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Messages - lucia

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 44
46
I posted more details at Robert's blog (where we can insert images etc.)
http://copyright-trolls.com/site/sorry-for-partying-but-we-arent-infringing/

Yes. The reasoning in this ruling pretty much takes apart many (as far as I know all) of McCormack's parody claims wtr to Robert. One might argue whether the amount of transformation is as great-- but really.... McCormack's claim is weak.

This is at a Circuit Court level-- so pretty high. Next step would be SCOTUS.  BTW: I'm in the 7th circuit, so it's the circuit that would hear cases if one were levied against me or those of us in Illinois.

47
Internet stealth marketing.
What's that?

A lot of law firms have bad web site. Getty Images has money. I suspect they will have picked a competent law firm. They don't want to be enjoined from sending out demand letters.

48
Those familiar with the sorry for partying case:
Magistrate Judge Stephen Crocker also ruled the shirt was not an infringement because of the “transformative nature” of the work, according to Vosseller.

This should be a blow to Tim McCormack's theories of parody.

http://host.madison.com/daily-cardinal/copyright-infringement-charges-dropped-against-sconnie-nation-s-paul-soglin/article_1472c87e-3d50-11e4-8597-575eca5662cb.html

The ruling itself
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/case/kienitz-v-sconnie-nation-llc/


50
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Fair Use Question
« on: September 16, 2014, 08:04:14 AM »
I should add an observation. Getty Images dropped the demand to an amount exactly equal to Oscar's Letter writing program.   My guess is they know that lots of people pay Oscar and have dropped this demand to that level precisely to give someone a choice between putting $200 in GI's pockets (which would settle it once and for all) vs. putting it into Oscar's on a case GI knows they will never pursue.   That's my guess though.

51
And finally, although people recommend shooting their own images, some of us live in Southern California where it is hard to snap a picture of a snowman.
It's hard to shoot pictures of palm trees in Illinois.

There are good reasons why people will license images shot by others-- or find some from creative commons or in the public domain and so on. But anytime you haven't taken the image yourself or over seen it, there is a possibility something unexpected will go wrong. Certainly all businesses should keep records. One could say all private individuals ought to also-- but that's not going to happen. Enthusiast setting up blogs and facebook pages to talk aren't going to remember to do so.

52
Getty Images Letter Forum / Re: Fair Use Question
« on: September 15, 2014, 06:30:56 PM »
landmark,
The way you should respond always depends on your judgement. It involves balancing risks and deciding what you value. So, for example: you could:
1) Not answer and ignore them.
2) Offer then $200 but stipulate that you aren't willing to agree to a gag order-- rather you plan to discuss the situation widely.
3) You can fork over the $200 and agree to the gag order.
4) You can offer some other amount.
5) You can re-iterate your fair use argument and tell them you are not paying.
6) You can re-iterate your fair use argument and tell them that admitting no guilt, to get this behind you, you are willing to give them $200 (or whatever.)  Decide whether you are willing to go with the gag order.
7) You can hire an attorney and have the attorney speak to getty images.

To the extent that you refuse to pay the may sue. It's not likely-- they generally don't. To the extent that you fork over money, they won't sue. 

If I were you and I thought my use was clearly under fair use, I'd do (5). If I thought my fair use argument was poor... I wouldn't explain it to them, but I might just fork over the $200-- possibly even accepting the gag order. (I'd be grumpy about that though.)

53
I'm pretty sure there is no vetting process. The only thing to be aware of is that after you set up your agent, you need that agent to understand their responsibilities and do what is required if they receive a take down request.  You can be liable for their screwups. So, for example, you can't just turn the DMCA process into some sort of black hole where people who complain send requests and then the agent tosses the requests in the trash and leaves the content up.  You need to know what the law requires of the registered agent and the company using the registered agent and comply. Otherwise, if you don't do as required your flushing the $105 (or whatever it is) down a rate hole.

But yes-- it's not a complicated system.   Large companies do hire attorneys -- but it's not required.

Oh-- oddly, I don't think you are even required to make the identity of the registered agent easy to find-- but check on that.  It will be available at the copyright office, but I've tried to use their search tools... and oy!

54

Thanks, well, filling out this DMCA form seems easy enough.  But obviously I need an attorney to be listed on it, right?
No. The agent does not need to be an attorney. However, whoever becomes agent needs to learn how to properly respond to the take down requests and needs to respond properly.  They also need to be available to receive the requests and so on. So you do need to think about that sort of thing. Otherwise: you could be the agent for your site.  It doesn't need to be an attorney.

It probably helps that none of our writers are employees.  They're all kinds of freelancers and many one-off guests.
My understanding is DMCA should help you in that case. I"m assuming you aren't aren't paying them in any way.  This will always get more murky if you are in anyway paying the writers.   But even if things get more murky: that goes two ways. Copyright holders who see you have an agent will likely submit a DMCA request and assume that's their only option. Most will not try to investigate to figure out whether there is some 'loophole' that vitiates your DMCA protection-- because they know the argument in court would be dicey.  That's just a "practical" issue-- not legal.

 Note: I am not a lawyer. If you need real legal advice, you might need to talk to one.

55
Generally, a blog that permits people other than the owner or his employees to post is a "service provider". You are providing a service to the commenters or other authors who use your "service" to post their own views.

That said: you are not a "service provider" for yourself or your employees-- I don't think.  I know you aren't for yourself-- you'd have to ask about the employees.  It costs something to file the paperwork, but if you are doing something where people not under your control post, you should file a DMCA -- and do so even if you think you are being 'very strict'. No matter how strict you are, you might screw up.

56
Sure. Back in the days when some bandwidth was expensive, some admins did Goatse. Almost none do now.  Certain ones would never, ever do it as it means they have to display the image themselves. Well.. not literally, depends how good they are with .htaccess.  But most people who don't want to be hotlinked just block the image.

I've never experienced Goatse when hotlinking and I hotlink a lot.

57
Lucia, thanks.  Yes, it was hosted on our server. Who actually hot links anymore? 
Prudent people who know copying can be a copyright violation and hotlinking isn't? Google on it's image search pages? People using Zemanta plugins People inserting ads from services like Adsense?  People who run Amazon ads-- using the tool Amazon provides them? Most of Pinterest 'repinners'. (The original pinner doesn't hotlink, but the rest do.)  People who run forums and want to let those discussing insert images?

You seem to be asking a rhetorical question that suggests people don't hotlink or shouldn't hotlink. But lots of hotlinking still goes on,  it's likely to always go on and it's often wise to hotlink.

For what it's worth, I hotlink. It's often wiser.  I don't know why someone wouldn't hotlink.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with hotlinking; if the web administrator wants to prevent hotlinking, they have .htaccess at their fingertips and they almost certainly will use it.

Quote
I don't have a clue where it came from, so no evidence as to the source.
The fact that you don't have a clue where it came from, and this was posted in what appears to be business context for you means the judge might not find you unable to prove your infringement is 'innocent' in the sense the court sees that. The images is registered. If he sues, the statutory minimum is something like $750.   In contrast if you did have a clue and had records that this thing was represented as coming from a site that claimed it had a CC license, but the CC license was merely invalid, you might be looking at $200-- as you would have something evidence to prove your infringement was innocent.   (There are other things you might be able to bring forward as proof -- if you had them-- but "I have no clue how it got there", isn't evidence of unwilful infringement.")

Yes, we're a business. We're a blog with several dozen authors who come and go.
If you have something like a multi-author set up where others not under your control might insert unlicensed copyrighted material, you should register DMCA agent. It's too late for your current predicament, but it would be wise to consider for the future.

The DMCA registration won't help you if you post the material yourself and it might not help you if a person who is working for hire does it-- but it would help if you are doing something more similar to offering a blogging platform to others who are not under your control.

The image was (allegedly) used in a blog post about 6 years ago. Hasn't seen the light of day since, until their robot apparently found it.
I"m not sure what you mean by "Hasn't seen the light of day".  It sounds like the images remained on your server until you received the letter, right? How did the robot find it? Was it linked from a post-- which was also crawlable? 

That the page or post had few visits would likely be a point in your favor with respect to damages.  But if it once had lots of visits (even 6 years ago), maybe not.  In the US, copyright is an economic issue-- so the question the judge will be looking at isn't going to be limited to how much damage happened in the last year, but how much happened overall. 

If you are wondering what might happen if you were sued, you need to think about how the person suing you would present it and what the law is.  With respect to the 6 years ago-- the statute of limitations doesn't start when you posted the image. It starts when the copyright owner discovered you had posted it or 'should have' discovered it.  He may have discovered this less than 2 days before sending you the letter.  A judge isn't like to think the copyright owners "should have" discovered this the moment you posted-- so your saying it's been up for 6 years isn't going to help you in court.  If anything, depending on how this guy licenses and what fees he gets, it will elevate the monetary damages the copyright owner might claim.

Despite the fact that we're really strict about picking only public domain images, occasional mistakes happen. With over 15,000 articles written in 10 years, it's hard not to!
Sure. And possibly in court, the judge might think your position of 'this is a mistake' is credible or not. But the copyright owner isn't required to accept your word that you are careful and strict.  (BTW: 15,000 articles in 10 years with authors not under your control: this is why you need to register a DMCA agent.)

Also: the judge might think the fact that you don't have a DMCA agent, yet publish 15,000 articles in 10 years means your business model is to 'risk it'-- and he'll take that as a justification that when he sees you did violate, well... ok. You pay this time.  This is especially so if you are making money with things like ads and so on, and if he sees your motive for keeping 6 year old posts on the web to increase your web presence and generate advertising revenue from ads.  I don't know if that's what you do-- but superficially it sounds like that.

However, in 10 years we've only had a complaint one other time. Someone complained (no lawyers involved), I apologized and took it down.  That's how civilized people settle these things!
I agree that is civilized. But the fact that another copyright holder didn't sue may not help you in court.   (The low rate of complaints will likely help. The judge would at least see that you don't seem to be running a business whose model is to ignore copyright. )

But, returning to DMCA-- if another guy complained, that's yet another reason why you should have registered a DMCA agent back when that guy complained. If you have a business with 15,000 articles written by others-- and possibly 1,500 being a year being added, I'm a little confused why you didn't or don't register one.  I don't have a DMCA agent registered at my hobby blog because (a) it's a hobby blog and (b) I write most the articles, and I read every single one written by one of my friends-- and I absolutely positively know the images they insert are either original by them, in the public domain (published by government agencies like NOAA, NASA etc) or classic fair use.   In comments,  commenters can hotlink but they aren't allowed to upload.  (So... see, some people hotlink. To permit stray visitors in comments to upload is nuts. Just freakin' nuts-- and not just because of copyright. Also because of some of the worst software vulnerabilities are bugs in file uploading plugins for blogs, forum and etc.). 

Letting people you don't monitor closely  upload images-- and not keeping records?  That's asking for trouble on many fronts. You are experiencing one.

I get the impression you are upset that I'm saying this guy might sue. Well... this guy might sue.  He's hired an attorney which suggests his mental frame is to be willing to sue. Will he? We don't know. Will he win something if he does: Sounds like almost certainly yes,  he will win something. The reason he would win something if he sued is it looks very likely you did violate his copyright, he has registered the thing, he sent you proof of claim and so on. Other than the superficial part of making a demand, this guy is not acting like Getty Images. In fact: he's done many of the things that people around here fault Getty for not doing: showed proof of claim etc.

The question is how much would he win.  Maybe less than he's asking in settlement-- maybe more.  But he'll win something. What's worse for you is if you behave aggressively enough include too many allusions to "extortion" when responding to someone who has presented proof of claim, offer no settlement at all and so on, a judge might be very include to make you pay his attorney's fees.  Or  not. We don't know.

I don't want to seem unsympathetic-- in fact, I am sympathetic. But if you are weighing possibilities when negotiating, you need to think about your situation realistically. 

58
Has anyone heard from this guy? This looks like another hotlinking case of the sort Rothman is pursuing. The statute date of his first post was Oct 2011-- so still in statute of limitations.  (I'm hunting for cases that are 'hotlink'.)

59
For example, you need an image of a squirrel in your website or a book. If you use online research tools, you'd see hundreds of images related to squirrel which are licensed by greedy individuals or organizations ready to sue you in the court of law unless you pay their license fee. To filter out such money-hogs, there's a very useful online tool;

http://search.creativecommons.org/

Checkmark the "use for commercial purposes" and the "modify, adapt, or build upon" boxes. Select the appropriate website where you want to research (Be ware to avoid the ones mentioned below). And enter your search term "Squirrel". Select the image to extract the reference information as mentioned above before using it.

I think people should be very cautious even if they get images from creative commons.  In fact, creative commons org more or less says so. Their site has this warning:

Quote
Please note that search.creativecommons.org is not a search engine, but rather offers convenient access to search services provided by other independent organizations. CC has no control over the results that are returned. Do not assume that the results displayed in this search portal are under a CC license. You should always verify that the work is actually under a CC license by following the link. Since there is no registration to use a CC license, CC has no way to determine what has and hasn't been placed under the terms of a CC license. If you are in doubt you should contact the copyright holder directly, or try to contact the site where you found the content.

In other words: images returned by the cc 'search' may be copyrighted. CC hasn't checked whether the images are copyrighted. So CC is a good place to start your search-- images you find are likely to be available under CC, but things can go wrong. So if you find an image through that portal, you should hunt for the copyright 'owner' and ask to verify that they intend for the image to be in the public domain. 

The other thing to be aware of is that if you do obtain an images that claims to be available under CC, you should be sure to obtain and keep evidence that you obtained it that way-- just as you would keep track of licenses if you licensed a copyrighted photo. Otherwise, there is a risk someone who is not the copyright owner will have filled out a form and posted a fake CC license on the web. Should the real copyright owner come forward, you are much more likely to persuade them of your innocence if you can show that a CC license was provided with the photo and that you were at least acting in good faith. Should they sue anyway, you are much more likely to persuade a judge your infringement was innocent (which it will have been.) 

60
The-Gobbler,
Removing the image was wise. That's a good first step whether or not you infringed.  As for how likely this guy is to pursue litigation: I have no idea. I haven't heard any history of this particular copyright owner. So it's hard to guess.
Interesting, thanks!  There's no question this alleged image is correctly copyrighted, they sent me all kinds of crap proving it.  Now, given that it's a fairly generic looking image of mountains I've seen photographed 100 times I find their proof that it's actually a match to be potentially dubious. Furthermore, the only proof they have is a screenshot of my site which isn't exactly proof of anything since a screenshot is easily faked.... 

I've replied honestly, explaining that I have no idea where the image came from, that even though there really isn't any proof of their claim I've removed it in good faith.

I guess my next question is ... what happens if they actually do sue me?  Should I drop the $200 for a letter from you guys? I mean, I'd much rather pay you than settle with these clowns but if shit hits the fan, then what?
First, that depends: I can't tell from your letter if your server was hosting the image or if it was hotlinked form another server. This is very important. Do you know?   

I'd write other things-- but actually, right now based on what you wrote,  unless you hotlinked, you seem to be in a somewhat perilous position. It seems this image is registered, the photographer is a professional photographer, he is pursuing you on his own dime and he's already got a legal counsel. Chances that he sue you?  I haven't heard of this guy -- so it's hard to guess.  My guess is the chance he'll sue is much higher than Getty Images suing you.  If he does, the question them becomes could he win? And how much could he win? Well, it sounds like there's a lot not revealed in your post-- that said, there is enough to suggest the copyright owner could win at least $200-- the statutory minimum. After all the image is registered. It's a better bet to assume he could win at least $750-- especially if you can't prove your infringement is 'innocent'.  Other factors:  Are you a business?  How was the image used and so on?  Do you have evidence the images was listed on a creative commons site... and so on?  Did the copyright owner put the image on the creative commons site?  And so on. 

On the other hand: if you hotlinked, you would be free and clear. So... did you host this image on a server you own or whose content you control? Or was it hotlinked from someone else's server? 

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