Messages

1

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty and the Stone Collection

« on: March 16, 2012, 01:08:52 PM »

I totally understand that Getty has to protect their IP, and that due to their size, they spend a lot of time and money doing so. On the other hand, since they make a lot of money due to their size, a lot of that should be the cost of them doing business.

I don't think they are being reasonable by ignoring the circumstances of the infringement. There *is* a difference between someone who says "I'm going to the Getty site and take one of their photos - no one will ever know", someone who says "I found it on the internet, so that means I can use it", someone who was given the image as part of a web design, someone who gets the photo from a legitimate-looking website that presents the photo as "public domain", or someone who buys a photo CD that is represented as public domain or royalty free.

I also don't think they realize that not a single person they are chasing would have paid the prices they quote for images because the people affected are not plugged into the "rights managed stock photo" world. I don't know who actually pays $900 to use a photo on a website - perhaps a mid-level manager at a Madison Ave. design firm does, but that's the cost of one or more year's worth of hosting for most websites. I realize that goes against their view of their own business, but it's reality. I replaced the photos on my site with pictures I took with my cellphone. No drop in my traffic so far - my benefit from using their photos was $0.

I didn't take the photos from their site or from the internet - a design company supplied them to me as a minor design element on my site. Had the design company said to me "the cost to use these 4 images will be $4,000", I would have told them to stuff it.

Also, had Getty said to me "you are using our images without our consent, remove them and pay $50 per image", I'd have paid up. Hell, if they said "$200 per image, based on the minimum innocent infringement penalty in US Copyright law, I'd probably have swallowed hard and paid it. But nearly $1000 per image? That's insanity, and is not in line with what the law values a completely innocent infringement to be.

OK, enough venting.

2

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty and the Stone Collection

« on: March 15, 2012, 11:52:09 PM »

Here's another 10K filing:

http://www.123jump.com/10K_Reports/GYI/1998/1998.htm

It would be interesting to see more recent filings to see when/if they start mentioning enforcement as a primary business activity.

Based on what I have learned from these filings, I think it is highly doubtful that the Tony Stone collection was ever offered as royalty free CD. According to the 10K, the Tony Stone Collection was the genesis of Getty Communications' forming. It was their core product from day #1.

However, I think that since they offered their catalog on CD-ROM as early as 1997, it is very possible that these images have been "in the wild" for a very long time. It is very possible that they have been gathered and offered - illegally - as rights-free "public domain" stock photos.

To me, this is the grey area. Image licensing is not a run-of-the-mill subject. If someone buys a CD or buys an image from a website that purports to offer royalty-free or public domain images, I'm not sure how they can be held culpable. To me, this is squarely innocent infringement - as is being provided the images by a design company. I can understand that Getty doesn't want to get involved in such squabbles, but on the other hand, I have to believe that they know that they have a very weak hand if they go to court.

3

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty and the Stone Collection

« on: March 15, 2012, 11:36:25 PM »

Here is some more information:

http://www.getfilings.com/o0001047469-98-013098.html

   
CD-ROM CATALOGS

    Tony Stone Images also produces CD-ROM catalogs, and was one of the first stock photography agencies to produce an electronic catalog in digital format.

CD-ROM catalogs enable customers to select from a wide range of images on-screen at their offices. Although CD-ROM catalogs are significantly less expensive to produce than printed catalogs, a substantial majority of customers currently prefer to select images from printed catalogs. It is the Company's intention to provide a CD-ROM version of all printed catalogs for distribution with the printed catalog, as well as producing focused stand-alone CD-ROMs covering specialized subjects.

 
    GETTY-IMAGES.COM

    The web site was launched in 1997 allowing customers from anywhere in the world to request images from the Tony Stone collection or order catalogs and CDs. In addition, some 160,000 images from the Hulton Getty collection are currently available for on-line selection. New images have been continually added to the on-line site during the year.

    During 1998, the Tony Stone Dupe Master Collection will be made available on the web for search and selection by and digital delivery to the client. The move to digital delivery is a critical element of the Company's future strategy and it is anticipated that the application of PhotoDisc's digital know-how will allow the Company to accelerate its move to digital delivery of the Tony Stone Dupe Master Collection.

Here's my question: assuming that in the time since 1997, someone pirated these CDs and resold them as "royalty free stock images", how much culpability does someone who purchased such a collection have to Getty?

4

Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Getty and the Stone Collection

« on: February 15, 2012, 02:10:36 PM »

I have found examples of each of the photos in question on the internet with dates that precede 2008. That tells me that these photos were available prior to Getty registering the copyright on them. Since the photos in question are stock photos - not particularly interesting - this leads me to believe that they were sold via another service, perhaps a photo CD or a stock photo website.

Is it possible that Getty sold them online prior to them registering them as "the Stone Collection"?

It is disturbing to me that Getty can try and enforce rights on photographs that it does not have exclusive rights to.

Ralph

5

Getty Images Letter Forum / Getty and the Stone Collection

« on: February 14, 2012, 02:30:45 PM »

Does anyone know if the "Stone Collection", which I understand from this website was acquired by Getty in 2008, was ever licensed in any other way prior to 2008?

To make a long story short, my images came from an outside web designer in July 2008; they are now included in the "Stone Collection". Getty is pursuing this with me; I'd like to know if Getty actually has the right to go after me on this or could the images have been legally obtained under a different license prior to Getty's acquisition, for example, if the original photographer licensed them in some other method prior to 2008.

The design shop cannot figure out where their designer got the images back in 2008, so that avenue is a dead-end for me. I wonder if it is possible that they got them from a stock photo site or CD that was perhaps correctly licensed in 2008.

The images that the designer provided did not have any watermarking on them, yet the images from the Getty site do have watermarking, so I believe that the images provided to me did not actually come from Getty, they instead came from another source.

Thanks,

Ralph