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Messages - Matthew Chan

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1921
This obscure ELI post has now resurrected by Canadian Lawyer Julie Stewart herself!

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/index.php/topic,2346.msg3687.html#msg3687

She emails a letter to Oscar and I objecting to the post we have made about her letter on behalf of Hawaiian Art Network. You can follow our thread of conversation on that post.

1922
This was my email response to Julie Stewart. The letter speaks for itself to all concerned.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:    Re: URGENT - defamatory content on your website
Date:    Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:54:57 -0500
From:    * Matthew Chan *
To:    [email protected]
CC:    Oscar Michelen

Hello Julie,

I am surprised that our small posts have caught your attention and that
you have taken the time to send us an email on a Sunday morning. Here in
the U.S., it is a 3-day holiday weekend. You appear to be very diligent
working for yourself or your client, Hawaiian Art, during the weekend.
In any case, I will respond to your concerns of your email.

As you know by now, ExtortionLetterInfo.com was created to report and
serve as a communication outlet and educational resource for those
people who wish to discuss and share their experiences and be informed
about Stock Photo Industry Settlement Demand Letters. We colloquially
call those letters, "extortion letters". While you may disagree with it,
you will find we equally apply this term to everyone issuing settlement
demand letters. You and Hawaiian Art are not being singled out. In fact,
thus far, we consider you and your client relatively minor players thus
far as Getty Images is, by far, the "biggest elephant" in the business.

The reason settlement demand letters are colloquially called "extortion
letters" is because it because it illustrates an ongoing campaign by the
stock photo industry to take advantage of end-user ignorance of
copyright law and legal process to "compel", "motivate", "incentivize"
letter recipients into making payments. As much as we find these letters
distasteful, we do recognize it as being legal. We regard the whole
letter campaign as "legalized extortion" because it is very much an
uneven playing field.

Just as your client (Hawaiian Art) has a legal right (through your
assistance) to pursue alleged infringers with settlement demand letters,
those alleged infringers have a right to be assisted and openly
communicate with any entities that would assist them. Settlement Demand
Letter recipients are free to share their information with us either
privately or in an open forum. We, in turn, can accurately share
information with or without permission. As a general rule, we work with
our community members and have their full support and consent to share
information we do have. As much as you and Hawaiian Art may prefer to
communicate quietly behind the scenes, we have a right to report the
information as long as it is accurate.

As you requested, I have gone back to re-evaluate specific posts
regarding you and Hawaiian Art:

1. Regarding Scribd, there is/was no reference to the copy of your
letter as "extortion letter". It is being called the "Blackline
Settlement Demand Letter" in which Hawaiian Art is being referred to
within the letter. It is a legal document which feel is totally
appropriate to the sharing forum Scribd provides. You, of course, have a
right to contest this with Scribd.

2. The Twitter post in question cannot be edited. As such, I deleted it
altogether because you objected to the phrase "extortion letter" as it
relates to your name. While we feel it is EVERYONE's right to openly use
that term, we will in the future endeavor to refer to such letters as
"settlement demand letters" simply out of professional courtesy.
However, you should know through the DMCA, we cannot be held responsible
for language used by our community members who may still refer to
Settlement Demand Letters as "Extortion Letters".

3. The Facebook post in question could not be edited and was deleted for
the same reasons as Point #2.

4. Last, but not least, the original forum post announcing your letter
has been amended to "Settlement Demand Letter" replacing the previous
term "extortion letter". Again, this was done as a professional courtesy
but the thread of discussion will remain.

Regarding your accusations of slander, defamation, libel, and copyright
infringement, I question whether you truly are a knowledgeable lawyer in
the areas you are accusing or if this is just a heavy-handed tactic in
attempt to test our legal sensibilities. Quite frankly, I believe the
latter is the case. I cannot honestly believe you know so little about
slander, defamation, and libel. I cannot speak for Oscar but here are my
replies:

A. Regarding defamation, you have to prove what is being said is false.
It is quite questionable whether the minimum level of qualification for
defamation even exists. In the context of the entire existence and
premise of ExtortionLetterInfo.com, which we colloquially use the term
"extortion letter" in exchange and in lieu of "settlement demand
letter", you may find that term distasteful but it is not false. There
was no attack on you or your personal character. In fact, we know very
little about you aside from the bio on your website and your letter.
Even our community members have not had much to say about you or your
practice as you are still a relatively unknown entity.

B. Regarding slander, that generally refers to oral / spoken statements.
Quite frankly, there have been ZERO oral/spoken statements about you of
any kind. So the accusation of slander is outright ridiculous. Until
this email, you barely registered in our consciousness much less being
spoken about in ANY capacity much less in a way that is damaging to your
or your character.

C. Regard libel, that refers to written form. Again, does the minimum
level of qualification for libel even exist? Does 3 small posts
(consisting of at most two sentences) referring to your settlement
demand letter even remotely qualify or meet the minimum threshold of
falsehood and damaging? It's a blip. Refer to Point #A in whether the
term "extortion letter" even qualifies as false. I do not think it is
any worse than the statement you made in your email

"It is theft, plain and simple.  Yes, it is upsetting to be on the wrong side of the law."

If you ask me, that is pretty inflammatory for a person in your
profession. I wonder how letter recipients would react to you calling
them "thieves" and being "on the wrong side of the law". I suppose it
might be similar to the way you seem to be offended as being thought of
as an "extortionist". (Incidentally, that word almost never is used on a
personal level to anyone.) Let us also remember this is a civil matter,
not a criminal matter. I don't think you are a judge qualified to say
who is on "wrong side"? There are simply opposing sides of the argument.

D. Regarding copyright infringement, what are you referring to? They
copy of your demand letter? Your letter is being used as a method of
direct communication to an alleged infringer. Are you going to sue
everyone who made a photocopy of the letter for the purpose of
information sharing or defending the case? If you wanted copyright
protection for that letter, maybe you should print it in some
publication and not actually use it as an instrument of legal communication.

Before I close this letter, you may want to advise future clients that
trying to squash Internet communications is a futile effort and only
makes them look bad. If they are too embarrassed or dislike the negative
attention associated with the demand letters, maybe they should revisit
how they approach the matter. People are going to talk and fight back,
not willingly roll over and succumb to outrageous settlement amounts.

In closing, I have acknowledged your concerns and made minor corrective
changes as mentioned above as a matter of professional courtesy. We have
made no factual errors that we can find. As far as I am concerned this
matter is now resolved and closed.

Respectfully,

Matthew Chan

1923
>>This post was hidden as a result of Julie Stewart's DMCA complaint. Consequently, we issued a DMCA counter-notification letter and we are now fully authorized to restore/unhide it for full public reading by Eapps.com<<

Just when I thought I would have a quiet Sunday, comes an email letter from Canadian Lawyer Julie Stewart of Blackline Law. She and Hawaiian Art Network apparently are not happy that one of our community members submitted a copy of their Demand Letter to us to openly share. It appears they prefer to do this in secrecy.

Words like defamation, libel, and slander are being tossed around again.  (Brrr....)  Remember the whole John McDougall and Steven Weinberg incident? If not, read this post to get up to speed.  

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/index.php/topic,2138.0.html

I am wondering if Julie Stewart had read the McDougall / Weinberg post first, would she have even bothered sending Oscar and I the email she did.

I have highlighted some interesting sections as emphasis.  She does her share of name-calling if you ask me.

Her original post was actually relatively obscure and had relatively little traffic and readership. I suspect that will now change.  

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/index.php/topic,2303.msg3487.html#msg3487

Read her letter and share your thoughts.  My response to her will be posted below.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:    URGENT - defamatory content on your website
Date:    Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:28:28 -0500
From:    [email protected]
To:    oscarmichelen
CC:    matthewchan

Mr. Michelen and Mr. Chan,

I am a Canadian lawyer who recently represented a professional fine-art
photographer and his agent in a copyright infringement claim.  The
infringing party was a for-profit corporation that used my clients' images
without purchasing a license.  The cease and desist/ settlement demand
letter has been posted in various places associated with your website with
the suggestion that it is an 'extortion letter' and publicizes my name as
well as my client’s name.  I have reported it as prohibited content to
facebook and Scribd, both in respect of slander, defamation and libel AND
copyright infringement.

Please confirm that this letter and all references to it will be removed
from your website and any associated sites (facebook, Scribd, Twitter,
etc.) immediately along with any reference to my name, my business name
and my clients' name.

My clients' images are high-quality professional-grade photographs created
for professional use.  Companies looking for professional-grade images
purchase licenses from my client. Professional-grade images come with a
price tag because they often cost the photographer money to produce.  I
work with many photographers, and they can spend hundreds, sometimes
thousands of dollars, to create their work (i.e., purchasing equipment,
paying models, etc.)

While I completely understand that it can be upsetting to receive a cease
and desist/ settlement demand letter, please also understand that it is
equally upsetting to the photographers to find that for-profit companies
are using their images without paying for them.  It is theft, plain and
simple.  Yes, it is upsetting to be on the wrong side of the law.


Under Canadian law, even if an infringer's use of an image was innocent,
the infringement subjects them to liability for damages plus the costs of
proceeding against them. To prove innocent infringement, you would have to
show that you had no reasonable grounds for believing you had infringed –
a defence rarely accepted by the courts, and difficult to establish for
commercial websites.

Nevertheless, my clients' settlement demands are calculated to assume that
infringement is innocent and only include the likely award for damages
(the catalogue license price for the size, length and type of use in
question) plus the costs of pursuing the claim, including legal fees.  In
fact, the settlement demand is often significantly lower than the minimum
that a court would award as damages for innocent infringement.

There is nothing 'extortionist' about requiring the owner of a for-profit
commercial website to pay a license fee to a photographer who earns his
living from his work.  It is entirely in line with Canadian copyright
infringement law, as it ought to be.  My clients are committed to
amicable, fair settlement and simply want to get paid for their work as
anyone else does.

Thank you for your immediate attention to this matter.  I hope that we can
resolve this quickly and without me and my clients having to pursue
further action.

Julie

Julie Stewart
Lawyer, Blackline Art + Entertainment Law
T: 1-(416)-628-8364
F: 1-(416)-628-8364
www.blacklinelaw.ca

1924
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Oscar Letter Program
« on: November 12, 2011, 02:54:39 PM »
Oscar is well-known by most of the stock photo companies.

Until they officially hear from Oscar, they can still technically contact you. However, it will likely make them temporarily stop once you inform them Oscar has been hired. Thus far, the stock photo companies have been careful in their approach. They will probably give it some time for Oscar's letter to show up.

And even if it doesn't show up right away, it isn't like receiving another letter will kill anyone although it will likely create stress for many.

Matthew


1925
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: ELI Website Traffic Statistics Trivia
« on: November 11, 2011, 03:46:07 PM »
One thing that hit me last night that I have not factored in is the robo-spammer factor.  This forum gets hit with 100-150 fake registration attempts every freaking day by robo-spammers and it irks me to no end.  Most of it does not make it for anyone to see. However, some do slip through and Buddhapi has caught many of them when I don't.

However, my hope is that despite the many robo-spamming attempts, they are concentrated to a few IP addresses which will not materially affect the stats I have published.

Regarding monetizing the traffic? I will share my thoughts on that later.

Matthew

1926
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: How about an "Occupy Getty" protest?
« on: November 11, 2011, 02:57:14 PM »
I believe the primary reason is that most people want to stay anonymous.  Signing a petition would require you to reveal your identity. Most people don't really care to deal with this anymore than they have to.  It is sort of like how the readership is far greater than the actual number of active posts.

And quite frankly, thus far, fighting these extortion letters is actually pretty simple once you understand the moving parts.

Matthew

1927
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Feeding the copyright troll machine
« on: November 11, 2011, 02:52:01 PM »
Wow, that is a long list.  How did you get the list of Picscout clients?  Was it on the Picscout website?  If so, they made it easy to boycott those companies.

Matthew

1928
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Question about Oscar's response letter
« on: November 11, 2011, 02:50:03 PM »
To be fair, that is not true.  A lawyer can obviously be influential with their clients.  However, no lawyer can "force" their clients agree to file a lawsuit to anyone.  A lawyer can be supportive but they cannot make the decision.  If a lawsuit were to happen, the decision would have to come from the stock photo companies.

There are many reasons why stock photo companies have not pulled the trigger.  The biggest reason is most the time, expense, and aggravation to do so.  It just isn't financially worth it in most cases. The other big reason is that it opens a Pandora's box that could set a dangerous precedent of NOT going their way.  Anyone can look to Righthaven and RIAA as examples of how lawsuits generates LOTS of negative PR and how courts can turn against them.

Matthew

1929
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: ELI Website Traffic Statistics Trivia
« on: November 11, 2011, 03:54:12 AM »
This is the November 2011 update on the ELI Website Traffic Stats Trivia.

ELI set an all-time record number of unique visitors in October 2011 with 11,000+ unique visitors using 9.1 GB of bandwidth.

The highest number of visitors in one day has now hit 840+ unique visitors. Wednesdays is still the peak day, except this time around, Mondays & Thursdays were nearly tied at 2nd place.

51% of traffic came from bookmarks and direct address.  (Repeat visitors)
28% of traffic came from search engines. (mostly Google)
21% of traffic came from referral links from other websites. (a lot more referrals that I expected)

On the Facebook front, ELI has nearly crossed the 300 "likes" milestone. It will probably cross over by the end of November.

I know I shouldn't be surprised but I guess I am still amazed that this small website about a very obscure issue (relative to what the rest of the world cares about) continues to grow as it does.

It should be interesting to see how ELI does over the holiday months of November and December 2011. We will find out after the New Year in 2012.

1930
I appreciate your ongoing support. It is clear by your ongoing posts and feedback. So please do not take offense if we do not agree 100%.  We are still on the same side.  If it means anything, Oscar and I have minor disagreements on some finer points but a lot of it has to do with the fact we view things a bit differently because of differences in our profession, education, and life experiences. Fortunately, the core team has many more agreements than disagreements.

None of us will agree absolutely 100% but I am still willing to stay open to suggestions and ideas. Hence, this post can easily stay alive and at the top as long as someone continues to post an update.  WE all spearhead different aspects of this fight.  I may have this website but I promise you, it would carry very little weight if you and everyone upped and left tomorrow.  Buddhapi isn't working with me and Oscar because he is bored and has nothing to do.  He has graciously offered his time as an official forum spokesman and moderator because he is a believer and an advocate.

I am not able to divulge specifically the planned changes in 2012 but suffice it to say there will soon be full disclosure and opportunity for those people who want to shine the spotlight on aspects they think as important as you have. Thus far, this forum has been the primary instrument but there will be another option.

Regarding your "pie-in-the-sky" goal, the core team shares it.  Nothing would make me happier than to say ELI has come the end of its relevance and life because the stock photo extortion letters were put out of business. In fact, I am hoping that someone creates something so dramatic that shocks the crap out of the stock photo industry much like the convulsions legacy book publishers are facing today.  I would like to buy photos but I cannot knowingly financially feed into the very companies that are pumping out these extortion letters.

Anyhow, your suggestion is one that is worth keeping alive.  Let's see where this goes.  It is possible I am too cynical and I just need more time to let it sink in.

Matthew

1931
The short answer to the suggestion of adding more categories is the fact that the volume of posts are still relatively light. Yes, it does make some topics and posts easier to find but having had many years of online community management experience, it makes for a very boring (and less participatory) forum when you have a specialty forum that stagnates and is eventually orphaned.

Think about this:  we have a collections forum but exactly how many people will be posting there?  It is way too specific and destined to become a "dead forum".  As it is, there are days that this forum is very quiet.  Readership remains very high but the number of people who actually participate is still very small.

The answer to frequently asked questions is to create FAQ section or FAQ post.  But the problem here is no one gets paid anything to do all this work of categorizing and organizing the information in such a way that it is "served on a silver platter". Someone has to do the work.

If someone wants to create and assemble common questions and answers into a post, I will be happy to "sticky" it provided the answers are inline with what we already know to be true.

On a macro-scale, the power of this online community encourages the organic growth of this online database. Unfortunately, segregation often hinders and hurts growth.  For now, we are keeping most of the posts and activity concentrated into very few forums.

Yes, I know it makes it more difficult for newcomers but let us not forget they are not paying anything to access all this information. So, if that means they have to work a little harder to get and search the information, then so be it (for now).

I will not say I won't ever change my position on this.  I have to watch the overall activity. But for the near future, that is my position on new categories as the Community Leader.  Not trying to be an ass in my tone, just trying to be clear and direct in what the current ELI priorities are.

Matthew

1932
I understand there are good intentions in trying to find good public domain photo sites. The problem here is how can anyone know for certain?  How do we know that copyrighted photos don't accidentally slip into the system through an upload?

The only photos I can "reasonably" trust that are public domain are those that come from clearly marked U.S. government websites like those from NASA, White House, and other well-established governmental agency.

I am NOT going to put a sticky on this post simply because there is an implied endorsement by this website or its moderators.  I have no problems with this thread.  But to me, it is definitely "BUYER BEWARE" regarding photos.

As a fellow web presence developer and extortion letter recipient, Buddhapi and I definitely are on the same page regarding using our own photos or creating our own graphics. I do have some public domain photos I would use because I personally downloaded them from U.S. government sites and verified them as "safe" for my use. But that is definitely an exception and not the rule of how I operate.

I have found creativity can go a long way in finding substitutes for using someone else's photos.

Matthew

1933
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: My Tuesday Rant
« on: November 10, 2011, 07:33:13 PM »
This is going to be one of those things that every web developer will eventually face. Right now, it is the "wild west" but as more web developers have clients get nailed by the extortion letters, they would be wise to follow your course of action.

I am very selective on who I do web work for and I insist on a LOT of control.  I can't afford to have someone else's stupidity hurt or impair me.  I have more than enough stupidity on my own to hurt myself!  LOL.

Matthew

1934
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Question about Oscar's response letter
« on: November 10, 2011, 07:29:48 PM »
Don't hold me to it his but I believe Oscar mentioned to me in a conversation that he can do the $195 for Hawaiian Art.  With Masterfile and Corbis, Oscar says it is a very different arrangement because they are much more meticulous about registering photos whereas Getty and many other stock photo companies are quite lax and sloppy about it.

Matthew

1935
This is a teaser announcement.

I am currently working on plans to dramatically change the look, feel, tone, and even the way ELI operates in 2012 (which is less than 2 months away).  Long-timers will know that periodic changes and the evolution of ELI has been a constant. ELI's web presence and readership has continued to expand over the years thanks to the help of Facebook, Twitter, Google, Scribd, Youtube, Vimeo, Blip.tv, and our ELI community members.

As with every major change that has been made prior, there are those will embrace and adapt to changes and there are those who dislike and disagree with the changes. I expect there will be some interesting reactions when upcoming changes are publicly announced.

Stay tuned for more announcements in the days and remaining weeks to come.

Matthew Chan

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