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46
. . .
We're going to disagree here because there are an infinite number of ways in which you could photograph that baseball to make it look unique or different. There's the background, lighting, framing, depth of field and a myriad of other elements to the creative composition of a photograph that means your shot of a baseball could stand head and shoulders above all the other shots out there -
. . .

I can politely disagree with you here.  I think the current law agrees with your point of view in most cases and I wouldn't break the law.  That doesn't mean I agree with the law.  Most of our laws make common sense and are easy to not "accidentally" violate.  Not so with copyright law.  The idea that a simple unremarkable picture of a common item like a baseball is important enough to protect with life crushing fines of tens of thousands of dollars is just absurd.
But to each his own.  Its really not hard at all to avoid running afoul of the copyright law now that I know that intent and having a paid receipt obtained in good faith is meaningless regarding guilt.  If I need a picture of a baseball, I'll snap it myself.

47
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Copyright in Space
« on: May 25, 2013, 12:23:38 PM »
Quote
But when the man fell to Earth in a neat and safe descent a few days ago, after a five-month stay in orbit, should he have been greeted by copyright police?

No.  However, if he would have held up a picture of a shopping cart, seagull, calculator, etc.  then he should fully expect to have the appropriate demand letters for thousands of dollars waiting on him back on Earth.  lol

48
$1.50 is low.  Minimum statutory award for a registered image is $200 .  MF usually has their s__t together.  Again, if it were me, I'd get some help from Oscar on this one. 

49
I suppose MF could register the images properly and then file a new suit for "actual damages".  I'm guessing they're going to quietly drop the whole effort.

50
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: I too am a victim of Getty Images
« on: May 22, 2013, 01:10:03 PM »
Everything below is just my opinion.  Again, Im not a lawyer and not trying to give you legal advice:

I don't think "innocent infringer" applies in your case.  You knew copyright existed, you were just wrong about who had the copyright. See http://www.robic.ca/admin/pdf/325/142.024.pdf  That's the bad news.

Good news is that, although DavidVSGoliath may right about the damages amounts, and whether or not your use would be considered commercial, there is also the following clause that applies to damages in commercial use cases:
Quote
(2) If a copyright owner has made an election under subsection (1) and the defendant satisfies the court that the defendant was not aware and had no reasonable grounds to believe that the defendant had infringed copyright, the court may reduce the amount of the award under paragraph (1)(a) to less than $500, but not less than $200.
Quote
(5) In exercising its discretion under subsections (1) to (4), the court shall consider all relevant factors, including

(a) the good faith or bad faith of the defendant;


(b) the conduct of the parties before and during the proceedings;


(c) the need to deter other infringements of the copyright in question; and


(d) in the case of infringements for non-commercial purposes, the need for an award to be proportionate to the infringements, in consideration of the hardship the award may cause to the defendant, whether the infringement was for private purposes or not, and the impact of the infringements on the plaintiff.

I would think a reasonable offer to settle your case would be in the $200 range.  I also don't think they would accept it, and would continue to send demands at least until any statute of limitation expires.

I would really be shocked to see them take a case like yours to court.

I could be wrong, but that's my take on it.

51
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: I too am a victim of Getty Images
« on: May 21, 2013, 11:04:15 PM »
wow.  I hadn't even heard of this before now.  check out this link:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Make-Money-on-Ebay-Resell-Scams-Fraud-And-The-Beatles/10000000002138294/g.html

The guy that sold you this may not even believe he is doing anything wrong (and I'm not accusing).

Seems like it works like this:

The first person makes a compilation of stuff he doesn't own and sells it on ebay along with "resell rights".  You can imagine how it proliferates from there.

I would think this is going to be (or has been) a boon for the infringement income for the real copyrights holders.

skolish, get some real legal advice pertinent to Canada for sure (im no lawyer), but I would be shocked if you ended up in court over this single image.

52
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: I too am a victim of Getty Images
« on: May 21, 2013, 09:02:43 PM »
would you mind posting a link to the ebay product you purchased?  Maybe the creator of the content is trying to license it through Getty AND the supplier you bought it from. Also did the product you bought off of ebay come with a license agreement?  Would love to see that as well if you don't mind sharing.

53
. . .
An example: I hire an overseas firm to design a website for me.  He uses infringing images, but tells me they're his own, or he has the rights to them, or whatever.  Maybe he doesn't even say anything if I'm not knowledgeable enough to ask.  I get a demand letter from true copyright holder. I explain the situation and take down the image.  The copyright holder asks for proof and I show him the invoice from the overseas firm.  I get warned (not fined) and we part ... maybe even with me as a new customer.  I know that isn't the current copyright law, but that's how I think it should work.

It can work that way and, legally, if you have all your ducks in a row and can unequivocally prove what is termed innocent infringement, then a rightsholder should know that pursuit of a claim against you is really in no-one's best interests.

If a rightsholder still pursues you after you've produced evidence that you absolutely, genuinely had no idea that you would be committing an infringement based on accepting the work of a third party... well, I personally don't agree with their stance, even though the letter of the law might permit them to do so.

Besides, the rightsholder has to know that under US law, their claim might get struck down to as little as $200 even if they prevail. Far better to educate the infringer and work with them than roll the dice through the courts.
. . .

And here we have our common ground.  If companies like Getty and Masterfile shared this view, I really don't think this website would exist.  I wouldn't be posting here almost for certain, as I never would have had a reason to research the issue.
Instead, I'm taking my own photos and will likely never use nor buy a stock image again.

54
With some of the stuff I've seen, I'm not convinced that this isn't going on.  What is just as bad, IMO, is essentially turning a blind eye to it because it is helping increase infringement revenue.  Honestly, if this weren't the case, wouldn't they be doing at least simple things to slow down the proliferation of their images on these "free" sights?  Things like watermarking their images.

Here's the problem: when a client licenses and downloads an image legitimately, that photograph won't have a visible watermark on it. It might have a unique filename and embedded IPTC and EXIF metadata with information about whom the rightsholder is and further still, it might also use a digital watermark such as DigiMarc to allow uses of that photograph to be tracked and traced.

The file can be renamed, the IPTC and EXIF data can be stripped out - which just leaves the digital watermark (if it is present).. and all that serves as is an electronic 'fingerprint' which allows the uses of the photograph to be found and then checked to see if they are legitimate.

Another issue is that login details for image libraries are routinely traded online so that the blatant, don't-give-a-shit infringers can access high-resolution images for their own sites; they buy or trade these passwords and the second that one becomes deactivated, you can bet that a half dozen more spring up.

A good many of these people live in countries whom don't have strong IP laws on their books and, worse still, they use tech such as VPNs or IP masking to make it nigh-on impossible to track them down, let alone shut them down.

At the very least, shouldn't an innocent infringer (overseas website designer victim) with an invoice be given a second chance?

I'm not sure I follow you here - please elaborate so I can get an understanding of your point.

Should a simple picture of an everyday object (a baseball for example) be copyrightable?  I don't believe it should.

We're going to disagree here because there are an infinite number of ways in which you could photograph that baseball to make it look unique or different. There's the background, lighting, framing, depth of field and a myriad of other elements to the creative composition of a photograph that means your shot of a baseball could stand head and shoulders above all the other shots out there -

As a fixed expression of an idea, any photograph can be copyrighted. The question of how unique such a photograph is might determine its value in the mind of the end user... but that still does not give anyone the right to just appropriate it.

Think on it this way: you want a burger. You can get a $0.99 one at McDonalds, or a $19.99 gourmet burger at an upscale restaurant. Essentially, both products are the same - so you have to make a value judgement on your needs versus your ability to pay. Is the gourmet burger worth $20? Is it worth twenty times the McDonald's burger? Probably not... but you can choose what to eat, the same way you can choose to not eat either of them.

Shouldn't demands/awards for actual damages be substantiated by a sales history of the actual image and/or similar image sales? and NOT on some inflated dreamed up retail "list price" that no reasonable person would pay?

No to the first part, though I somewhat agree to the second part - because providing such information during legal process can back up a claim quite a bit. Here's a very recent example of how that worked in court

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWPCC/2013/26.html

If it is unique/creative/important enough to copyright, doesn't it deserve it's own single copyright registration?  Is "bulk uploading" of hundreds or thousands of unremarkable images for copyright not just another cog in the infringement demand machine/scheme?

Again, I'm going to disagree here. On a work week, I shoot thousands of images and sometimes hundreds get sent out to clients during that week. I bulk register because a) it's permitted and b) it's the right balance of cost vs. effectiveness for both artists and the copyright office.

If it were mandated that every single work be registered individually, then only major content creators could afford to register their copyright works - and this would leave small businesses and the self-employed ripe for exploitation.

On the first point: 
Its not my fault that photographers live in a bad neighborhood (the internet).  An analogy: If I buy a used part and it turns out to be stolen (unbeknownst to me), I return it.  I'm not fined and harassed for "statutory" or "actual" damages as far as I understand it.  I'm not a criminal.  My "punishment" and "lesson learned" is that I lost the part I bought.  I'm more careful and knowledgeable next time.

On the second point:
An example: I hire an overseas firm to design a website for me.  He uses infringing images, but tells me they're his own, or he has the rights to them, or whatever.  Maybe he doesn't even say anything if I'm not knowledgeable enough to ask.  I get a demand letter from true copyright holder. I explain the situation and take down the image.  The copyright holder asks for proof and I show him the invoice from the overseas firm.  I get warned (not fined) and we part ... maybe even with me as a new customer.  I know that isn't the current copyright law, but that's how I think it should work.

Third point:
I'm talking about unremarkable shots. I know you still disagree, but I'm not entirely convinced that a court would disagree with my position in many cases.
On your burger example: should I be fined $30,000 because the hamburger I bought from a street vendor in India looks too much like a big mac?

Fourth Point:
Statutory damages for registered image infringements are the current law.  I understand that, I just don't agree with it in the case of innocent infringement.  Thankfully, at least the court is allowed to lower statutory damages to $200 per innocent infringement, but I still disagree with it.
For unregistered images, it's my understanding that my opinion is in line with the courts to award "actual damages" which is fair market value.

Fifth Point:
I really want photographers to be successful by providing a product that people want to buy.  I really do. I'm really happy for them when that happens.  I just don't like to see some poor unknowing chap harassed for tens of thousands of dollars because he unknowingly used an unremarkable picture of a bowling ball in some silly blog post that 10 people read (a made-up example).

55
It's also not right, in my opinion, to bulk upload to the copyright office a picture of every single animal, vegetable, and inanimate object you can think of, then send a crawler out to find the inevitable group of unknowing innocent infringers, and threaten them with a $30,000 per infringement lawsuit if they don't mail a check for $1500 or so.

I'd really hope that there aren't any creatives out there exploiting the system by knowingly seeding their works just so they can issue legal demands or court proceedings from infringements; that's fraud on the same level as people whom fake accidents, injuries or illness so they can instruct an ambulance-chasing attorney to collect for them.  . . .

With some of the stuff I've seen, I'm not convinced that this isn't going on.  What is just as bad, IMO, is essentially turning a blind eye to it because it is helping increase infringement revenue.  Honestly, if this weren't the case, wouldn't they be doing at least simple things to slow down the proliferation of their images on these "free" sights?  Things like watermarking their images.

At the very least, shouldn't an innocent infringer (overseas website designer victim) with an invoice be given a second chance?

Should a simple picture of an everyday object (a baseball for example) be copyrightable?  I don't believe it should.

Shouldn't demands/awards for actual damages be substantiated by a sales history of the actual image and/or similar image sales? and NOT on some inflated dreamed up retail "list price" that no reasonable person would pay?

If it is unique/creative/important enough to copyright, doesn't it deserve it's own single copyright registration?  Is "bulk uploading" of hundreds or thousands of unremarkable images for copyright not just another cog in the infringement demand machine/scheme?

56
. . . We need copyrights, we need laws to protect copyrights, but we also really need some means to address how the internet has impacted creatives without us resorting to the 'nuclear option' of lawsuits laden with multiple zeroes ahead of the decimal point.

I agree with that. 

It's not right that some people are blatantly ripping images off (that someone put a lot of time and resources into) and using them, sometimes making money from it.

It's also not right, in my opinion, to bulk upload to the copyright office a picture of every single animal, vegetable, and inanimate object you can think of, then send a crawler out to find the inevitable group of unknowing innocent infringers, and threaten them with a $30,000 per infringement lawsuit if they don't mail a check for $1500 or so. Not to mention that the group of innocent infringers can be multiplied exponentially by doing something to make sure overseas website designers (who don't give two sh__s about copyright law or who theyre getting into trouble) have access to the images to use in their work.

We need a fair copyright law that makes sense.

57
I still can't see the importance either way.  The bottom line is you're either going to wait out the statute of limitations and see if they sue, or you're going to negotiate a settlement.  With Masterfile, if it were me, I would go with some professional help with Oscar. 

Yes, I took it down immediately based on all the advice I found here and elsewhere.  I know the "respond in five business days" thing is just meant to pressure and frustrate me.  My concern is if I'm trying to frustrate THEM with replies asking for more information, if I don't send things certified mail then they can play the "we never got it!!" game (though my first mail clearly says that they should C&D contact with me unless they answer my questions.)  And whether their email responses would stand up as an appropriate response in court, or are more safely ignored because they're not on paper/trackable.

58
I would think they would be useful for starting the clock on the statute of limitations.  I don't see how the notifications would be significantly important for anything else if it got to court, unless you continued to infringe after the notification which might be seen as blatant and willfull infringement which could affect a damage award.  Why are you worried about the notifications if it goes to court?  You did take the image down, right?

What's the validity of these "registered emails" as communications?  Would they stand up in court as notifications?

Should all of my hard copy replies be certified?  Because they have to go to Canada, they're not cheap.

59
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Question about client follow up
« on: May 11, 2013, 02:51:37 PM »
If I were your client, an indemnity contract signed by you would make me feel better.  I'd get an attorneys take on that first, though.  Not sure what else you could do for them at this point.

Simply explain that no news is good news, the attorney is on top of it and if there is anything to report, you'll let them know in a timely manner..Re-assure them that with over 800 letters sent, none have resulted in a lawsuit of any kind.

60
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: An Experiment Against Getty
« on: April 11, 2013, 11:11:59 AM »
For what its worth I threw together this visual that shows the flow of a demand as I understand it.  The heavier the line the more likely the path as I see it.  This my understanding of a Getty situation.  For Masterfile there probably needs to be more weight on the lines involving registration.

Maybe someone more artistically inclined than me can correct and enhance the idea of putting this into a flowchart. 

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r771/mcrasterhd/copyright_zps71ae7918.jpg

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