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Author Topic: Another Getty Letter Story  (Read 5837 times)

Newbie Fan

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Another Getty Letter Story
« on: August 08, 2014, 10:16:49 AM »
Our friends have a very small business and yes are incorporated with a registered agent - as is required by their state. They received the Getty letter on a single image and took it off the site. Their teenage son helped build the site years ago - and said he only used "free images"  and they honestly don't recall how that image got there and as it was in the frame of the site could even have been an image included in Sitebuilder - who Parallels has admitted they had a problem with some of their older templates - of which they had one from their website host provider. http://forum.parallels.com/showthread.php?261320-Getty-Images-Copyright-Infringement-Notice-from-SiteBuilder-Image 

http://kb.parallels.com/en/116513

They spoke to parallels who said all website providers received notices to discontinue these older templates but the host says they received nothing and know nothing on this.
The host says they are willing to send it to their legal department if our friends want them to (and presumably go after Parallels to make it right but that wasn't spelled out).  Both Parallels (customer service)and the host said they don't keep copies of such old templates nor the pics in them. However, if they do keep copies of the licenses from that time and the pic was not in the original template maybe that will be worse than ignoring Getty by getting the host legal department involved?

Our friends received one letter but did not answer it over a year ago. A few other letters came to the office where their mailbox is but it was addressed to a person or "department" they don't have and sent back unopened. They haven't heard anything in about a year and are unsure of what to do. Yes they read every post  and suggestion on here and know the options. LOL.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 11:25:43 AM by Newbie Fan »

Matthew Chan

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Re: Another Getty Letter Story
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 02:02:31 PM »
I don't mean to sound callous but if your friends have read this forum in its entirety and still wondering "what to do", then would they like someone to tell them to call Getty up and negotiate to pay?  Do they expect Getty to simply say, "We changed our minds. Since you successfully ignored and dodged us for a year, we are going to be good guys and send you a reward letter saying that we are not pursuing you for money anymore."

If it is too quiet for them, that can easily be changed with one email and phone call to Getty. If they are unwilling to negotiate and pay, then don't expect worry-free closure until the 3 years statute of limitations is up. It is that simple.  They just need to sit and wait quietly. Or lawyer up if that makes them feel better.

The honest truth is that ELI would do financially much better if we distorted the facts and said the likelihood of getting sued is very high.  It is amazing to me how badly people seem to want to disregard favorable news as if we stand to benefit from it.  If Getty were to suddenly fire up 20 lawsuits, our website traffic would increase and we would make more money.

I've told Oscar we probably SHOULD let people believe that lawsuits are likely. He and I would get a lot more clients that way. But we don't because we feel it is sleazy to do unnecessary fear-mongering. But we can't give absolute guarantees either. We only report what we see.

EVERYONE pays a price. It is all a matter of choice.  You can pay with simply sitting silently and have lack of closure for 3 years.  Or you can negotiate and pay up to get closure.  Or you can lawyer up to feel better.  Everyone needs to pick their poison.

But too many people have this "irrational" thought, "I just want them to go away peacefully without me paying a penny and guarantee they will not contact me again". Well, hell, I want traffic to clear out of the way each time I get in my car to drive also. Being irrational doesn't serve anyone.  Life is about making choices.

ELI helps extortion letter victims with the various issues and give people lots of options to choose from including publicly saying "lay low and be quiet".  But very few here are going to provide counseling services and ongoing assurances to quell people's fears.  Some people can take the stress and uncertainty of waiting 3 years, others can't.  It is best to be honest about it with yourself. If they are going to lose sleep and get an ulcer over it even after this forum explains everything so bluntly, then I say go pay up and be done with it and move on. It is that simple.

Our friends received one letter but did not answer it over a year ago. A few other letters came to the office where their mailbox is but it was addressed to a person or "department" they don't have and sent back unopened. They haven't heard anything in about a year and are unsure of what to do. Yes they read every post  and suggestion on here and know the options. LOL.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Newbie Fan

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Re: Another Getty Letter Story
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 08:06:05 PM »
I think you misunderstood me. Mainly the point was about KB Parallels and their admission of having sold templates with unlicensed Getty images. http://kb.parallels.com/en/116513
"Unlicensed images on the website
Article ID: 116513
Created On: Jul 22, 2013
Last Review: Jul 10, 2014
Views: 
APPLIES TO:
Parallels Plesk Sitebuilder
Parallels SiteStudio
Service provider products licensing
Symptoms
You have a website and were told that one of the images on the website is unlicensed.
Cause
Websites created using Parallels SiteStudio or older versions of Parallels Plesk Sitebuiler (below 4.5) might contain unlicensed images that belong to Getty Images.
Resolution
If you are a website owner, please get in touch with your hosting provider. They should either remove the images in question, or discuss usage terms with the image owner."

The question of what to do pertained to whether or not to contact the host that provided the templates legal department as was suggested by Parallels since the people are not 100% sure if the image was in the template, and wondering if anyone else had dealt with or heard of this issue with Parallels templates, and the outcome.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Another Getty Letter Story
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 08:39:41 AM »
The MOST important thing here is being missed.. The OP stated that the site has a registered agent, if this is true, then Getty has NO case, and they did NOT follow the law as afforded by DMCA. The purpose of the registered agent is to afford safe harbor for this type of thing. They should have sent a request to the registered agent first and foremost. as long as the "owner" of the site did not upload the offending image, there may be a case of NO infringement. DMCA offers safe harbor IF the image is uploaded by a third party..IF the "son" is not affiliated with the company, this might be a good loop-hole....On the other hand Parrallel should step up to the plate, and take care of their customers, regardless.
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
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DavidVGoliath

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Re: Another Getty Letter Story
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 12:11:21 PM »
The MOST important thing here is being missed.. The OP stated that the site has a registered agent, if this is true, then Getty has NO case, and they did NOT follow the law as afforded by DMCA.

That's not always true; to enjoy the benefits of safe harbor protection, there is a strict protocol that must be adhered to regarding registered agents... I've had dealings with sites that, because they didn't adhere to the protocol as set out in 17 USC 512, they were wholly liable for infringements.

Beyond that, I've had cause to contact sites that were owned and hosted outside the US attempt to claim that they were protected by the DMCA. Sometimes this was down to a bald-faced attempt to avoid being liable under the laws in their own jurisdiction, other times they were merely misinformed as to exactly what the DMCA is.

Lastly - though I've never encountered this issue personally - a fellow photographer had discovered that a company had staff on payroll pretend to be third-party users uploading content to their "news" websites; they were effectively abusing their safe harbor status. All I know about that case is that it's ongoing and I'm not at liberty to divulge details that were shared privately with me, sorry.

Matthew Chan

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Re: Another Getty Letter Story
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2014, 03:44:36 PM »
We might need to start a new thread on this particular issue.  I am familiar with Parallels Plesk and have used it as many website owners/administrators have.  Thank you so much for sharing this.  As far as I know, this is new for ELI. You have done many people a great service as I am certain Google will index this and anyone who gets an extortion letter over the Parallels Plesk issue will find our discussion.

Anyone who faces this issue with Parallels Plesk needs to report their issue ASAP on ELI and let the ELI community do its thing.  I am absolutely convinced there will be a strong defense and the likelihood of a successful lawsuit is quite small.

When I get a chance, I will likely start a new thread for what I believe is a very important development.

Good job, Newbie Fan, for making this contribution.

I think you misunderstood me. Mainly the point was about KB Parallels and their admission of having sold templates with unlicensed Getty images. http://kb.parallels.com/en/116513
"Unlicensed images on the website
Article ID: 116513
Created On: Jul 22, 2013
Last Review: Jul 10, 2014
Views: 
APPLIES TO:
Parallels Plesk Sitebuilder
Parallels SiteStudio
Service provider products licensing
Symptoms
You have a website and were told that one of the images on the website is unlicensed.
Cause
Websites created using Parallels SiteStudio or older versions of Parallels Plesk Sitebuiler (below 4.5) might contain unlicensed images that belong to Getty Images.
Resolution
If you are a website owner, please get in touch with your hosting provider. They should either remove the images in question, or discuss usage terms with the image owner."

The question of what to do pertained to whether or not to contact the host that provided the templates legal department as was suggested by Parallels since the people are not 100% sure if the image was in the template, and wondering if anyone else had dealt with or heard of this issue with Parallels templates, and the outcome.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Another Getty Letter Story
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2014, 09:08:55 PM »
there was mention of paralels about 2 yrs back, some use ( can't remember) who was going back and forth with them..

DVG, I'm well aware of the criteria regarding DMCA, bottom line is if there is a registered agent, and it is potsed properly, that is the way Getty is supposed to contact them...but I digress, I'm not a lawyer...or copyright troll..
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
Robert Krausankas

I have a few friends around here..

DavidVGoliath

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Re: Another Getty Letter Story
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 07:35:41 AM »
bottom line is if there is a registered agent, and it is potsed properly, that is the way Getty is supposed to contact them

And therein is the unknown issue: whether the registered agent details were listed correctly. Let's look again at what the OP said in their first message

"Our friends have a very small business and yes are incorporated with a registered agent - as is required by their state"

All this means it that, if you searched for records pertaining to the company via the relevant business portal for the state they were incorporated in, you'd find contact details and a mailing address for whomever the business designated to receive service of process.

That doesn't mean that they also have automatic safe harbor protection under the DMCA; the exact same details would need to be both lodged with the Copyright Office and also displayed in full in a publicly accessible page of their website.

Unless the OP were to clarify as to whether the business did in fact have their details recorded and displayed correctly, then we simply don't know whether the business has exemption or not; this aside, there's a potentially fuzzier issue as to whether having DMCA safe harbor would apply in an instance where someone had been employed to design their website (and no, I'm not a lawyer either, so I'd have to ask one about this ;) )

Newbie Fan

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Re: Another Getty Letter Story
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2014, 05:50:58 PM »
Thanks Matt. I think having another thread for this is a great idea! Just to expound a bit more the unlicensed images according to Parallels on site are problematic in two products Parallels Plesk Sitebuilder AND Parallels SiteStudio.
Also here is a thread discussing it a tad on Parallel's site http://forum.parallels.com/showthread.php?261320-Getty-Images-Copyright-Infringement-Notice-from-SiteBuilder-Image

One of the more problematic issues with this is that many people and companies purchased the templates from their website host and not Parallels directly. Some of those hosts or resellers may no longer be in business and/or as in the case here are claiming they never got any notices from Parallels to warn their customers or at all.

Parallel's position is that they will not assist anyone that did not purchase from them directly. An alleged manager at Parallels stated that sometimes the problem arose because Parallel discontinued certain templates and therefore stopped paying licensing fees and in other instances they aren't really sure why the unlicensed images exist. The manager said he is also 100% certain the image was originally in the template. (Not sure why he said that but there it is) They claim they alerted all their customers. Sure doesn't look that way. Even if they did this explanation is really not acceptable as many of those sites I am quite sure are the recipients of the Getty letter due to this and in the USA as you already know the end user is responsible under the law.

All we know is that Parallels admits the issue in black and white:
"Symptoms
You have a website and were told that one of the images on the website is unlicensed.
Cause
Websites created using Parallels SiteStudio or older versions of Parallels Plesk Sitebuiler (below 4.5) might contain unlicensed images that belong to Getty Images."
Note they can't even spell Builder correctly.

Since the heavily accented overseas support also said they don't keep copies of the templates or images - IF that is correct not sure how this can be resolved fairly if they also don't keep copies of the licenses for the pics. They weren't sure if they have copies or records of the licenses or not.

 

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