for all parties.  For that matter, if I give you or ELI feedback, please know that it is not coming from someone who has any intention of hurting or belittling you because I respect your position on the matter. 

Amazing how holding a big stick, some smart tactics, and body-slamming a few lawyers along the way earned us respect. I didn't see much of that respect 3 years ago from anyone.

I don’t respect ELIs methods of attempting to harm a new attorney’s career because they felt that their C&D letter was harsh or extreme but I have a excellent solution forthcoming that you may appreciate.  Only from hearing each other can any improvements be made. 

Good thing we didn't ask the stock photo industry what they thought. If someone is dumb enough to get into the extortion business without research, they deserve what's coming to them.  I can't stand young, dumb lawyers who think they know so much. The minute we hit back, then they start crying to someone. Remember our favorite FEcmal CAnadian Lawyer? What a cry-baby blowing up everyone's phone EXCEPT mine, of course. She issued the first threat then started crying when we hit back.  That was YOUR lawyer among others.  How about Attorney Peter H. from California and his bullshit defamation accusation against me and Oscar about "extortion"? What a time suck.  He had a pitiful website. I don't even want to have to mention what was reported to me in confidence by a semi-famous ex-client of his. I still have half-a-mind to report it publicly.

YOUR lawyers have wasted more of my personal time than any other stock photo company's lawyers.  Even Timothy McCormack had the smarts to not come after ELI.  I simply heard he cried the blues to his mama at Getty.  Your lawyers were just plain DUMB and deserved everything we hit them with.

You think everyone is just going to bow down to them because they have a law degree?  We have managed to turn that law degree and their crushing school loans against them. They better watch themselves. The ELI "Collective" isn't dumb enough to just give in just because of a few nice sentiments.

Glen, you have tenacity I will give you that. But I probably have more "untold" stories in my head than almost anyone here, so please don't play Mr. Innocent with me.

1346

Legal Controversies Forum / MOVED: Dash for Cash Videos On The Linda Ellis Dash Poem Extortion Scheme

« on: June 06, 2012, 07:16:49 PM »

This topic has been moved to Linda Ellis/Linda's Lyrics/Dash Poem Forum.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=2870.0

1347

Legal Controversies Forum / MOVED: COPYRIGHT TROLL TARGETS BLOGGERS, CHARITIES, GRIEVING FAMILIES, ENTREPRENUERS.

« on: June 06, 2012, 07:16:37 PM »

This topic has been moved to Linda Ellis/Linda's Lyrics/Dash Poem Forum.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=2862.0

1348

Legal Controversies Forum / MOVED: Linda's Lyrics Extortion Letter by Dash Poem Author Linda Ellis

« on: June 06, 2012, 07:16:24 PM »

This topic has been moved to Linda Ellis/Linda's Lyrics/Dash Poem Forum.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=2868.0

1349

Legal Controversies Forum / MOVED: The Dash Poem Author Linda Ellis Demands Payment of $7500 for posting poem

« on: June 06, 2012, 07:16:11 PM »

This topic has been moved to Linda Ellis/Linda's Lyrics/Dash Poem Forum.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=2857.0

1350

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: ELI Video Updates (June 2012) with Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

« on: June 06, 2012, 03:11:07 PM »

As a special bonus, Buddhapi and I share an ELI Bloopers clip. Have fun at OUR expense.