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Messages - Matthew Chan

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76
Higbee Associates Letter & Lawsuits Forum / Re: Help Exposing Higbee?
« on: September 09, 2018, 11:44:10 PM »
I don't like the idea of entirely ignoring a letter because you leave others to assume the worst about you and your situation. I think people should explain the merits of whatever their arguments are before going dark. There are generally mitigating circumstances but no one is mind-reader.

You bear the entire risk of ignoring it without communicating your issues of concerns to mitigate the motivate to escalate.  The problem is most people are trying to have it both ways.  They want someone to stop pursuing them for money but give no good reason to NOT pursue. 

Going dark is a "hope and pray" strategy. Not going to say it doesn't work because it occasionally does but you leave that ENTIRELY at the whims of the accusers.

See my post of today.     Does anyone have any followups on their 'small' cases?   Is ignoring their letter a viable strategy?

77
UK Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Extortion Letter from PicRights UK
« on: September 08, 2018, 07:08:00 PM »
It does not surprise me there are very few lawsuits if at all. Most of this process is based on psychological pressure of a legal threat.  They are testing the waters.

I suspect the legal process in the UK costs money, effort, and legal fees to engage. That barrier of entry makes people think twice.

And I also suspect that even with a win, getting money from an unwilling payer who is digging in is not an easy thing to collect.

That is why there is a high motivation to settle. If not, they get nothing.

I had received a few letters from PicRights every few weeks for 2 months or so. Saying the usual "You owe us for this blah blah blah". I began receiving them after I stupidly replied to a previous different extortion copyright type email (CreditReform representing Ryde GmbH) basically telling them to f off.

The letters seem really unprofessional, the language used, the formatting. Even the paper it's printed on seems a bit off.

When Googling "PicRights" 8 out of the 1st 10 results are about whether it's a scam or not...and I'm yet to find anyone, either on this forum or otherwise, who has actually had legal action taken against them.

The letters and emails have since stopped after completely ignoring them (Haven't received one for almost 2 months)

Although I will post on this forum if there are any further developments...

Edit: Of course, I removed the images in question immediately. Just in case...

78
Robert often has a better memory than me of the last 10 years worth of posts. It IS important to know that Robert is correct. We have discussed the possibility of intentional seeding but it is the rare instance where we directly accused someone of it.

Generally, we found that there was an unintended benefit of image virality and piracy for some photographers. Some more than others.

In the 10 yrs of the existence of ELI I can think of maybe and I say maybe one instance where a photographer "may have" seeded images, and if so I don't think it was done with the intention of filing copyright suits, I think that idea came to the troll later down the road, when he realized i mighty be a good idea to send letters.

79
Glad to have you here and offering your insights. We don't always have to agree to get along.

Oscar isn't out here as often anymore so having some legal voices (even anonymously) is a good thing. Different voices represent different interests, different venues, different expertise, or different life experiences.  All can be true simultaneously.

The end reader does have a challenge synthesizing all the various viewpoints being shared. I think we can all agree that ultimately, the end letter recipient has the responsibility and burden to choose the course of action and insights they deem most appropriate for them.

It my hope that with the spirited debates and exchanges, a greater wisdom prevails that supercedes any one person including myself. 

Just voicing my perspective based on my experience. You are perfectly free to disagree with my opinion. Readers can decide for themselves which advice is more pertinent to their own particular situation. Part of the reason that I started posting on these boards is because I have found that is a lot well-meaning, but seriously misguided advice. I wanted to offer an alternate perspective in the hopes that people who are targeted by these photographers get the best information possible so they can make the right decision for their own situation.

80
Sorry, I just had to say, I laughed when I read your mention of Tom Schwabel. Nice to see a bit of humor in these forums.  ;D

But I do agree that "intentional" seeding is generally a rare thing. It is more of a case of virality or piracy (intentional or not) that occurs.

Let me start my saying congratulations to UnfairlyTargeted for not mentioning Tom Schwabel in a post.  Huge step.   

Now if we can just disabuse you of the silly notion that everyone who enforces their copyrights is seeding images.  For the love of God, get over it.

81
Just to be clear, I acknowledge that there are bad actors who probably do seed the Internet to profit from infringers. However, I believe it is a very small portion of parties who do that sort of thing.

I wrote elsewhere, I could post every photo I have taken and I would probably starve to death hoping someone would "infringe" upon them. Just because you put it out there, it doesn't mean people will come.

There are more extortionists who take UNFAIR ADVANTAGE of the system, than actual seeders. Nick Youngson and RM Media come to mind. That is a gamed system that he and Higbee are currently taking advantage of with people's ignorance of Creative Commons system.

Quite frankly, I have no love of copyright extortionists, but it doesn't blind me to the fact that piracy is quite rampant which gave birth to the whole copyright extortion industry.

I think if we want credibility to our defense opinions and viewpoints, we must not embrace unprovable conspiracy theories. Now, if you don't believe that, all we can do is agree to disagree.

But I just don't believe that there is an intentional seeding by most parties. There may be unintended viral effects of some images because of the nature of their work.

Or, the fact that there are 70 cases means this guy is another POS image seeder.  How else would you have 70 defendants to sue in court plus hundreds of others that settle before going to court if you haven't been off spreading your image around in deceptive actions to trap people into using them?


82
Would you agree that sometimes there is a fine line between telling a narrative vs. a "personal attack"?

For example, someone shoots and kills another person with a gun. 

Someone says "He shot the woman in cold blood". Clearly a subjective interpretation but is that really a personal attack?

In my limited experience, lawyers talk about narratives ALL THE TIME! They often hinge upon subtle words and phrasing vs. blunt and flamboyant words and phrases.

Narratives matter. The court system is full of flawed human beings.  They are not objective, fact-driven robots only.  Judges are "judging" and narratives matter whether they want to admit it or not. Facts matter but they can be interpreted in different shades. I think many letter recipients lack the insight or understanding that narratives have sway and influence in the communication process.

In my experience, when litigants attempt to make personal attacks against the other side that have little or nothing to do with the ultimate merits of the case, all it does is piss off the judge and reflect poorly on the party bringing it up in the first place. Judges hate personal attacks and generally view them as a waste of time. It's also seen as a pretty obvious sign that you aren't confident in your case and don't have a very strong argument on the merits.

83
Higbee Associates Letter & Lawsuits Forum / Re: Got Higbee letter today
« on: September 08, 2018, 06:06:36 PM »
I oppose the idea of impromptu phone calls. You could say or reveal things you shouldn't. I believe in utilizing well thought out written communications to convey your issues of concern.

Been dealing with this PicRights nonsense for almost 2 years now, now I get today a letter from this apparently slimy Higbee firm that I've seen a number of comments about.     No way am I paying their claimed $1800.     I don't believe I even inadvertently took anyone's copyrighted photo, but took down a similar looking photo that I had way back on my very small website.     I called this firm just now to tell them to stop sending these harassing letters, and of course they gave me the 'we will settle for $1000' routine.    Then I hung up --- I probably shouldn't have even bothered calling in the first place.    For the time being doing nothing.

84
TedStryker,

I want to say I love your outside of the box thinking. I commend you for it. There is no question about the timing issue of buying after the fact.   But when you spent the $10 and got a receipt from the party who is pursuing you, you now have good evidence that the market value of the image is $10!!! The market price was set by the accuser himself!!!

The best part is that you should be able to continue to use the image!  There is no wilful infringement if you went out of your way to buy/license the image to continue to use it.

I speak as a non-lawyer that spending the $10 is a good investment and a good tool in case there is any litigation or legal argument.

In fact, you could take it a step further and buy/license the same image twice (two $10 licenses) and keep the receipt.

Youngson images have a ridiculously low market value and there is little risk for any letter recipient to just go buy/license the damned image and get the receipt for it to help mitigate the infringement claim.

I get your point at the timing of the purchase of the license, but if Youngson is selling a license for $10, what's his reasonable damage especially when I pulled the image after getting the Higbee form letter and images?


85
Certainly, the timing is questionable but I think the $10 was well spent and a potentially good insurance policy.  I like the idea a lot. Buy the license even if it is after the fact and keep the receipt to show proof of the market value!

The timing is important, as it shows you did infringe, since you purchased a license afterwards. The good thing here is that by you purchasing the license afterward, it shows that the image is only worth $10.00 in the eyes of the artist himself.. Any judge that sees this ( which they won't) would probably snicker at Youngson and Higbee, then send a clear message to them to not file these BS lawsuits..

86
I can't speak broadly but Oscar and I have expressed our opinions on the matter of single-image lawsuits. It doesn't happen because it is generally not worthwhile. From the Getty Images perspective, they had probably hundreds of cases at any given time. They couldn't easily file lawsuits on EVERYONE.

We believe Masterfile tried the same thing 5-6 years ago with an onslaught of lawsuits but they abruptly stopped. They didn't stop to suddenly become good Samaritans. I think they stopped because the risk/reward/return ratios were ultimately not good.

I think a lot of the cases Masterfile pursued were not collectible or that the legal fees incurred were too great for the time, money, and energy expended.

There were also a couple of setback cases where the court didn't overly favor plaintiffs over "clear cut" infringements.

And please point me to small time cases involving small parties that come anywhere close to $150K. And even then, how many small time cases would actually pay the full 6-figure amount?

I can say as a fact there are MANY people who cannot pay any 6-figure judgment even if they wanted to. People, even under legal threats, cannot even pay student loans they clearly used, benefited, and owe for far less. Same with medical debt. There are a lot of worthless paper in the world. That is why much of it are bought and sold at pennies on the dollar.

Copyright judgments rank pretty low in the big scheme of potential debt and judgments. I say they can stand in line for a long time or take a reasonable settlement.

And most people tell me they settle because of the legal fees to hire a lawyer to defend, not the fear of the actual judgment itself.


I think the reason that you haven't seen single-image lawsuits go all the way to a jury trial is that defendants will want to minimise their risk of being slapped with a hefty judgement against them. In the event that a plaintiff can prove wilful infringement, damages can be as high as $150,000, and that's before any provable DMCA violations are factored for.

87
My answer is pretty basic.  It is just easier and more practical for both parties to settle than for either side have a protracted battle. It is the rare bird who will battle it out of principle.

Back in 2008 with my squabble with Getty Images, I seriously considered settling because they offered $500 to settle. But I was pretty pissed about the situation and the circumstances surrounding it because I felt totally blindsided by ignorant actions taken by an overseas graphic artist who got me in hot water.

I kept doing research and the more I dug into Google, the more pissed I got and what I fell into which is why I started the ELI website, which in turn, attracted more information and insights.

I thought to myself, fine, I might lose but I was not just going to hand over the money. I would muddle my way through the federal court system and fight tooth and nail the best I could. I figured I would just stumble my way through the federal court system and probably lose but I would learn a shitload from the entire experience. I viewed it as "tuition" for a front row seat at a "live seminar experience".  Without having to pay legal fees, I figured I had a lot more room to maneuver and wasn't as constrained.

I was emboldened when I found how much opposing lawyers HATED dealing with pro se defendants. As a backup measure, I won't go into specifics but let's say I was going to exercise my lawful First Amendment rights in a very big way because ELI has already been launched and I had a growing platform.

I figured if I was going to lose, I wouldn't go down without inflicting some scorched earth along the way. This is one of these situations where I tell people NOT to follow what I did. I was (and probably still am to a degree) a bit irrational.  (Do as I say, don't do as I did which was fraught with unknown risk.)  I was never quite sure why Getty stopped pursuing me after only 3 or 4 go-arounds. My case was surprisingly not escalated to anyone.

The point being is that one never really knows for sure why certain cases go forward to lawsuit and others don't go anywhere. But I have a good idea who are more likely targets than others and who are more likely to receive lawsuits than others. But my opinions are grounded in life experience/insight and personal/professional observations than any empirical evidence.

I tend to believe in executing a STRONG strategy to encourage a highly-motivated settlement. The downside to that is that MOST people don't have the knowledge or have the internal fortitude to do so.


There are lots of reasons that these court cases never go through a complete trial.   

First, the outcomes are predictable.  This predictability comes from the fact that 99% of photo infringement cases are straight forward.   Typically, the only real question is the award amount.    This predicabiliy greatly increases the chance for settlement as there is very little reason for one party to think the outcome will be wildly different than the other party.   As long as one party is not drastically over reaching, they settle. 

Second and equally important is the fact that almost all copyright cases involving photos can be resolved with a good motion for summary judgment.   It is very rare that there are issues of fact that need to be determined at trial by a judge or jury in a photo copyright case.

Third, many judges require that the parties go to court sponsored mediation before trial.  The mediators, who are either retired judges or experienced litigators, are very good at getting parties to settle the claims.

88
As a side note to set the record straight, It wasn't "Matthew Chan" who won it by himself.  It was really "Matthew Chan's" team who did it. The team consisted of bloggers, reporters, friends, readers, donors, lawyers, and legal allies who came together for the cause of protecting the First Amendment and Section 230 in Georgia.

Getty used to send letters threatening lawsuits, if they got no reply, they would have off the case to their "lawyer" Timothy McCormack, would then send letters threatening a lawsuit and upping the demand amount..layer #2 of the fear factor...how many times did Timothy McCormack appear on court on behalf of getty images?? ZERO....hell he may have only been in court one time in his career when he made the mistake of going up against Matthew Chan in the Georgia Supreme Court, where he made himself and his client look like fools..as a side note our old buddy Timmy now grows pot for a living.

89
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: another copytrack letter
« on: September 08, 2018, 04:40:09 PM »
Actually, collection agencies can wrongfully tag your credit. Many collection agencies have a mechanism to report collection accounts. Collection agencies are supposed to verify before reporting to credit agencies but that frequently doesn't happen due to intentional or unintentional oversight. It happens a lot with unethical collection agencies.  It happens very frequently, more than you think.

The good news is the credit agencies have been legally spanked over the years to properly comply with certain rules when people report and contest negative entries on their credit report. If one contests a questionable entry by a collection agency, the credit agency is then required to get a response from the collection agent. If they don't respond in a timely or appropriate manner, the entry is automatically removed. Unfortunately, it falls upon the credit holder to know these things and act upon them.

I know of NO ONE besides myself (and I know a wide variety of people of various socio-economic and educational backgrounds in different professions) who regularly pulls and reviews their own credit report and scores on a regular basis.

And most people don't have the first clue to contest an incorrect entry on their credit report even if they were to pull and identify it.

Credit reporting, monitoring, and management is sadly still considered similar to the mystic arts even with the various free resources such as CreditKarma which is freely available to anyone to check on a weekly basis.

Copytrack calling it a debt is flat out wrong.  I think Robert is correct, it probably does implicate the FDCPA and whatever state law equivalent exists in your state. 

They cannot touch your credit. 

90
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: another copytrack letter
« on: September 08, 2018, 04:28:55 PM »
If it were me, I would tell the to pound sand. German laws don't apply to U.S. citizens who don't live or visit Germany. And if they feel so strongly, they can go waste their money and file a lawsuit in any court against a US citizen living and working in the US to enforce German law. Stop wasting your time arguing with these fools.

Even the copytrack employee agreed it was fair use.  Their argument was that fair use doesn't apply in Germany.

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