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Messages - Moe Hacken

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151
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty For sale
« on: July 10, 2012, 09:32:55 PM »
SoylentGreen, if that's the case, could it be that Getty has had the audacity to troll people for using one of the images they scan and appropriate? Why would anyone pay Getty for an image that Jerry says you can find in hundreds or thousands of sites and is officially listed as being in the public domain in the LBJ Library Website? Is Getty just hosing people because they rank higher in Google images than the LBJ Library?

This smells like a rat drowned in shit and no one has ever called them on it? How about we troll Getty for such a fraudulent practice? Why was Buddhapi keeping it a secret?  :P

By the way, Wikimedia Commons has a HUGE wallpaper size version of this image, and this is the information it provides for the copyright status:

Quote
This image is a work of an employee of the Executive Office of the President of the United States, taken or made during the course of the person's official duties. As a work of the U.S. federal government, the image is in the public domain.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lyndon_B._Johnson_taking_the_oath_of_office,_November_1963.jpg

As Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating."

Maybe we SHOULD troll Getty for this fraudulent and grotesque practice! That would pay for the class action against PicScout!

152
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty For sale
« on: July 10, 2012, 09:15:00 PM »
The company claiming to be the "photographer", Universal Images Group, registered the domain as some company in Great Britain and host their website in Australia:

http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/universalimagesgroup.com

The plot thickens more yet. At this point Mr. Spock would say "Highly illogical."

I tried to search for the image on THEIR website, but they require registration. I tried to register as a "Forum Regular" for the purpose of research. The registration software returned a page saying they will revise my information for "approval" and get back to me by email.

Approval? I'm not asking for credit! Why would they turn down my request to search through their image archive?

This gets weirder with every turn. So, is it legal to sell a work that's in the public domain?

Here's what Wikipedia reports:

Quote
The public domain is generally defined (e.g. by the U.S. Copyright Office) as the sum of works that are not copyrighted, i.e.
  • that were not eligible for copyright in the first place, or
  • whose copyright has expired, or
  • that were released into the public domain by the copyright holder.
[/li][/list]
However, there is no such thing as the public domain on the Internet. International treaties, like the Berne Convention, are not self-executing and do not supersede local law. There is no globally valid "International Copyright Law" that would take precedence over local laws. Instead, signatory countries of the Berne Convention have adapted their laws to comply with the minimum standards set forth by the treaty, often with stronger provisions than required. Whether or not something is copyright-free in some country depends on the laws of individual countries.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Public_domain

I think both Getty Images and Universal Images Group are skating on thin ice on this one. I don't think the WSJ paid for this editorial use, and I do know that Getty "comps" some big organizations, or maybe has "bulk use" agreements. Maybe the WSJ is one of them. The credit line from a big newspaper certainly has about as much value as an ad in the paper.

153
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty For sale
« on: July 10, 2012, 07:56:18 PM »
The image is indeed in the Lindon Baynes Johnson Library website. This is the page with the information, download links at different sizes, and the copyright clearly defined as being in the public domain:

http://www.lbjlibrary.org/collections/photo-archive/photolab-detail.html?id=14

This is the copyright information as stated on the lbjlibrary.org photo archive page:

Quote
Public Domain: This image is in the public domain and may be used free of charge without permissions or fees

Now here is the version that is on the Getty Images website as rights-managed, which is the same identical image:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/in-the-aftermath-of-the-assasination-of-us-president-john-f-news-photo/113493550

On the Getty Images website, the photographer is listed as Universal Images Group. A Google Search reveals them to be "the universal business unit for premium content of the Virtual Picture Desk founded by George Sinclair in 2002. UIG sources, edits and aggregates photographs, prints, lithographs, paintings, engravings, illustrations, footage, video clips and other multimedia content."

http://universalimagesgroup.com/

As Star Trek's Mr. Spock would say: "Illogical."

I suspect it can't be both an image in the public domain and an image that can have a legal copyright owner. So who's wrong? The LBJ Library or "business unit" Universal Images Group — AND Getty Images, their distributor for this image?

The plot thickens ... more to come.

154
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty For sale
« on: July 10, 2012, 11:54:32 AM »
Excellent catch, Couch_Potato! However, a couple of things need to be checked out.

First, whether or not it's really in the Getty catalog. It could be an editorial error by the WSJ. Those things happen during deadline crunch time.

Another is whether or not Getty Images is offering licensing for the image as a rights-managed image, or just a "legal guarantee" for a public domain image in case a copyright owner shows up and sends an extortion letter.

I can't check on it at this time, but if someone else wants to follow up on it, it could be an interesting case study.

155
SoylentGreen, how about a meme lionizing Inman for his masterful handling of an internet troll? I think you'd be the best at the job and it would hit the top Google rankings quickly!

156
Thanks for the posts, scraggy. These lawsuits are making some very interesting point about the "strategic litigation"/"extortion letter" racket.

In the Baker case, the argument is that the trolls have no intention of filing a lawsuit, so the extortion letter constitutes fraud and the letter itself is an instance of wire fraud because they used the postal service to deliver an extortionate claim.

The reason the porn trolls generally back off when someone threatens to fight back in court is precisely what Oscar mentioned before about some of the image trolls — they have to consider the risk of going to court and losing cases, thus creating legal precedents that are bad for the trolling industry.

The legal paper from law professors Gideon Parchomovsky and Alex Stein also address why the trolls fear actual litigation:

Quote
Enforcement organizations are repeat players in the copyright arena. As such, they can produce “cease and desist” letters and court briefs at a much lower cost than their adversaries, and then leverage this advantage into a favorable settlement. These settlements economize on litigation costs, but they also stunt the development of fair-use, misuse and other copyright defenses, as courts are increasingly denied the opportunity to consider these defenses. A corollary cost of this dynamic is that it sweeps problems under the rug and thereby prevents policymakers from adopting corrective measures. After all, disputes that have been settled privately between the parties rarely make policymakers to do list.

Source: The Relational Contingency of Rights ( http://tinyurl.com/6vw7u4j )

The emphasis is mine. This statement is basically what Matthew has been saying: Rolling over and being a coward to save money and/or because of ignorance and fear is wrong. Why? As the professors say, because it basically empowers the trolls to go after other innocent victims and prevent the abuse from any oversight by the courts or any possibility of the policymakers taking corrective action to prevent future instances of the abuse.

Invoking RICO to go after the basterds may be a stretch because they are basically taking advantage of a legal loophole that favors copyright owners in a disproportionate way, but if it works it would be the best way to start the drive to make real and permanent change to copyright law in order to level the playing field.

Whether or not they can nail the porn trolls with the RICO charges, these cases substantiate the need for changes in policy. Perhaps some of us in the ELI community can start lobbying the appropriate authorities and bring this serious problem to their attention. Perhaps it could be included in the proposed Orphan Works Amendment, as some kind of "anti-abuse" measure to take out the loopholes.

The changes I would like to see:

1) A warrant or court order being a legal requirement for collecting evidence from someone's server, thus taking out PicScout and any other crawler's gill-netting approach and the profit motive for people to hire them, and;

2) The requirement of a proper cease-and-desist letter being issued FIRST for any alleged infringement, giving copyright users the opportunity to back off in the case of innocent infringements. This wouldn't apply if the infringement was clearly malicious or if evident damage had already been done to the copyright owner. If the copyright user resists, then the settlement claim and threats of litigation can proceed.

The Orphan Works Amendment is still in the works, so to speak. The US Copyright Office would be a good place to start the lobbying.

I'd like to add that Dr. Michael from Aloha Plastic Surgery is my hero for taking Glen Carner and Vincent Khoury Tylor to task for their business practices thinly-veiled extortion bullshit at much expense to himself in money and effort. I eagerly await to see him prevail with a decisive victory and have Carner and Tylor pay HIM for statutory damages, attorneys fees, and perhaps punitive damages.

In doing so, another precedent would be set that hurts all the other trolls for their evil ways and the way would be paved for corrective legislative measures.


157
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty For sale
« on: July 09, 2012, 11:51:29 PM »
Greg, nothing wrong with being the fly in Getty's ointment. I totally agree that any private equity firm is going to look at the purchase of Getty through an economic microscope inside a perfect ethical vacuum. That's what they do.

Their only concern is risk. Their only goal is profit.

Heightening the perception of risk at this delicate time is a very valid way to apply butthurt to the basterds who pioneered the "strategic litigation" and "extortion letter" business model. They're trying to dump the ship before it takes too much water. Their model must be failing or they wouldn't be looking to bail out. The present owners are also a private equity firm and no one could be more aware of the risk involved with Getty's current "value" than they are.

I think your letters could make a difference. Make a strong point and be specific when you tell potential buyers that Getty is a dinosaur at the shore of a massive tar pit. They're top heavy, fat, slow and stupid. They're about to become a fossil, and it's just not worth that much money for a stock photography portfolio that's worth pennies on the dollar due to vicious competition and a legal liability portfolio that grows with every class action likely to be filed against them.

Don't forget to mention PicScout could be challenged on constitutional grounds and lose virtually all of its productive value in the US market. They can figure out what the risk is. That's what they do.

158
Thanks for posting that Greg. I've heard of an obscene amount of money, now Inman has made a graphic meme out of it!  ;D

159
Good point, Buddhapi. I find this letter quite confusing. They have a collection agency collecting a settlement claim for Getty without providing any specifics about the infringement in question, claiming Getty had sent you some information in an earlier communication. This raises all kinds of questions:
  • Did the first letter have any information about the alleged infringement, such as the copyright registration and the author's name?
  • Does Getty have the right to enforce this copyright?
  • How did your client infringe a copyright and what "proof" do they have that an infringement was committed?
  • Did they send you a PicScout screen capture?
Furthermore, has anyone agreed to pay any amount to Getty and then reneged? If not, why is a collection agency talking to anyone about a settlement claim that has not been discussed?

Maybe we need to see the first letter to get a better idea of what's going on. Switching from legal claim to debt collection seems totally capricious and haphazard, not to mention absurd.

By the way, Matthew's right. It's hard to download and read the image of the letter. Maybe you could send him copies of both letters.

160
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Another copyright bot: 80 legs.
« on: July 08, 2012, 08:53:12 PM »
S.G., that's not hijacking the thread at all. The thread is all about copyright bots and how to deal with them. Cyveillance has had people worried for some time now. I've read about them on a number of different civil rights advocacy websites.

The concern about bots, spiders and scrapers crashing into our servers to hose our bandwidth in order to collect content for third parties and whatever ends they may have in mind is widespread. It should be no surprise that an industry is emerging to fight them off. Here's one example of a company, which happens to be from Sweden, that offers software and services to block scraping:

http://blockscraping.com/

They don't mention a price structure, which usually means it's not cheap. This is basically an enterprise solution.

For the regular citizen web administrator, there's this tool:

http://antiscraper.com/faqs.aspx

This is along the lines of what lucia's plugin would do, but it's designed for a different kind of bad-bot. Since it can be customized, I guess one could make it block the crawlers we're interested in, such as PicScout and 80legs.

They do have a fee for using this, but it's a very reasonable $10 per year. This seems very useful for bloggers who have to deal with annoying content thieves. In the post-Panda-Penguin-Google rankings arena, content duplication has become very problematic and these hosers are putting the hurt on honest, hard-working bloggers by recklessly scraping and duplicating their original content.

161
Can't wait for Buddhapi to talk about Timmy's butthurt on the air!  ;D

162
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Another copyright bot: 80 legs.
« on: July 08, 2012, 03:33:26 PM »
lucia is the local expert on that topic. I'm just happy to be learning from her and Buddhapi, who also has some expertise to share.

I'm going to give lucia a little backlink nod and point to her site, where she posted some very valuable info about blocking PicScout. That should be included in the compendium Greg has suggested, which I think is a fine idea:

http://rankexploits.com/protect/2011/12/four-steps-to-slow-down-image-scrapers/

Can't wait for lucia's Wordpress plugin to be ready. Hope this backlink helps the rankexploits.com rankings!  ;)

163
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Another copyright bot: 80 legs.
« on: July 08, 2012, 01:20:22 PM »
Another interesting morsel of information from Yelp's complaint against 80legs:

Quote
17. Specifically, on or about Agust 14, 2009, Yelp added the user agent string "80bot" - the user agent string used by 80legs's crawler - to a list of "disallowed" robots on its robots.txt file. Yelp did so to ensure that neither 80legs, nor anyone affiliated with 80legs, would crawl the Yelp Site.

18. Unknown to Yelp, after Yelp instructed 80legs not to access the Yelp Site through revisions to its robots.txt file, Defendants began using a new user agent, "008", instead of the previous user agent "80bot". In November 2011, Yelp discovered that Defendants were packaging and selling Yelp's data that Defendants apparently were continuing to obtain from the Yelp Site. Specifically, Defendants were offering "Yelp Crawl Packages," or a "pre-configured live crawl" of the Yelp Site. Defendants described their product as a "crawl of listings and reviews on Yelp." Defendants were charging $700 per month to its customers for the "crawl packages." Defendants also offered to sell Yelp's archived data, at a price of $1,000 per million archived records."

It appears that 80legs' shape shifting is not limited to changing IP number blocks. That is one evil and mean-spirited troll-bot.

164
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Another copyright bot: 80 legs.
« on: July 08, 2012, 01:08:31 PM »
Here's another part of the complaint that Yelp filed against 80legs which could be applied to PicScout as well:

Quote
13. Defendants have packaged and sold "crawl packages," or bundles of data that they gathered from websites through their crawlers. Defendants sell such packages despite the fact that they do not own any rights in the underlying data which they are selling and regardless of whether their access to the underlying data was authorized or prohibited.

In the complaints filed against porn trolls, another interesting point is raised. In California, you need to be licensed to act as a private investigator. PicScout and 80legs are indeed practicing as private investigators when they crawl people's servers looking for copyright infringements. It would be good to ask if they indeed have the proper licenses to act as such. This may not apply to other states, but the above argument should cover just about any state in the Union.

165
Quote
I am ready and prepared to give serious butthurt to Getty and anyone that allies themselves with them. I think Eli should adopt the old Civil War flag of the rattlesnake coiled up ready to strike with the slogan underneath it saying Don't Tread On Me

... or we'll "thread" on YOU!  8)

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