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Messages - Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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631
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty Images in Canada
« on: April 23, 2013, 12:21:52 AM »
If the letter states that you have violated US copyright law and was sent from a US office like Seattle then you can use Oscar's defense letter program.  If the letter states you are in violation of Canadian copyright law then Oscar can not help you as he is not licensed in Canada.  If you are not sure contact Oscar's office and he can tell you for sure if he can help you or not.

Hope this helps, please keep us posted to your progress.

Thank you all for your generous help regarding the registration.  It appears that I am in decent shape to defend myself.  I have a different topic to discuss, hence the new post.  I live in Canada.  The letter I received is from Getty Images in Seattle, WA.  The contact email is [email protected] but the remission details are as follows:  Remit to: Bank of America Getty Images Canada Inc.  Address in Toronto Ontario.  So the bank is located in Toronto but the head office in Seattle.  Am I under US or Canadian jurisdiction? Or does it matter. How do I know. I did a bit of reading on the forum about Canadian cases and noticed that some people were cautious offering recommendations about Canada.  Also, I'm trying to figure out whether to write my own letter or get Oscar to represent me.  I'm leaning towards Oscar because it gives me more peace of mind but then would he represent me in this case?

632
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Help checking image registration
« on: April 22, 2013, 08:12:35 AM »
As of 8 am this morning there are 93,027 images in the stone collection. I agree with Robert that the odds of Getty going after you for one images are very low.  It is my opinion that Getty filed the recent one image lawsuit to make a statement that they will do it and to be able to include this on future demand letters.

@gimby: Just because an image appears on Getty's site,does not mean they have exclusive license to it, nor does it mean it is registered or registered properly..It only shows that the image is on their site.

@a_dezwart:  The stone collection consists of hundreds if not thousands of images, the changes of the image in question being registered since the advernet ruling are pretty slim IMHO, and I still think them filing suit over 1 images is going to be very slim, as it is a very risky and expensive proposition.

633
Legal Controversies Forum / Re: A message from the little guy
« on: April 19, 2013, 07:05:37 PM »
Thank you for the clarification.  :)

634
Great find Robert and great article.  I think there is a lot there that could apply for Matthew as well in regards to freedom of speech.

635
Agreed, it would be different if they has used a variation of the Re-Max balloon or something like that but just colors on a sign i wouldn't think so. 

636
Legal Controversies Forum / Re: A message from the little guy
« on: April 18, 2013, 08:27:57 PM »
Quote
You can register batches of photos with the Copyright Office by uploading them as a .zip file that doesn't exceed 170MB in size. You can also have multiple .zip files form part of each application. This is very handy as I can sometimes shoot up to 4,000 ~ 5,000 frames in a night and I register all of them.

You may want to read Masterfile v Chaga which ruled last fall that this type of registration is not valid should you need to take someone who has infringed one of your works to court.  This method of registration was adopted by the copyright office to make it easier on them even though the law states it must be individual registration.

Just trying to help you out should the need arise.  You can always register the individual image within 3 months of the date you find the infringement too.

this is also an issue with Getty Images, most of their images are not registered and the few that are have been done in batch for the most part.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/oscar-michelen-defends-chaga-against-$6-million-masterfile-lawsuit/

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/masterfile's-copyright-registration-method-held-invalid-by-california-court/


637
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: new image bot/spider/scraper
« on: April 18, 2013, 08:12:39 PM »
LOL,  thanks Oscar, that post gave me a much needed laugh! ;D  I'm mostly lost too.

What the f*ck are you people talking about?  :o

638
Agreed, remember Corbis v Nick Star, Corbis won the case and legal fees, the court determined that both were too high and lowered the amount.  When it was all said and done it ended up costing Corbis around 125k for the win.  That was also providing that they got paid their judgement too.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/my-analysis-of-corbis-vs-nick-starr-case-outcome/

It is interesting in so much as Getty have newish owners but most likely there is a particular reason why this single image case was filed.

If I had to guess I'd bet on the image actually being taken from Getty's website or the image was exclusively licensed to somebody at the time so Getty can more easily prove damages.

It would be too expensive for Getty to start filing suits against every infringer because most wouldn't have the means to pay even if Getty won. It also wouldn't be long before it got noticed by a politician a lot more than sending threatening letters would.

I'll keep an eye on it with interest though.

639
I agree with you Jerry, Getty may be doing this to claim they do go after single images on their demand letters.  I'm adding tin foil to my shopping list now. ;)

640
You will be in GREAT hands with Oscar!

641
Legal Controversies Forum / Re: A message from the little guy
« on: April 13, 2013, 07:55:22 PM »
DavidVGoliath

Quote
Greg, thanks for your welcome - it's a appreciated.

You are very welcome.

Quote
I've ran into similar issues to yours quite a bit in the last two years: there appears to be a very common misconception that because a photograph can be accessed by anyone i.e. freely / publicly available (especially online), it must be in the public domain.

The facts are quite contrary: an image on a website might have been authored by the person whom runs or operates the site, or they might have obtained permission or license to use the image from the author or their representative, or it may indeed be a public domain image.

In any instance, the correct etiquette (so as to not fall foul of a legal demand) would be to contact the site owner and request permission - in writing - to use the photographs from their site; their response should either be to grant permission or inform you as to where they sourced the photograph from.

In the case of being given permission, you'll have a valid defence against wilful infringement if it ever occurs that they were not the author or rightsholder of the image in question (i.e. they lied to you); retaining a copy of the message will also serve to demonstrate innocent infringement i.e. you had a good faith belief that you were acting within the letter of the law.

I can't argue with any of that and if I knew then what I know now it would never have happened but unfortunately most people are not aware of the ins and outs of copyright law or any copyright law.  I now only use my own images as I trust nothing else.

Quote
Yep, this plain part sucks - no argument from me. My experience of certain lawyers is that they operate on an eleventh hour basis i.e. they only prepare and provide information when it is absolutely necessary for them to do so; if they aren't required to provide a copyright registration certificate number until suit is filed, you can be dead certain that some of them will wait right up till that point to do so.

In an ideal world, they'd have all their ducks in a row before they act - and some law firms absolutely require this before they'll even take on a case for you. For others, there are real-world time constraints on obtaining certain information and whilst it would be morally and ethically preferable for them to provide proof of copyrights when requested... yeah, they can drag their heels.

If the image is not registered they need to say that, but again they are presenting me with an invoice and refusing to show me they have the exclusive rights or any rights they claim especially when it has been shown in court Getty may not have the rights they claim.  Again, if Getty would have conducted their negotiations as you say you conduct yours we would have reached an agreement very quickly. Telling someone you will pay me this amount based on my word you owe it to me or I will sue you, I will give you nothing to show the validity of my claim and if you don't pay me now I will stick it to you in court for much much more is not the way to reach out to someone.


Quote
There's no way of knowing, but what I take away from your comment is this: the issue of copyrights and what you can / should / shouldn't and can't do online needs to be addressed at a very fundamental level, via non-inflammatory discourse and cool, measured reasoning so that nobody falls foul of the law or abuses it.

You are correct and I am enjoying having this discussion with you.  I agree that these issues need to be addressed and I also feel the law needs to be updated to reflect the modern internet.


642
You have basically three choices.  First, you can ignore it.  Some here prefer that choice however I do not.  Second, you can fight it yourself which is the route I picked for myself.  My fight is well documented in the thread posted in my last message. Lastly, if you do not want to deal with the fight you can use Oscar's letter program and Getty may no longer contact you. 

If you would like to send me your letter I would be happy to look at it and it may be sent to [email protected]

643
Legal Controversies Forum / Re: A message from the little guy
« on: April 13, 2013, 09:19:16 AM »
Welcome to the forums DavidvGoliath,

First off thank you for coming on to the forms and sharing your experiences and point of view and I would like to start off by saying I firmly believe that an artist should be compensated for their work and you have every right to collect when your work has been infringed upon.

Having said that let me tell you my experiences and you can see the frustration that exists for the nonwillful infringer. I was well aware that images have copyrights and you could not just taken image from a Google search and stick it on your website or in your blog. I run a small remodeling business in all of the images on my site with the exception of two where my own and of my own work.

I have a blog on my site offering free advice to homeowners on things they can do themselves to maintain their homes to avoid having to pay someone like me to come out to repair them. One blog post was tips on how to make your home more energy efficient in the summer to keep your air-conditioning costs down and I put a humorous picture of a Beagle dog standing in front of an oscillating fan cooling himself. This image was found on a website belonging to someone we will call John Doe. John Doe had several "galleries" with pictures in them, the picture in question was located in a gallery titled "public" . Not only was the image in a public gallery but every image in this gallery had John Doe's name on it with a title leading the person to believe this was his image which he had placed in a public gallery for people to use.

My first indication that this was not John Doe's image was when I received a settlement demand letter from Getty in a style that look like a lawsuit was being prepared against me, telling me I am guilty of copyright infringement and that I must pay $875 within 14 days or this would be escalated. I replied to Getty including screenshots of where and how the image was obtained stating everything appears that the image belongs to John Doe, I had remove the image immediately and I was willing to negotiate with Getty if they had exclusive rights as they claimed but please send me proof of your claim.

Getty said they will not send me any of the information requested and to go to their website and view the image and that is all the proof I need. They also said in their letter they would only provide proof of claim during discovery or in other words when they sue me. In an effort to settle the matter amicably I even had a local IP attorney send Getty a letter letting them know we were willing to negotiate but we just needed the information I had requested and if Getty was not sending it due to confidentiality agreements we would both be willing to sign a confidentiality agreement of our own barring us from disclosing any information sent other than with Getty for the purposes of settlement. Getty reply to this letter saying they would not send the information because it takes extra time and cost extra money to send us the proof and once again telling us they would only provide proof when they sue us.

This is the issue that many of us have with businesses like Getty images using settlement demand letters as a business model rather than truly protecting the rights of artists such as yourself. As business people we both know if you present an invoice to someone and they reasonably ask show me how you arrived at this figure in that I owe you this much we would never tell that person I will only show it to you when I sue you now pay me.

I see by your statements that you do not do this and you gladly provide information requested and try to settle the matter amicably. From what I have read if the image in question had been your image I'm sure we would have reached an agreement easily very quickly.

I am personally not aware of any of the regular participants here on this forum who think they should be able to take images and just use them for free. It is the fact that Getty treats nonwillful infringers so poorly and refuses to listen to anything they say yet continue to demand immediate payment or escalation.

I can also show you where Getty has sent out these letters over public domain images and one case settlement demand letters were sent to a Dan Evans over a picture of Henry David Thoreau taken in 1856. Once Mr. Evans pointed out this image was in public domain and he knew copyright law Getty immediately back down and dismissed the claim. Another case of this and an attorney general complaint was for a picture of an F-16 fighter jet taken from a number fighter jet. Since the picture was taken by a government employee and released it was public domain, again Getty immediately back down and dismissed the claim but how many people have fallen victim to this that do not know copyright law and paid Getty their average settlement demand claim of $1000 per image?

In conclusion I want to thank you again for coming here and sharing your story and I sincerely hope you will stick around and continue to participate. I want to reiterate again I firmly believe that artists intellectual property rights should be protected and they do deserve to be compensated for their work.

Here are links backing up statements I have made above:

Correspondence between Getty and myself

http://www.scribd.com/collections/3777294/Correspondence-with-Getty


Thread whereGetty Images try to claim rights to 1856 Henry David Thoreau picture:

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/don't-pay-getty-thank-you-eli/


Attorney general complaint over Getty claiming rights to public domain image of an F-16:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/104557917/Getty-Images-Attorney-General-Complaint-19

Complaints I filed against Getty images with various agencies, Getty's responses in my replies to those responses

http://www.scribd.com/collections/3777301/Complaint-letters-filed-against-Getty-Images

644
That is a great article and it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy  ;).

I find it even better when it states that Carreon was the one who drafted the settlement and didn't include anything about we each pay our own fees. 

Quote
Judge Seeborg rejects Carreon's argument that the settlement precluded an award of attorneys fees. Carreon drafted his own offer of judgment. He could have made it clear that the offer precluded fees. He didn't.

Defendant cannot now escape the consequences of his inartful drafting.

Asshat.

645
Excellent work and congratulation on making your three year mark!

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