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Messages - milosron

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1
buddhapi--

I've been wondering if there are differences between the demongraphics of recipients of HAN , Getty and any other group letter.  I haven't followed this long, but it seems to me the few HAN cases discussed here involved small businesses who used images at a business site.  For example: The HAN/skunks involves a picture of skunks front page of a dog grooming site which existed to make money. The skunks were selected to highlight a service the site sells: deskunking of dogs. The other case I read about was a plastic surgery case. In that case, the images were on a site used to give a professional appearance to the medical groups site. In both cases, the sites were online and in active use.


I just want to make a correction here.  The website is not selling the service of deskunking dogs.  The link goes to a page with instructions on how to clean the animal yourself. 

2
Hawaiian Letters & Lawsuits Forum / Re: Free Baitpapers
« on: January 12, 2012, 12:31:45 PM »
I would also like to thank ENVL for sharing her story.  I just sent a 2nd reply to "my" lawyer which I will share with all of you whenever I get a reply from him.  "My" photographer resides in Denver and I note that the Denver Post, and I am sure all newspapers, solicits news tips.  Also please consider filing a complait at www.ic3.gov the FBI's internet crime web site. I haven't gone either route yet but plan to, dependent upon how my lawyer responds. 

3
Matthew - Thanks for the pep talk and for everything you do here.  I am going to at least give it one more try on my own using all that I am learning here.  So, if I use some text from one of your letters you won't site me for copyright infringement?   ;D

4
mc - how did you ever guess that I was a "nice guy" and thanks for the words of wisdom?  I hope not to waste anybody's time. I would rather pay Oscar than them but first I am composing my own next response to Martinen.  (BTW - while I was reviewing those links you and others supplied in order to document them, the baby skunks image on the "dailypictures" site was gone and instead I got a virus (the bad one that says I have a virus and have to send money to fix it).  Talk about being punished for good deeds.  Thank heavens for Malwarebytes which I carry with me always.)

A couple of questions. 

1- I've been reading as much as I can on ELI and it doesn't appear that the defense team feels that the seeding of images to entrap people is necessarily illegal, I suppose because of the ambiguity of the copyright laws and how do we prove who is doing the seeding?  In an earlier post I mentioned that when I first received my letter I smelled scam right away and after doing some pre-ELI research on my own, called my Attorney General's Office and after a lengthy discussion with a nice woman she suggested I file a complaint at www.ice3.gov the Internet Crime Complaint Center.  Does anyone feel that this would productive? I don't mean to do this instead of putting up my own fight but in addition to it.

2- From your experience is there a good time to inform the lawyer that you are consulting with ELI?  Or maybe that's not necessary.  I just googled "CPM Creative" and there is already a link to the letter.

5
I just watched the latest update video with Matt and mc.  I appreciate all the work you do; and Matt, I do get it.  As a newbie I am just trying to get all the advice and insight I can.  How was I to know that 1000's of people get these letters and that I am not "special" until it happened to me.  I discovered ELI just a few days ago and needed to spend enough time on ELI to "get it." 

6
Thank you all for your advise.

7
OK, I did contact him and warn him.  We'll see what information he can provide.

8
Referring to http://www.saveauburntrail.org/mammals, I wonder where they got the baby skunks image which looks like the bottom was cropped off and how they claim the copyright?  I don't want to get others in trouble over this.  I am hoping that exposing this demand letter practice would save others from receiving one, not inviting one for them.  That website is a do good site after all.

9
This morning, I noticed something about the baby skunks image in question.  The image sited and reproduced in the CPM Legal letter to me, and the one we see in 100 of places on the web, shows the tail of the skunk on the left curved to the left.  As pointed out by mcfilms  (thank you so much), others claim copyright to this image.  See http://www.saveauburntrail.org/mammals for example.

The image on Ms. Shatill's website is a bit different: http://www.dancingpelican.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=66.  Note - The tails on both skunks are straight up. I could not find any other baby skunk images on her website.

What to you think about that?

Ron

10
Sorry for the length of this reply but I thought it would be useful for you to get the whole story.  Here are the details so far:

On Nov 2, 2011 I received this email with the demand letter attached as a pdf document.  It was sent to the contact us email address on the website which is forwarded to me as well as the business owners.  Since I do this web site for free it's registered in my name and I provide the hosting also.  It was sent from a gmail account called cpmlegalteam and signed by Robert?  It seemed so unprofessional that I immediately suspected that this was a scam.

To Whom It May Concern:

Please see attached our demand letter to cease and desist using our client's copyrighted material on your website, ********************.

Please contact us immediately to resolve this issue.

Sincerely,

Robert
CPM Legal
866-***-***


This was quite upsetting and scary.  I immediately removed the image and deleted the file from the server etc.  Two days later I responded via email:

As you requested I have deleted the image files in question from the website and backup computer.

I originally found that image via a Google search and there was no indication that it was copyrighted material or I certainly would not have used it.  I was not using the image file that you noted in the letter but a low resolution 2" thumbnail.

The image was not used in any way to generate business.  It was used to call attention to a public service page on how to clean you pet that was sprayed by a skunk.

I am an amateur web designer and I created and maintain this website pro-bono, as a friend to the owners of the very small and local dog grooming business, European Dog Grooming.

If that image file is indeed copyrighted I apologize to your client for any inconvenience it might have caused.


I received this reply from Robert - whoever Robert is?

Mr. *******:

Thank you for your letter. 

The following is a brief response to the points in your email:

First, the image you used on your website was NOT in the public domain.  The concept of "public domain" is a legal question.  An image becomes apart of the public domain only after 70 years after the death of the author.  If you did not purchase or create the work (e.g. text, photograph, image, picture, sound recording, etc.) then it is a copyright infringement and illegal to use the image without permission of the owner.  Google only searches websites and organizes information and images for the searcher.  These images may NOT be used by anyone without the permission of the owner.

Second, it is not important whether or not you had the intent to violate the copyright of our client. 

Intent is not an element in proving liability under copyright law.  Also, it is irrelevant why or how you used the image because the simple display of the image on your website subjects you to liability under copyright law.

Finally, all of the elements of a copyright infringement exists regarding the use of our client's property on your website.  The owner of the image and holder of the copyright hired our law firm to demand that you cease and desist use of the copyrighted material AND secure a monetary settlement amount of $2,245 for the wrongful use of her property without authority. 

We strongly advise you to resolve this matter immediately to avoid additional attorney fees, other expenses and court costs that will be assessed to you.

Please contact us 866-431-6520 to settle this matter or have your attorney contact us.

Sincerely,

Robert
CPM Legal
866-431-6520


At this point, being quite worried and upset I mulled over my options.  So, first I called my personal home insurance agent to inquire whether or not this sort of thing is covered.  They had me actually file a claim.  I sent them the demand letter and explained my situation much as I explained above.  In a about a week, I received a 5 page letter sent by certified mail explaining why I was not covered by my policy.  So much for that.  So, next I contact a lawyer who we have used in my business from time to time.  He agreed to review this.  He came back with what he felt were my options:  Pay the $2245 or negotiate a lesser sum or for a fee somewhat more than Oscar is charging, hire him to write a letter or do nothing a wait to see if they actually file a lawsuit and then deal with it.

I wasn't about the pay the extortion.  Dealing with them felt dirty since I felt that this was a scam.
The letter seemed somewhat inviting since it would get them off my back but the lawyer wanted more than I felt I could afford and besides this lawyer is a general lawyer with little or no experience in copyright law.
That's when I went to the web.  I looked up the CPM lawyers on the state bar sites and found that they were real.  Then I came across Matt's blog on his business website that described what had happened to me exactly.  With some of the knowledge gained from Matt's blog, I responded to Robert (whoever he is?)

Robert,

A few points.

1.       The image I downloaded is called Skunk Babies.jpg not SR-VA001301433-Skunk002.  I tried to find that image on your client’s websites and could not locate it. (I was looking in the HAN websites here)

2.       You have not sent me proof that your skunk image is copyright.  Prove to me your client is the true owner and show me proof of copyright including all the properties of the image.

3.       On the web there are scores of sites, maybe 100’s around the world that have this same skunk image on them.  None that I saw have any copyright information on them.

See: This following link shows scores of sites that have this image.  Almost every one of these goes to different web site.

http://www.google.com/search?q=baby+skunks&hl=en&gbv=2&imgrefurl=http://pixdaus.com/%3Fsort%3Dtag%26tag%3Dbaby%2520skunks&imgurl=http://pixdaus.com/pics/1242855936ie9EpYX.jpg&w=800&h=589&sig=116627408044841583713&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSEgnfjnpSU9BMSiGDFG6TyZV2Rg&sa=X&ei=LwzmToKGEOLc0QHUwKGZDg&ved=0CAUQrBE&biw=1707&bih
=971

4.       Because I downloaded this image from some 3rd party site and did not know the image was allegedly protected, infringement, if any, was not willful hence I am not liable as you claim.

First send me the proof of copyright and we can proceed from there. 



Now three weeks went by and I thought maybe they gave up on me because I just wasn't going to send them money.  But on December 30, 2011 I got this signed by Mr. Martinen himself.  Attached was page 1 of the so called copyright registration form:


Mr. ******:

1.  The title of the image that was copyrighted includes the copyright number "SR-VA001301433."  A *.jpg name can be changed for marketing purposes but it remains the same image.

2.  Please find the image on our client's website at: Wendy Shattil

3.  We have hundreds of enforcement cases regarding this one image as well as many others of Ms. Shattil.  A copyright holder must enforce the copyright or risk losing the protections a copyright affords the holder.  Many times those who infringe on copyrights will photo-shop the copyright information off the image.  As you see on the website link in point #2, the copyright information is on the image.  Whether or not you took the information off the image or someone else, the use of the image without a license from the artist is an infringement.

4.  In the event that you had no intent on violating the DCMA rights of our client by altering the image, then without more proof we will not pursue this cause of action.  However, through your website you have infringed on our clients copyright and we have the obligation to enforce it by seeking monetary damages.  We do this by settling for a past use license and release of liability with no right to use the image in the future.

5.  Please see the copyright registration form under CR# SR-VA0001301433 attached.  Below is the copyrighted image cataloged under the copyright registration number with the US Copyright Office.

Contact us at 866-***-**** to settle this matter.

Sincerely,

Christian Martinen, Esq.
CPM Legal
***-***-****
 


Finally going back to the web and Matt's blog I discovered ELI.  I contacted Matt, sent him all the above info.  He posted the letter and registation form and that is it to date.
I had some other thoughts.

I actually called the Attorney General's office in my state and had a long talk with a very nice women.  Her suggestion was to report this to the FBI via a website www.ic3.gov (Internet Crime Complaint Center).

Contact Call for action lines on local TV stations or newspapers.  Ms. Shattil might not like it if the Denver Post ran an article that one of Denver's favorite photographers is engaged in a scam.

Do any of you think that there is any sense in appealing to Mr. "Random acts of Kindness" Martinen's sense of ethics.  Do you think he might be unaware that he is one of many lawyers hired by HAN over the years to pull this extortion on people?

Awaiting your comments.

11
Wow, I'm impressed at all the responses so quickly.  I'm the one who got this letter.  I'll chime in later with some more details but check this out to see how widely this image has been distributed:
http://www.google.com/search?q=baby+skunks&hl=en&gbv=2&imgrefurl=http://pixdaus.com/?sort%3Dtag%26tag%3Dbaby%2520skunks&imgurl=http://pixdaus.com/pics/1242855936ie9EpYX.jpg&w=800&h=589&sig=116627408044841583713&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSEgnfjnpSU9BMSiGDFG6TyZV2Rg&sa=X&ei=LwzmToKGEOLc0QHUwKGZDg&ved=0CAUQrBE&biw=1707&bih=971

All I used was a thumbnail of this image as a link to an public service advice page in a website for a small dog grooming business describing how to clean your dog if it got skunked.  I am not a professional web designer and I do this website for free as a friend to the owners.  Talk about no good deed going unpunished.



 

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